Poll

How long do you stop at the STOP sign?

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44 votes were received.

Dude, nothing ever stops. Electrons keep running around the nuclei, blood keeps flowing. Neurons fire signals when I see the hot chicks jogging on the sidewalk. Why should I stop?	2		5%
1 (one) ms. My wheels stop turning for 1 ms, but the body of the vehicle is still moving.	7		16%
0.5 s. Just enough to come to a “full stop”.	20		45%
2 seconds. Is that OK?	10		23%
5 seconds. I am not in a hurry.	3		7%
It depends. I am lucky if my car doesn’t stall when I come to a stop sign.	2		4%

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Let's say there is no traffic, you can see clearly both ways, but still you come to a stop SIGN, how long to you stop?

Again, I've taken to being a by-the-book guy. So, I go to extremes in stopping and such. Don't want any reason for cops to pull me over.

Long enough to shift into first gear......

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Aloha, Ken


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I count to two. A complete stop. No way I'm getting a ticket because I want to save .002 of a second by rolling through a stop sign.

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3 seconds is the law here in WA state. Even if you are taking a free right. Redlight cameras nail people for stopping too close to the intersection, not stopping completely, and not waiting a full 3 seconds. Sloppy driving is expensive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 07:13PM by Racer X.

Usually a full, complete stop...even in the middle of the night. With my luck, the time I don't will be the time there's a cruiser lurking somewhere. My son failed his first driving test for his license because he didn't stop "for 3 seconds" before proceeding. I know that he did in fact come to a complete stop because I was in the car with him during the exam. I wasn't even aware of that three-second rule.

A London lawyer runs a stop sign and gets pulled over by an Irish Garda.
He thinks that he is smarter than the cop because he is a London lawyer, from London, and is certain that he has a better education than any paddy cop. He decides to prove this to himself and have some fun at the Garda’s expense!!

Garda says,” License and registration, please.”

Lawyer says, “What for?”

Garda replies, “You didn’t come to a complete stop at the Stop sign.”

Lawyer says, “I slowed down, and no one was coming.”

Garda says, “You still didn’t come to a complete stop. License And registration, please.”

Lawyer says, “What’s the difference?”

Garda says, “The difference is, you have to come to complete stop, that’s the law. License and registration, now please!”

Lawyer says, “If you can show me the legal difference between “slow down” and “stop”, I’ll give you my license and registration and you give me the ticket. If not, you let me go and don’t give me the ticket.”

Garda says, “Sounds fair. Exit your vehicle, sir.”

The lawyer gets out.

All of a sudden, the Garda takes out his baton and starts beating the @#$%& out of the lawyer with it and says, “Do you want me to stop, or just slow down?”

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I am not aware of any minimum time period in my area, and long as your vehicle ceases to completely change position relative to the road below it then you are OK.

In SoCal STOP signs are considered as helpful hints or at best suggestions, hence the term "California Stop".

I wonder how much fuel would be saved if every Stop sign was replaced by a Yield sign. Granted there would probably be more crashes as those who now don't bother to stop for a Stop sign would probably disregard the Yield part of a Yield sign, but I bet the fuel savings would not be insignificant over the long haul.

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I grew up with roundabouts and so unless there is traffic I go without stopping. I'm used to making judgments about speed and distance. I don't need to be told how to be safe.
It probably makes economic sense not to stop unless I have to, as olnacl was pointing out. Yes it is illegal. Is it dangerous? Not necessarily. One can be perfectly legal and still be very dangerous, and one can be illegal and safe.

Another pet peeve- most people don't have a clue about who goes first when 4 cars are stopped at a 4-way junction. Some people will sit there for hours (10 seconds or more!) waiting for someone else to make the decision for them. I say let's be deciders! Take a stance. Stop stopping unless you have to.

edit- Sometimes I stop when there is no stop sign because in my opinion I cannot see enough of the road to either side of me to proceed without first making sure it is safe to do so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 08:11PM by Manlove.

How about if most intersections with stop signs were changed into roundabouts? Better traffic flow, better safety and better fuel savings.

in this part of PA, a Yield sign is interpreted as "speed up and force your way into the lane."

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Manlove
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Another pet peeve- most people don't have a clue about who goes first when 4 cars are stopped at a 4-way junction. Some people will sit there for hours (10 seconds or more!) waiting for someone else to make the decision for them. I say let's be deciders! Take a stance. Stop stopping unless you have to.
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What would you do at a 4-way stop sign if you were driving in Europe?

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space-time
What would you do at a 4-way stop sign if you were driving in Europe?

You would be very surprised to see one. There aren't any to speak of in most, perhaps all, of Europe. The 4-way or greater stop-signed intersections in most countries have been eliminated and replaced with roundabouts because roundabouts reduce accident rates and increase traffic flow significantly. In city planning, at least in England, they avoid installing 4-way intersections because of the safety and traffic flow issues. A 4-way stop intersection is pretty much the most dangerous type of intersection due to the many ways in which a head-on collision can occur, and the reliance on drivers needing to monitor traffic from several directions at once.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 08:43PM by davester.

What would you do at a 4-way stop sign if you were driving in Europe?

Good question. I live in the States now and have done for 15 years, so I'm buggered if I can remember! In London and Paris they subscribed to decay's maxim- go fast and blinkered, stay focused on your escape route and let nothing impede your progress. Beyond that I have no idea.
I suppose we relied on courtesy and common sense. People here always seem so surprised when I allow them to go before me.

Here's what wikipedia has to say, which upon reflection seems about right. I don't remember actual 4-way stops...anywhere.

"Stop signs are used globally. However, most countries see fewer of them than North America and South Africa, because all-way stops are never used and may even be legally prohibited.[8] In a majority of European countries including France, Spain and Italy, junctions without traffic lights or roundabouts are controlled by stop signs on minor roads and by white, yellow and black priority diamond signs the major road. In the UK, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, New Zealand and Australia, stop signs are restricted to situations wherein coming to a dead stop is actually necessary because of severely limited sight lines. At the vast majority of minor intersections in these countries, however, Give Way signs and/or equivalent road markings have now taken the place of stop signs. Finally, at the busier crossing streets, Give Way signs may be replaced by (mini) roundabouts, which also work on the give way (rather than stop) principle."
[en.wikipedia.org]

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davester

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space-time
What would you do at a 4-way stop sign if you were driving in Europe?

You would be very surprised to see one. There aren't any to speak of in most, perhaps all, of Europe. The 4-way or greater stop-signed intersections in most countries have been eliminated and replaced with roundabouts because roundabouts reduce accident rates and increase traffic flow significantly. In city planning, at least in England, they avoid installing 4-way intersections because of the safety and traffic flow issues. A 4-way stop intersection is pretty much the most dangerous type of intersection due to the many ways in which a head-on collision can occur, and the reliance on drivers needing to monitor traffic from several directions at once.

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3 seconds seems excessive. How long does it take to look both ways after coming to a stop?

STOP: Straight Through On Purpose



STOP: Spin Tires On Pavement

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Sam3
How about if most intersections with stop signs were changed into roundabouts? Better traffic flow, better safety and better fuel savings.

In New England I grew up with what they called rotaries (roundabouts on a smaller scale) and they led to more accidents per intersection encounter than did stop light intersections. You also have to factor in the attitude of local drivers, Boston area drivers are among the most aggressive in the country add to that narrow winding roads and you get an accident rate higher than the national mean.

Most if not all rotaries have been removed and replaced with traffic light intersections.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 11:03PM by RgrF.

I recall a trip to Boston hauling a trailer with 4-470 racing dinghies. I got into a roundabout and went around several times before someone finally let me move over to exit

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No all way stops in Europe is as much a myth as no big cars and pick-up trucks.

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RgrF
In New England I grew up with what they called rotaries (roundabouts on a smaller scale) and they led to more accidents per intersection encounter than did stop light intersections. You also have to factor in the attitude of local drivers, Boston area drivers are among the most aggressive in the country add to that narrow winding roads and you get an accident rate higher than the national mean.

Most if not all rotaries have been removed and replaced with traffic light intersections.

It is very common for americans to confuse rotaries with roundabouts, but they are completely different. Rotaries allow traffic to enter at full speed because the entering pathways are tangent to the circle. Also, rotaries allow some or all of the entering roads to have the right of way. This is the opposite of a roundabout, which has as its fundamental properties 1) non-tangent entry points that require the vehicles to slow down (which increases vehicle spacing and makes it easier for entering vehicles at other entry points to enter) and 2) all entering vehicles ;must yield to traffic in the circle. Rotaries are badly engineered and have high accident rates. Roundabouts are properly engineered and have low accident rates.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

I can smell the police. I stop fully wherever they are. Never been busted yet.

Long enough for the car body to stop as well. That's probably 1.x-2s, maybe.

Easy to lose an argument if your wheels stop for that ms or two, and the body keeps moving.

People who don't know the rules of the road are annoying at the very least, and dangerous otherwise.

Intersections are only one problem area. A lot of people misunderstand the "person on the right has the right-of-way rule. They forget, are ignorant, or just don't care that the CA rule applies only when two two vehicles arrive at the same time. It's very common to get to an intersection just ahead of a vehicle "on the right" and have them leap into it because they think you're taking their right of way.

Or the people to get their ahead of you, but you're the vehicle "on the right" and they stop and want to wave you through because they don't know it's really their right-of-way, and they should have proceeded.

So because so many don't know what to do, there's either a needless delay, or cars bump. Or worse.

Draconian traffic enforcement. I liiiiiike it.

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It's NOT traffic enforcement anymore, it's revenue enhancement.

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A German judge has shot to popularity after letting 42 speeding drivers off without charges in the last week because he thinks speed controls merely serve to fill the state's coffers rather than prevent accidents.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20101111/od_nm/us_germany_drivers_speeding_odd

The majority of California drivers don't seem to be in this thread. As a roundabout supporter, I find 4-way stops to be absolutely ridiculous and primitive traffic control devices, designed for frustration and fender benders. Also, as a bicyclist I find stop signs in general to be a PITA in that they steal all your inertia, plus the fact that cops will bust bike riders for sliding through at 1 mph, but they let cars routinely roll through at 3 to 4 mph. I've spent some time while bike riding paying attention to the car behaviour at stop signs and I can tell you with absolute certainty that at least 50% of the cars only slow down to a walking pace and don't stop. I think that the ought to nuke most stop signs and replace them with more logical yield intersections (including roundabouts), which is what happened in the UK when scientifically based traffic engineering took over for "we've always done it this way" engineering. Also, for the stop signs that remain, they should apply Idaho bicycle rules (i.e. bikes generally can treat stops as yield signs). Common sense needs to take over the stupid and primitive traffic laws we have here in California.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

As a truck driver I can tell you roundabouts suck. Especially when my load is oversize (up to 120 ft.) and going through the roundabout is the only way to get to where I need to go.

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Speedy
As a truck driver I can tell you roundabouts suck. Especially when my load is oversize (up to 120 ft.) and going through the roundabout is the only way to get to where I need to go.

Modern roundabouts generally have truck aprons that allow large trucks to cut across the center. They usually are slightly inclined and textured (think cobblestones) to keep the regular cars from doing that. Are you sure you're talking about roundabouts and not traffic circles or rotaries? I find that most people who complain about roundabouts have never actually seen a real roundabout.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 11:43AM by davester.