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Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: kap
Date: September 15, 2010 08:18PM
[automobiles.honda.com]
Anyone here owns a Toyota Prius look-alike? How is it different in performance and gas mileage compared to a Toyota Prius?



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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: space-time
Date: September 15, 2010 08:24PM
40 city 43 highway for a hybrid $20k made in 2010

I get 37 city 40 highway for a civic $14k made in 2001

I would expect much more from a hybrid.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 15, 2010 08:28PM
It's the second-gen Insight. Not really related to the original Insight. It's cheaper than a Prius but isn't as thrifty.

[www.caranddriver.com]
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: September 15, 2010 08:31PM
Quote
space-time
40 city 43 highway for a hybrid $20k made in 2010

I get 37 city 40 highway for a civic $14k made in 2001

I would expect much more from a hybrid.

But you have to add politics into that equation smiling smiley




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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: space-time
Date: September 15, 2010 08:35PM
Quote
M A V I C
Quote
space-time
40 city 43 highway for a hybrid $20k made in 2010

I get 37 city 40 highway for a civic $14k made in 2001

I would expect much more from a hybrid.

But you have to add politics into that equation smiling smiley

yeah, about 6k worth of politics and 9 years later for 8% mileage
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: September 15, 2010 08:42PM
It's Prius wannabe. Not sure how they were able to practically copy the outside design of the Prius.
We'll take our 2010 Prius anyday at 50mpg.



Grateful11
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: GGD
Date: September 15, 2010 08:47PM
Quote
Grateful11
It's Prius wannabe. Not sure how they were able to practically copy the outside design of the Prius.
We'll take our 2010 Prius anyday at 50mpg.

The funny thing is that with Honda's first gen, they ran ads making fun of the Prius shape. "Who want's to drive a cheese wedge". Then they copied it.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 15, 2010 08:51PM
I haven't sat in one, but supposedly they're not as roomy as the current Prius; more like the first generation Prius.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: September 15, 2010 08:55PM
Quote
space-time
40 city 43 highway for a hybrid $20k made in 2010

I get 37 city 40 highway for a civic $14k made in 2001

I would expect much more from a hybrid.

But you are supporting the terrorists.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: space-time
Date: September 15, 2010 09:02PM
Quote
Dakota
Quote
space-time
40 city 43 highway for a hybrid $20k made in 2010

I get 37 city 40 highway for a civic $14k made in 2001

I would expect much more from a hybrid.

But you are supporting the terrorists.

But I drive less than most people.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: decay
Date: September 15, 2010 09:11PM
Quote
Dakota
Quote
space-time
40 city 43 highway for a hybrid $20k made in 2010

I get 37 city 40 highway for a civic $14k made in 2001

I would expect much more from a hybrid.

But you are supporting the terrorists.
BP & big petro like them? yep. smiling smiley



---
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 15, 2010 09:22PM
[www.insideline.com]
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: kap
Date: September 15, 2010 09:43PM
Quote
GGD
The funny thing is that with Honda's first gen, they ran ads making fun of the Prius shape. "Who want's to drive a cheese wedge". Then they copied it.
Profit talks?

"Skid pad: Lots of body roll and minimal damping make this a fun (crazy) ride on our makeshift skid pad. Inside wheel occasionally leaves the ground. This didn't happen with the Prius. Slalom: A little hairy in fast transitions, the Insight is controllable but it makes me realize why Toyota outfits the Prius with undefeatable stability control."
Keep that in mind when you do the pedal to the metal old fogey smiley



SoCal for now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2010 09:51PM by kap.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: September 15, 2010 10:23PM
The new Insight is based on a Fit, which gets pretty lousy mileage based on it's heritage. The 1994 Civic VX has a mileage rating of 39 city, 50 highway (2008 adjusted). Yeah the new one is a ULEV but still... I would love to see someone drop an Insight-type hybrid system into a VX and see what mileage it gets.



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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 15, 2010 10:48PM
Quote
space-time
Quote
M A V I C
Quote
space-time
40 city 43 highway for a hybrid $20k made in 2010

I get 37 city 40 highway for a civic $14k made in 2001

I would expect much more from a hybrid.

But you have to add politics into that equation smiling smiley

yeah, about 6k worth of politics and 9 years later for 8% mileage

How about a 1990 CIVIC CRX-HFi or a Geo Metro, both well over 50 mpg.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: michaelb
Date: September 16, 2010 09:37AM
How much of the difference in fuel efficiency between 1990 and today is additional safety systems, including weight?
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 16, 2010 10:34AM
I personally believe a huge chunk is added weight of all the options. You add power seats and power door locks and power windows, you add several hundred pounds easy. My '71 Buick without options was just under 3700#. Optioned as it is, its over 2 tons.

Now, in a drag racing scenario, it takes 10 extra horsepower to counteract adding 100 pounds (in the middle of the bell curve) So you can have fuel efficient cars that weigh nothing and have 60-80 HP engines that can still get out of their own way. And 10 pounds of rotating weight is like 40 pounds of static weight. So modern cars have alloy wheels to improve fuel economy, and they then charge you extra as a luxury or sport option!
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: kap
Date: September 16, 2010 11:06AM
Was not the Geo Metro's engine built by Toyota?



SoCal for now.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 16, 2010 11:19AM
Suzuki. There was a Sprint/Metro, a Pontiac Firefly, and a Suzuki Swift. Same car. My old GF's Sprint had a Suzuki plaque under the hood on the firewall.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: kap
Date: September 16, 2010 11:23AM
My mistake it was the Geo/Chevrolet Prizm, which essentially was the same as the Toyota Collola.



SoCal for now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2010 11:24AM by kap.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 16, 2010 11:28AM
Prizm/Corolla, correct

[editorial.autos.msn.com]

"Just as Americans have embraced obesity, the lowly Civic has gone from 2094 pounds in 1992 CX hatchback trim to 2751 pounds in 2007 sedan trim; the additional 657 pounds of girth in the '07 version will certainly make efficiency numbers plummet. Calculating a sedan versus sedan comparison reveals the 1992 edition to be 432 pounds lighter on the scales. "

So, adding 400+ pounds means you need @40 more horsepower just to get the same performance/acceleration. There goes your fuel economy. Now, granted, this is on the lower end of the bell curve, so maybe 30 would do it. Still, you get the point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2010 11:33AM by Racer X.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: AllGold
Date: September 16, 2010 11:30AM
Quote
michaelb
How much of the difference in fuel efficiency between 1990 and today is additional safety systems, including weight?

Pretty much all of it. Engine designs have become more efficient over the years so if it weren't for the added weight then cars would get better mileage. But overall, we're not willing to sacrifice the additional safety features.



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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 16, 2010 12:12PM
But, is it 400 pounds of safety gear, or 100 pounds of added safety, and 300 pounds of options?

I know how much loading a car with airbags will weigh, but what about the other 300 pounds? I know the bumpers weigh maybe 1/4 of what they did in the 70's, and they aren't anywhere near as strong now. You pull off the plastic fascia, and the steel underneath is a joke.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2010 12:13PM by Racer X.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: kap
Date: September 16, 2010 12:22PM
Quote
Racer X
I know the bumpers weigh maybe 1/4 of what they did in the 70's, and they aren't anywhere near as strong now. You pull off the plastic fascia, and the steel underneath is a joke.

Looks like steel but it functions like cheap aluminum big grin smiley



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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: September 16, 2010 01:29PM
The biggest issue I still content is MPG vs emissions and how boutique fuels play into it. My previous car was designed and built in Europe where they focus more on MPG (well, liters per 100KM...). In Germany, it got 27MPG. But because of the need to meet CA emission standards and run on boutique fuels in the US, they had to modify it and it only gets 21MPG with the same power rating. Same safety items on both.

The US needs to :
1. Decide if they're focusing on MPG or emission contents and
2. Standardize fuels so engineers can be more focused and meet #1




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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2010 01:29PM by M A V I C.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: raz
Date: September 16, 2010 01:45PM
What do mean by "boutique fuels"? Can anybody argue that getting rid of lead in gasoline (which Europe didn't formally ban until 2000 reference) is a bad thing?



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2010 01:45PM by raz.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 16, 2010 01:45PM
I suppose a better metric is emissions generated per mile driven. Its not fuel economy, but emissions economy.

The emissions on my Buicks don't matter. They don't use that much fuel on a per year basis to pollute much.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Dakota
Date: September 16, 2010 03:20PM
Don't give politicians ideas. They might come at us with a mileage tax.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: September 16, 2010 03:39PM
Quote
Dakota
Don't give politicians ideas. They might come at us with a mileage tax.

My city came up with a tax on hours worked. So the more hours you work, the more that has to be paid. Being essentially self employed I do a lot of work that doesn't make money, but I was forced to pay taxes on my hours worked anyway.




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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: September 16, 2010 03:44PM
Quote
raz
What do mean by "boutique fuels"? Can anybody argue that getting rid of lead in gasoline (which Europe didn't formally ban until 2000 reference) is a bad thing?

Boutique fuels are custom fuel mixtures that are chosen by local government like counties and I think sometimes cities too. If an engine could be designed to work on a handful of fuels, they'd be much more efficient. Instead, they must be designed to handle potentially hundreds of mixtures. Additionally, the mixtures are often chosen by people who have no clue as to the impact their choice will have on fuel efficiency.

When foreign automakers are forced to make their cars work with all the possible mixtures AND ensure that they meet all of the possible emissions laws wherever the cars may be registered, it makes the cars more expensive, increases maintenance costs and reduces fuel efficiency.




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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: raz
Date: September 16, 2010 04:19PM
thank you



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Re: Honda "Prius"?
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: September 17, 2010 11:56AM
Everyone in the U.S. is hostage to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats, namely California's Air Resources Board (CARB)

They are the ones primarily responsible for the lack of lean-burn passenger cars in the U.S. (gasoline or diesel)

Without their insane NOx standards, those of us here in the U.S. could today be driving many well-reviewed Euro diesel
models (e.g. Accord) and getting 30% better mileage for a lot less than the premium for a gasoline-electric hybrid.

Quote
M A V I C
The biggest issue I still content is MPG vs emissions and how boutique fuels play into it. My previous car was designed and built in Europe where they focus more on MPG
(well, liters per 100KM...). In Germany, it got 27MPG. But because of the need to meet CA emission standards and run on boutique fuels in the US, they had to modify it
and it only gets 21MPG with the same power rating. Same safety items on both.

The US needs to :
1. Decide if they're focusing on MPG or emission contents and
2. Standardize fuels so engineers can be more focused and meet #1



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2010 11:57AM by Bill in NC.
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