I have always said I don't think I can work there. Recruiter contacted me with several job openings. I have a hard time saying no...

This gig doesn't seem all that exciting. I've got a final interview with another company early next week. A final phone interview with a company tomorrow... and a few other gigs in the works as well.

Just can't see myself working for Microsoft. It pays about $20k/yr over what my ideal budget (not dream budget) is. I guess if they make me an offer I can at least use it as leverage with other companies.

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That's a tough one. There is a culture within the culture. I assume you won't be on/in the Mac side?

I have done a number of usability studies with engineers on the Mac side and I get knowing head nods when I express my frustration with the Windows side. I truly get the impression that when I do a mac usability study the engineers and contractors are genuinely interested in my input, criticisms and all. The Office 2008 PP template debacle is one of them.

The XP Alpha test showed me they didn't really care if anyone knew they were ripping off their competition. Been more than 5 years, so I can say that.

Perhaps the positive side is it will be a good practice interview. Naturally if you are hired for the windblows side of their company I will be inclined to put you on ignore *(:>* Just joking
I wish you all the success you can make happen. I would politely counsel that if you can find
something that is part of your own wheelhouse of beliefs, standards and mojo you will be happier
for a longer period of time perhaps.
Rudie*(:>*

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"There is a fine line between a rut and a groove"
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"I got to that part and I knew there was going to be some weapons grade stupid to follow"Lux Interior
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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland

Best of luck, it is your future. You never know how life will turn out. Have some of your own questions that will give you some insight into specific areas of your interests and beliefs.

My only concern with MS is whether you will be an employee with full benefits, or, an independent contractor with no benefits. Be wise.

---

Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace

I wouldn't count them out prior to the interview. Going into it with some healthy skepticism is good, but rather than allow that to manifest as indifference (which will waste everyone's time) turn that into some thoughtful questions that address your concerns.

And then take their extra $20K/year.

I think that the people you work with will determine your happiness more than the corporation.

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MAVIC, good luck to ALL these interviews. Just out of curiosity, what is the gap between your dream budget and ideal budget? I guess you meant salary instead of budget, did you?

Quote
Racer X
That's a tough one. There is a culture within the culture. I assume you won't be on/in the Mac side?

There is no Mac side anymore. It was absorbed into the MS Office division.

The people I know who work for MS all love working there. There are lots of in-house opportunities to move around and work with different divisions, and the company (despite what we tend to say here) is strong and treats their employees well.

Good luck ! Almost any opportunity is a good one (excepting the sketchy opportunities from the people handing around the bust station)

Condolences on considering the Dark Side.

Good luck!

Just think, you might have a chance to ride Microsoft down into the ground. And don't mention their security chased you away once.

---

in tha 510.

Say buh-bye to your iPhone
But these days a job's a job....

-mj

I have a friend who worked for microsoft for about a year. The money was good and the company provided many perks. What he didn't like was the mandatory overtime and mandatory employee participation in after hours social events. He wanted to work 8-5 and that's just not how microsoft operates. At least not in the area that he worked. The after hours events tended to be quite nice, dinner on boat rides etc, but he just wasn't into hanging out with his coworkers after work.

if you do get in, I'm sending you my friend's name to get him in, too. he's been a contractor for MS for many years and would love to get in (he's a marketing/promotions guy)

I wish you a good interview and even better wisdom. Enjoy yourself - there's no reason not to.

Good luck whatever you choose. My advise: stability in an employer today is worth at least $10K in salary differences. If they are offering $20K over your normal expectation, the job is worth serious consideration.

Obviously what was said above about contractor vs employee is very important.

---

JoeM

"If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, ....”

Quote
lazydays
mandatory employee participation in after hours social events.

Gah!? I hate mandatory team building nonsense. Sorry, I'm in for the intrinsic value of the work, I don't even have to like you to get crap done. Yuck. Your friend seems wise.

Quote
silvarios

Quote
lazydays
mandatory employee participation in after hours social events.

Gah!? I hate mandatory team building nonsense. Sorry, I'm in for the intrinsic value of the work, I don't even have to like you to get crap done. Yuck. Your friend seems wise.

Yeah, if it's mandatory then it's not after-hours. They are effectively extending the workday. Not that it can't be fun but it sure doesn't sound that way.

I think my skin would light on fire if I got anywhere near a Microsoft office. The software version is ok, just the building version is a different story.

Jeff

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Quote
lazydays
I have a friend who worked for microsoft for about a year. The money was good and the company provided many perks. What he didn't like was the mandatory overtime and mandatory employee participation in after hours social events. He wanted to work 8-5 and that's just not how microsoft operates. At least not in the area that he worked. The after hours events tended to be quite nice, dinner on boat rides etc, but he just wasn't into hanging out with his coworkers after work.

That would annoy the heck out of me. Working for a company shouldn't be like joining a cult.

Be wary of accepting stock options in liu of salary.

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Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. — Oscar Wilde

Just remember: Man hole covers are round because they can't fall into the hole no matter how you try.

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Nothing to see here, move along.

This is with one of their websites.

>> Just out of curiosity, what is the gap between your dream budget and ideal budget? I guess you meant salary instead of budget, did you?

Don't have a "dream budget" We set the budget first, then the salary has to fit that. So the budget is our focus, that's why I said " ideal budget".

>>The people I know who work for MS all love working there.

Interesting because I can't think of anyone I know who's worked there for a while that likes it there. One person has been there for 22 years and finds his job now is mostly dealing with office politics instead of reality. Another gave up on MS's statements of trying to build more secure software after they never actually did that and continued to do stuff like prevent developers from logging security bugs - yeah, those numbers where they say they're getting better are largely because they're refusing to document as much as they used to. If you don't collect the data, then you can cite the reduction of it and claim "progress."

I don't find any differences between FTE and contractor as far as stability goes.

>>He wanted to work 8-5 and that's just not how microsoft operates.

Each manager can pick how they want their employees to work. Right now MS is actually trying to get people to work from home more, but some managers are resistant to that. And you can get hired on being allowed to work remotely, and if you get a new manager who doesn't want you to, you have no recourse.

Alas, the interview went okay. I tried to keep a positive attitude that even though I'm looking at six other job opps, it's possible none of them pan out and this might be my only option. Turns out I actually know someone who used to work in this group and she said it's a pretty good team. That said, I'm not thrilled about the work. ~25 minute commute by car... though that was better than the ~45 minute commute to Amazon by bus (parking there was around $20/day.) Those times are each way.

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A 25 minute commute by car is better than a 45 minute commute by bus?

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Quote
Black
A 25 minute commute by car is better than a 45 minute commute by bus?

For sure. Each way, that's 50 minutes lost commuting vs 90 minutes lost. Would much rather have the extra 40 minutes with family or doing something.

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and that's 40 minutes EVERY DAY. That really adds up.

Can you accomplish anything while driving those 25 minutes? At least on the bus, you can read, safely listen to music, etc.

Quote
ka jowct
Can you accomplish anything while driving those 25 minutes? At least on the bus, you can read, safely listen to music, etc.

I find listening to music safer in a car than on the bus.

But I can't really do much productive while riding the bus... especially while standing up. I did surf forums a bit when I rode the bus, but really there's nothing I can do on the bus that's very important. And based on the fact one day the bus driver started driving before everyone was off the bus and I dislocated my shoulder, a car is much safer. Plus bus drivers here have been killing people all too often.

The bus ride itself is only about 20 minutes, but it takes ~10 minutes to walk to the stop and then you have to wait for the bus to randomly show up because the schedule doesn't mean anything. Two busses can show up at the same time and even though they're 10 minutes apart, you can wait over 30 minutes for the next bus. Can't really read or do anything productive while walking and standing in the rain.

Also, that 25 minute drive is compared to a much shorter distance by bus. (To MS vs to Amazon.) To Amazon by car is ~10 minutes. So it's a 10 minute drive vs 45 minutes via bus. For MS, it's a 25 minute drive vs ~90 minutes via bus. That's a 130 minute difference every day. 50wks/yr, that that's over 541 hours.

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What is the deal with Amazon charging $20/day for parking? They don't actually have employee parking so you have to go to some pay lot?

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