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PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: November 19, 2010 02:51PM
CNN has the news
"The FDA says the drug, propoxyphene, puts patients at risk of potentially serious or fatal heart rhythm abnormalities. Since 2009, 10 million people have been prescribed some form of the drug."
- - -
Cripes ! I took this once when I was in High School... in 1974 ! They only just figured this out ?

oh...
"Since 1978, the FDA has received two requests to remove propoxyphene from the market, but concluded that the benefits of propoxyphene for pain relief at recommended doses outweighed the safety risks."
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: November 19, 2010 03:04PM
Quote

"Since 1978, the FDA has received two requests to remove propoxyphene from the market, but concluded that the benefits of propoxyphene for pain relief at recommended doses outweighed the safety risks."

The bold part of the quote gives me a hunch that there's more to this story than a panicy headline... like the heart problems may only surface at elevated doses not normally prescribed? I don't KNOW that, but the phrasing makes me suspect.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: November 19, 2010 03:35PM
That's just great! I've been on it until 2 weeks ago for a long, long time 3-4 a day.



Grateful11
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Doc
Date: November 19, 2010 04:34PM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote

"Since 1978, the FDA has received two requests to remove propoxyphene from the market, but concluded that the benefits of propoxyphene for pain relief at recommended doses outweighed the safety risks."

The bold part of the quote gives me a hunch that there's more to this story than a panicy headline...

It's an open-secret that drug companies submit guidance to the FDA as part of the approval process, then have their salespeople tell physicians to do something altogether different ( "off-label marketing" ).*

During the Bush administration Congress passed several laws that make it very difficult to hold drug-makers liable for such frauds and the combination of an FDA instructed to fast-track drug approvals along with a pro-business Justice Department created an environment that encouraged it.

Even with their limited liability, it was such a feeding-frenzy that lots of drug companies are still going to be held accountable... eventually.

Obama's people are trying to catch up on the backlog now, so expect to see many more cases like this in the coming months.

1st hit on the subject in a Google search:
[www.biojobblog.com]

*Not a medical doctor, but still sickened by the tragic consequences of these practices.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 04:38PM by Doc.
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Buzz
Date: November 19, 2010 04:37PM
Thankfully there are other options...





Sometimes it is what it is...
and then there's times when it's really better.



==
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: josntme
Date: November 19, 2010 05:12PM
This is really a bummer.

I have been taking this twice daily for years for my neuropathy with no ill effects. I know the government would rather a person be in pain than give drugs to relieve it.

I hope my doctor has something to substitute, and if not I guess it's pain for the rest of my life.
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Buzz
Date: November 19, 2010 05:56PM
Quote
josntme
This is really a bummer.

I have been taking this twice daily for years for my neuropathy with no ill effects. I know the government would rather a person be in pain than give drugs to relieve it.

I hope my doctor has something to substitute, and if not I guess it's pain for the rest of my life.

Different strokes for different folks; I've got chronic pain from a bunch of neuro crud, and for whatever reason don't tolerate darvon/darvocet at all, so hydrocodone and oxycodone are my doc's maintenance meds of choice. Hydro for the regular routine, and oxy when the body gets crankier than usual. You'll find something to make it work. Keep the faith.



Sometimes it is what it is...
and then there's times when it's really better.



==
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: josntme
Date: November 19, 2010 07:18PM
Quote
Buzz
Quote
josntme
This is really a bummer.

I have been taking this twice daily for years for my neuropathy with no ill effects. I know the government would rather a person be in pain than give drugs to relieve it.

I hope my doctor has something to substitute, and if not I guess it's pain for the rest of my life.

Different strokes for different folks; I've got chronic pain from a bunch of neuro crud, and for whatever reason don't tolerate darvon/darvocet at all, so hydrocodone and oxycodone are my doc's maintenance meds of choice. Hydro for the regular routine, and oxy when the body gets crankier than usual. You'll find something to make it work. Keep the faith.

After surgery my Doctor had me on this and it made me hyper. Couldn't sleep and that's when I went to darvocet. I am now taking Neurontin twice daily and darvacet twice daily and some days I'm still in pain.

Oh well, I'll see what the doctor has to say on my next visit. And, thanks for the encouragement.
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Black
Date: November 19, 2010 08:50PM
Quote
josntme
Quote
Buzz
Quote
josntme
This is really a bummer.

I have been taking this twice daily for years for my neuropathy with no ill effects. I know the government would rather a person be in pain than give drugs to relieve it.

I hope my doctor has something to substitute, and if not I guess it's pain for the rest of my life.

Different strokes for different folks; I've got chronic pain from a bunch of neuro crud, and for whatever reason don't tolerate darvon/darvocet at all, so hydrocodone and oxycodone are my doc's maintenance meds of choice. Hydro for the regular routine, and oxy when the body gets crankier than usual. You'll find something to make it work. Keep the faith.

After surgery my Doctor had me on this and it made me hyper. Couldn't sleep and that's when I went to darvocet. I am now taking Neurontin twice daily and darvacet twice daily and some days I'm still in pain.

Oh well, I'll see what the doctor has to say on my next visit. And, thanks for the encouragement.

How much neurontin total?




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Black
Date: November 19, 2010 08:52PM
Quote
Buzz
Quote
josntme
This is really a bummer.

I have been taking this twice daily for years for my neuropathy with no ill effects. I know the government would rather a person be in pain than give drugs to relieve it.

I hope my doctor has something to substitute, and if not I guess it's pain for the rest of my life.

Different strokes for different folks; I've got chronic pain from a bunch of neuro crud, and for whatever reason don't tolerate darvon/darvocet at all, so hydrocodone and oxycodone are my doc's maintenance meds of choice. Hydro for the regular routine, and oxy when the body gets crankier than usual. You'll find something to make it work. Keep the faith.

Hence your screen name?
How does Hydrocodone help you for any sort of duration?
Didn't you build up a tolerance a long time ago?
I would guess it's a lot of work to keep your digestive system functional while on a steady dose as well.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: dochocson
Date: November 19, 2010 09:05PM
And there's the key issue that the majority of Darvocet's pain relieving effect comes from the acetaminophen. The propoxyphene is primarily a euphoric.
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Black
Date: November 19, 2010 10:21PM
Quote
dochocson
And there's the key issue that the majority of Darvocet's pain relieving effect comes from the acetaminophen. The propoxyphene is primarily a euphoric.

I have never in my life taken any over the counter medication for pain and noticed any difference . . .




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Buzz
Date: November 19, 2010 11:06PM
Quote
Black

Hence your screen name?
How does Hydrocodone help you for any sort of duration?
Didn't you build up a tolerance a long time ago?
I would guess it's a lot of work to keep your digestive system functional while on a steady dose as well.

nah, handle is from 1969... complained I didn't like middle name of 'Edwin' so dad asked what was better alternative during moon landing, so went w/ Buzz, a la Edwin 'Buzz' Aldrin... then met Aldrin 5 years later, when he was a regular customer at the camera/photo store I worked at, which was a few doors down the street from a bar he was an even more regular customer at.
The meds generally just allow for a little greater functionality; the neuro damage has limited my mobility, so I take just enough to regain whatever movement I can... never been a fan of meds, but neuro doc convinced me ten years ago it is better to take minimal meds prophylactically, than to wait for onset of greater than usual chronic pain. Get by w/ about 4 hours on active-ish days, and about 6 hours when couch potatoing.
Tolerance fluctuates, I try to cut down whenever possible, and heat and cold affect me too, so I use bad weather days to take it easy physically and med-wise. FWIW, the prophylactic regimen works as far as pain control; it takes way more to deal w/ pain if I wait too long before dealing w/ it, so goal is to keep consumption as low as possible. Breakthrough pain begets supplement of 5 to 10mg of oxy, usually no more than twice, to quell an episode.
Digestive system is aided w/ fiber powder in twice daily glasses of juice, plus a couple of fiber tabs a few times a day. I drink a lot of fluids, primarily water and iced tea in addition to the juice, and an occasional sports drink. It's more of a routine than work at this point.
FWIW#2, the med-aided functionality tops out pretty quick, so taking more hydrocodone only goes toward the pain, and I'm used to dealing w/ a fair bit of it, so I don't look to knock out all the pain, because it's not worth it to me; I'd rather just gain whatever minimal functionality I can, and save the meds for the times the pain really ramps up. Contrary to the screen name, I never take enough to get "buzzed".

As dochocson notes, propoxyphene is primarily a euphoric, and for whatever it didn't agree w/me, (nor did neurontin, but in a different way); josntme seems to have the reverse reactions to some of the available meds, which is why I originally said "different strokes for different folks", alluding to people reacting differently to various meds. I hope josntme finds a reliable replacement for propoxyphene.



Sometimes it is what it is...
and then there's times when it's really better.



==
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: November 20, 2010 06:09AM
I was recently put on Nucynta which is a fairly new med for moderate to severe pain and supposedly
may help with the nerve damage I have in my left leg. So far I can't see that it's helping much with
the chronic back pain but it seems that it may be helping some with the nerve damage. It hasn't
affected my bowel movements much but I see an increase in fatigue and sleepiness, I can fall sleep
at the drop of a hat.

Monday I'm scheduled for a different type of spinal injection than I've had in the past, a caudal injection.



Grateful11
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: mjgkramer
Date: November 20, 2010 08:09AM
In May, 2009, I had open heart surgery for an aortic valve replacement and triple bypass and they put me on propoxyphene for pain. I almost immediately developed what they called post-operative psychosis - imagining they were trying to steal my organs and attacking the staff with the clean-up person's broom. They called my wife to come and help calm me down and I thought they were wanting to steal her organs too I am not a violent person so this was very out of character for me. I also had hallucinations, seeing black gritty stuff crawling all over the toilet when I used it and the TV picture looking like it was made up of vertically traveling colored bubbles.

The hospital staff did not know what was causing all this, but as the pain subsided they stopped giving me propoxyphene and the hallucinations gradually stopped. I returned home after 10 days in the hospital, the stay lengthened a few days because of my "problem". The pain started bothering me a bit, so got a prescription for more propoxyphene. The hallucinations started again as soon as I took it, but fortunately I did not attack any one. Realizing what caused the hallucinations to start again i stopped taking it and they gradually went away.

A month ago I had surgery to remove a blockage in my left carotid. I made sure they did not give me propoxyphene.
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: November 20, 2010 11:18AM
The FDA directive also says that people do not have to stop taking the drug:

"We recommend to physicians stop prescribing the drugs. As for patients, do not stop taking it, but we urge you to contact your health care professional. Do not delay," said Gerald Dal Pan, director of the FDA's Office of Surveillance and Epidemiology.

So it does appear to be generally safe at recommended dosage. I already have an arrhythmia controlled with drugs and take Darvocet occasionally for back pain. I haven't had any problem at all, even taking a pill three times a day for ten days or so. But I don't take a handful of the stuff.

Darvocet has been far better for me than Tramadol, which thinned my blood to a dangerous level. I am sorry it's being taken off the market. I will hoard the pills I have left.

There are some people who can't be trusted to take a drug according to the doctor's directions. I don't know what you do about them, but you shouldn't take a good drug off the market because of their foolishness.
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: kj
Date: November 20, 2010 01:49PM
I was kind of curious, since I thought darvocet, etc., was just another "codeine" (which it's not), so I looked around, and this article seemed to explain pretty clearly what the issues are:

[www.doitnow.org]

Unless we are going to ignore the science, it doesn't appear to be a particularly effective med anyway. It also explains why overdoses aren't necessarily due to "foolishness". All this is assuming the info in the article is accurate, of course. kj.
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: November 22, 2010 09:42AM
Here's a quote from the article you are citing:

"For one thing, the gap between a therapeutic dose and an overdose is small. This margin of safety is so slight, in fact, that as little as four times the standard dose can trigger a dangerous slowing of breathing and heart rate. Six times a therapeutic dose can cause seizures and symptoms of toxic psychosis."

Four times the standard dose? Six times the therapeutic dose? That's foolishness. That is taking the stuff by the handful. If the drug's not working for you, then ask for another one, but don't sit there and think, "Hmm. One pill didn't work. Four will!" That's insanity.
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Re: PSA: Taking Darvocet or Darvon ? It's off the market... call your doctor
Posted by: kj
Date: November 22, 2010 08:10PM
I think it's foolish to take an addictive narcotic opiate drug that offers the same or less pain relief as two aspirin. And I think it's foolish to prescribe it.

The people who exercise poor judgement by taking too much would be a worthwhile sacrifice if the drug were super effective. Personally, I don't see the wisdom in taking or prescribing any opiate-based narcotic over the long-haul, but if you're going to take one, it might as well kick some butt. It doesn't look like Darvocet or Darvon do for the majority of people who take it. kj.
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