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The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Keef
Date: December 11, 2005 08:24PM
in another thread, iaJim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some people over there seem to be really put off
> by this place. They see it as some sort of war to
> destroy DM that was started by Larry. rgG has
> posted the right story, but you know how those
> things go.

When a bunch of folks jumped ship to AppleSwitcher the same nonsense was said about Matt, AppleSwitcher's owner. AppleSwitcher had existed for some time before the exodus. It was also stated that everyone who posts over at AS had been banned from DealMac – also not true, I am not banned from DM – my account there is still active. This is true of many others as well, mick e, bfd, N-OS X-tasy!, etc.

Now we're beginning to hear the same kind of lies and false accusations about THIS forum over at DealMac. It's a cycle. Have no doubt, the folks who abandoned DM for this place will soon be labeled as "banned" "troublemakers" whose "bad behavior" got them expelled from DM – in fact, it's already started. The good members who left, i.e., the majority, will unfairly get lumped in with the bad members who were actually the troublemakers, the strokes intentionally painted with the widest brush. The truth won't matter once the accusations begin to fly – not to mention the fact that, just like in the case of AppleSwitcher, we have already begun to see any defense, link or truthful message about this forum DELETED from the DealMac forum. DealMac WANTS people to believe the lies about Larry and this forum, and, much like in the case of AppleSwitcher, will delete any message that offers an opposing (read: truthful) view of the new forum.

Of course, it's likely that some here will object to my defense of AppleSwitcher, saying that it's filled solely with troublemakers. I expect this, it just shows that the re-writing of history tactic of DM works, much as it will work THIS time. Just remember, the same reasons that caused you to jump ship from DM and end up here are the EXACT SAME REASONS that some of us others jumped ship to AppleSwitcher. Just a thought, for those misguided souls who still wish to malign every cool person who ever jumped to AS. Some of us just got sick of the DM antics a bit sooner.

In short, you are all the new "black sheep" of DealMac. Truth be damned.

~





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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: December 11, 2005 08:28PM
Can't we simply enjoy this forum without maligning the other one? I haven't read much over there that talks about "troublemakers" besides Tom Cruise, who went over the top in my opinion.

I think it's possible to express a preference without rubbing the less preferred's nose in it. If we buy our Mac gear at several different stores and sites, why can't we simply enjoy different forums for different reasons, all at the same time?
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: December 11, 2005 08:32PM
>
> Just remember, the same reasons that caused you to jump ship from DM and end up here are the
>EXACT SAME REASONS that some of us others jumped ship to AppleSwitcher
>


You guys didn't like the format :-?






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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: December 11, 2005 08:34PM
There's always someone who just wants to stir the poo, Gute...





Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: wurm
Date: December 11, 2005 08:35PM
I for one, am looking forward to seeing Keef's animated gifs on a more regular basis. They were usually worth lurking over at AS on occasion.:-)

And yeah, what Gutenberg said.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: ArtP
Date: December 11, 2005 08:36PM
Keef wrote:

>In short, you are all the new "black sheep" of DealMac. Truth be damned

How come I gotta be a "black sheep" ?

It's just the man trying to hold me back...


: )
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: WHiiP
Date: December 11, 2005 08:39PM
lafinfil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Just remember, the same reasons that caused
> you to jump ship from DM and end up here are the
> >EXACT SAME REASONS that some of us others
> jumped ship to AppleSwitcher
> >
>
>
> You guys didn't like the format :-?





I have to agree with fil . . . NOT even close to the exact same reasons.

But, in the end, an exodus is still just that... an exodus. Compelled for DIFFERENT reasons . . . some forced, some not . . .

Enjoy this one. And try growing up some while you are at it!!!!!!!!


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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: rgG
Date: December 11, 2005 08:44PM
Hey ArtP, I heard about a good deal on some rotisserie chicken, too. ;)





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: December 11, 2005 08:46PM
LOL Art :-D



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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Keef
Date: December 11, 2005 08:48PM
1. I did not "malign" DealMac. I simply pointed out, factually and truthfully, the type of thing they are doing to Larry.

2. It wasn't the format, 'fil. It was about people getting banned for no reason, like what just happened to Larry. This has been discussed here, by Larry himself, who got banned for NO reason whatsoever. N-OS X-tasy! got banned simply for mentioning this forum.

Does anyone really believe that DM has never acted this way towards anyone before?

3. No "stirring of the poo", Paul. It's what DealMac is doing, and these boards are chock full of messages about it. Even a cursory overview of this forum reveals the way Larry has been treated by DM.

4. WHiiP, see number 2 in this list.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Otto Boners
Date: December 11, 2005 08:57PM
My father used to own a camera store in the Bronx.

Weegee used to come in and buy film there all the time.

One day, the latest technological miracle arrived at the store...a black and white Polaroid camera.

Weegee wanted to try it, so he took a picture of my father, then handed my father the camera, who put me on Weegee's lap (a baby), and my father snapped a picture.

I'm sitting in his lap, holding his unlit cigar.

My brother has the photo somewhere, he claims not have lost it.

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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: December 11, 2005 08:58PM
. . .I have always felt that Tom Cruise tends to go over the top. . .quite often. . .

winking smiley
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: OWC Larry
Date: December 11, 2005 09:01PM
I might add - OWC Jamie's account was deactivated today from their forum as well. Looks like being an OWC employee is grounds for termination.

His last post - if it is still there - was answering a user's tech question.

Again - no notice, etc. Just gone.

Really uncool having already experienced this first hand.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: December 11, 2005 09:02PM
That photo would be priceless Otto

I realized I forgot to add the link to the pic [museum.icp.org]





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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: December 11, 2005 09:17PM
That is a shame. . .I had him post a link this morning that was very helpful. . .

I just don't get it. . .sigh. . .
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Keef
Date: December 11, 2005 09:25PM
OWC Larry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I might add - OWC Jamie's account was deactivated
> today from their forum as well. Looks like being
> an OWC employee is grounds for termination.
>
> His last post - if it is still there - was
> answering a user's tech question.
>
> Again - no notice, etc. Just gone.
>
> Really uncool having already experienced this
> first hand.

Thanks for adding that, Larry. Sorry about you and Jamie, that's just ludicrous.

My initial post was made simply to point out that the same kind of totally uncalled-for behavior that Larry has been subjected to has been used in the past by DM, against others equally innocent. Some of those people went to AppleSwitcher.

For those who want to discount Larry's experience (and the experiences of MANY others), that's fine, it's your choice. But the truth remains: DM has done this type of thing many times before, and as the cases of Larry and Jamie show, they're still doing it.

If you want to believe that everyone at AppleSwitcher is some kind of monster, go ahead. But the actual fact is, a lot of the very coolest, funniest and most likable DM members post at AS. Jumping to another forum does not equal being some kind of "bad guy/girl", any more than you being here to read this makes YOU some kind of bad guy.

Transcend the propaganda.

~ k

•


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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Keef
Date: December 11, 2005 09:26PM
Oh, and thanks, wurm! I'll try to be respectful of people's bandwidth!

~ k
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: PeterB
Date: December 11, 2005 09:37PM
Posted this to another thread...

I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to participate in both forums. After all, there is more than one flavor of Coke...

And just to make the point: when AS was announced, I went over there to check it out. I didn't care for it... far too nasty for my tastes. (To carry the analogy: it was like drinking Pepsi that had been sitting around far too long and had gotten moldy, after a lifetime of drinking Coke.)

The moral: to each his/her own.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: wurm
Date: December 11, 2005 09:55PM
Keef Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, and thanks, wurm! I'll try to be respectful of
> people's bandwidth!
>
> ~ k

Hey, I think my one and only attempt at an animated gif is still connected to my few posts over at AS. I tried it using your instructions. I only wish the quality was better. I don't think your gifs were ever a bandwidth problem. As for Jezy's birthdays pics, that's another story. Mind you, I'm not complaining about them and there is fair warning. . :-)

Back to the subject of this thread. I think 'fil's point was (and I must agree) that the genesis for this forum was based on the format changing. The animosity toward dealmac was compounded then by the subsequent banning of folks who were only trying to spread the word. In constrast, I was under the impression that the migration to AS was largely due to the banning of some because of a desire to keep "spirited" discussions going and take the gloves off.

Whatever the case, here's hoping you stick around.


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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: jimbrady
Date: December 11, 2005 10:14PM
There was ABSOLUTELY a LOT of uncalled-for mean mischaracterization of people who left or were purged from DM in 2004.

I stayed there because I didn't feel like AS filled my needs (not enough traffic interested in solving tech issues), but there was noticeably less fun to be had there after the purge.

I made a point of posting to EVERY thread I saw where unfair/deluded statements were being made about the creative and funny friends we had lost.

Now there's this place, and I'm very pleased, but Keef is entirely right about the coming construction of a post-purge-2005 DM fantasy reality. There's no doubt.



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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: December 11, 2005 10:32PM
Hey!

Don't be stirring "poo" and forget that I, (THE Poo!) got dumped COMPLETELY (I was the first casualty to my knowledge) because I was letting people know about the place via PM and HL.

I have a pretty good feeling I know the path which caused my deletion. I never posted publically about this forum over there.

I went back to find my account deleted and even the 10,000th post/thread was removed - (as if I that particular thread was important - rather than the joke about "poo" I created instead!). It wasn't that particular post that had meaning. It was that I had a collective of 10k. But after that one, I had stopped anyway. I was only there to talk to people via PM.

What bugs me is that he left my others posts there. If I could, I'd take them all the posts out. If I don't belong, then neither do the posts I made.

I'm very pleased Larry put this place together. I'll visit the other two (and A/S has evolved - as is to be expected, and so will Tempe's), but here is where I'm most comfy.



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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Jack D.
Date: December 11, 2005 10:36PM
OWC Larry, maybe you could do what many others have done and reregister at Dealmac forum with a new nick. Maybe get a few plugs in for this great new forum before you got banned again...

Let's see, what would be a good new nick...oh, how about SmallDog Don? winking smiley


- Jack D.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: December 11, 2005 10:49PM
Jack,

I don't think that is the high road to take. This forum isn't about $$$. It's about community.

Could it be about $$$? Of course. And I for one hope that it does generate revenue, because maintaining it for OUR convenience is asking a bit much!

The place has the critical mass it needed to grow. And while PMing people played a part, a bigger role was played by the decisions over there which bothered some on principle, and others simply because the migration had begun, and like a new club in town, this one brought people back out of the woodwork.

At some point I hope that OWC links to the forum from the online store - that will fuel member growth and all of us can make new virtual (and occasionally real) friends.

With this in mind, it is a reason to remember our ettiquette here. With direct links from the store, and/or mention of it in magazine ads, etc., "the world will be watching" - and the animosity some of us generated in days past would reflect badly on the "gift" we have here.

I'm hoping that one day, with so many other outlets for things of that sort, that the "Rant" section simply vanishes.

Look at the past 3 days. The desire to say hello, make peace with old adversaries, and all the other warm/fuzzy stuff has been on the minds of most of the people here.

As someone said in a post yesterday.... next stop --- we bring peace in the Middle East!

smiling smiley
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Jack D.
Date: December 11, 2005 11:07PM
Jimmypoo, it was said in jest. You can relax, I'm not suggesting Larry actually do this but it would be funny to get one of his competitors banned no?



- Jack D.




New tasteless sig coming soon!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2005 09:50AM by Jack D..
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: December 11, 2005 11:16PM
Jack...

Sorry! I didn't even see that line about Don! I read the first part, and my alarm went off.

I could be wrong.... but I'll bet SDD knows a bit about what's going on! He's a $$$ player too. I wonder how much of his offerings will be affected in the long run?

You know.... every retailer can't have every sale. But there is plenty of money to go around. I've never ordered from SD, but everyone has nice things to say about them as well, for the most part, just like with Larry, although I've not seen the involvement online to solve problems like OWC provides, which is what sold me to make the occasional purchase with Larry instead.

Once I get my welcome packet - with the 75/90/100% Off coupon (at OWC) for being a MacResource Forum Member, I'll be swimming in Mac stuff!

(you people better not be pulling my leg about these coupons!)
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Jack D.
Date: December 11, 2005 11:27PM
Jimmypoo, no problem. I'm relaxed, I'm home. It's kinda nice here...



- Jack D.




New tasteless sig coming soon!
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: mick e
Date: December 11, 2005 11:27PM
This is an excellent thread Keef. Thanks for posting it. The points you have made are absolutely spot-on, and long overdue.






Unpaid Social Liaison
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: mikebw
Date: December 12, 2005 12:10AM
So what about these coupons? I didn't get the memo.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: December 12, 2005 12:48AM
Seconded (or thirded or whatever it is up to now), mick e.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: h'
Date: December 12, 2005 12:54AM
:-)

lafinfil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Just remember, the same reasons that caused
> you to jump ship from DM and end up here are the
> >EXACT SAME REASONS that some of us others
> jumped ship to AppleSwitcher
> >
>
>
> You guys didn't like the format :-?







I suffer from the same sensitivity that you do. A few nuggets of wisdom were shared with me and I'm "trying" to incorporate them into my life. First, remember that nobody can hurt your feelings unless you let them. You can always reject what is being forced on you emotionally.
Second, nothing changes unless you change it. If you don't want the behavior to be repeated then you need to take action. Otherwise the kid has learned that his behavior is the way to get things done, because everyone lets him get away with it.
In the meantime I sympathize because I've been there.
-beerman
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: RgrF
Date: December 12, 2005 01:14AM
I was part of the DM purge a couple years ago and although I could have I never did go back. The whole concept of vanishing posts (and posters) was and still is over the top for me.

After 2 years at AppleSwitcher I'm not sure I'm still fit for human companionship, but time will tell. I also think it would be a good idea to leave old feuds back at the other forums, we have a band spanking new forum and can develop new and hopefully more interesting feuds. (j/k folks)

Anyway thanks for this Larry.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 12, 2005 01:49AM
Keef Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
N-OS X-tasy! got banned simply for mentioning this forum.

Just a slight correction, Keef: I was banned for mentioning tempe's forum, not this one. But it is true that was the extent of my offense, and everything else you said is spot on.

An update, for anyone who's interested: I PM'd Brian last night to request that he delete my account. Instead, as of today it has been reactivated. Just an indication of the strangeness currently afoot there.



It is what it is.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: jqeisberg
Date: December 12, 2005 05:38AM
I lurked Dealmac for a very long time and observed two conditions;
1) poor executive decisions
2) the slippery slope pressure from the ‘Professional Nice Guys.’

PNG’s are those guys who want to be liked and want everybody in a forum to think like themselves. The PNG motto is DON’T ROCK THE SHIP. Moon was pressured by this group and the slope he put his forum on because of them bottomed out with the fascistic out-of-the-blue banning of some of the posters for relatively miniscule offenses.

By any definition, a forum needs a free exchange of ideas in order to reach a semblance of the truth, which is the purpose of a forum. Any deviation from this formula serves to weaken the forum.

It is true that Appleswitcher is not everybody’s cup of tea, but pony up the truth on an issue and by and large you will get respect. Be a fool and you will get burned. As Truman often said, “If you can’t stand the heat in the kitchen etc etc.”

Anyway, good luck with the forum, Larry.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Keef
Date: December 12, 2005 06:11AM
Thanks for the kind words mick e (and vikm)!

jimbrady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was ABSOLUTELY a LOT of uncalled-for mean
> mischaracterization of people who left or were
> purged from DM in 2004.
>
> I made a point of posting to EVERY thread I saw
> where unfair/deluded statements were being made
> about the creative and funny friends we had lost.
>
> Now there's this place, and I'm very pleased, but
> Keef is entirely right about the coming
> construction of a post-purge-2005 DM fantasy
> reality. There's no doubt.
>
> *********************************

Thanks for sticking up for the good folks who jumped ship, Jim!

BTW, I just received this message via PM here:

(name deleted for privacy) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reading your post. I somewhat agree.
>
> It seems to me as though dealmac is trying to turn
> us all against each other.
>
> They want others to think we're evil in an attempt
> to try to justify it all.
>
> I want to show others the light.

It's weird – they do seem as though they want to separate the "faithful" from the "bad".

I was never a flame-warrior or fighter over at DM. I never once got warned about my behavior, and to the best of my knowledge, never made any enemies there. But I grew tired of the heavy-handed knee-jerk reactions. Once I posted a thread over at DealMac asking about links to good photography. Lots of people responded with great links, about 10, IIRC. I didn't have the time to visit them all at once, so I bookmarked the thread. The last response I saw was where someone made some crack about Bush or Clinton, I honestly can't remember which.

When I went back to visit the thread it was gone. The whole thing had been yanked, apparently because of the political crack. I posted a thread politely asking why the whole thread was yanked, and not just the offending post. DealMac's response? They yanked that thread, too. I sent a PM to Brian. It went unanswered.

Needless to say, I wasn't really pleased with a forum where one response in an otherwise perfectly civil thread could get the helpful contributions of many good posters vanished. From that point on I largely moved over to AppleSwitcher.

THAT is the reason I moved – not because I was a "bad guy" or a "troublemaker" – not because I was banned (I wasn't) – not because I wanted to discuss politics – not because of any hang-up with Brian or DealMac. I just didn't want to write something out just to have it vanished because some mod was too lazy just to edit a single post, and was too trigger happy with the DELETE button. Many others moved to AppleSwitcher for very similar reasons. Of course if you weren't reading AS you would never have known this – threads that would mention this over at DM would get instantly yanked.

I know some of you don't like AS, that's fine. I for one welcome alternatives. I am certainly hoping that THIS forum becomes yet another alternative. I wish Larry all the best in his endeavor and offer my thanks to him for providing a lifeboat to what is obviously a sinking ship, even if that was not the intention behind it's creation.

Thanks, Larry.

~ k

•



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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: Bob Weiner
Date: December 12, 2005 06:52AM
hi guys:

I'm back - and I like the ol' look and feel of these forums. smiling smiley




The PC Weenies Cartoon
"If you're in IT, you'll get it."
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: WHiiP
Date: December 12, 2005 07:40AM
"We" were wondering where you were . . .





Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: HeyDude
Date: December 12, 2005 01:57PM
I am very happy to say I never knew about AS before now. I don't plan on ever going there.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: SteveO
Date: December 12, 2005 05:38PM
Ditto mick e on Keef's thread here.
Right on, Keef. Right on.
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Re: The "Black Sheep" of DealMac
Posted by: SteveJobs
Date: February 21, 2007 01:49PM
.



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