One piece of standard backpacking equipment that I carried on every trip FOR YEARS without ever opening was a rattlesnake bite kit. Back in the 70s it was considered a must have.

But I never EVER saw a snake.... until I moved out here near the river. I saw my first one last year, but it was deep inside a pile of rocks. I wouldn't have known that it was even there except for that NOISE. If you've never heard it, it's NOT like a baby's rattle - it's a darned creepy sound.

Then I was one two days ago on a trail. Once it saw me it started rattling and ran off into the bushes.

So far, none of this bothers me. Some animals are dangerous, but ALL of them are afraid of people and would rather run away then tangle with a human. At least, this covers most animals...

However, I saw another one yesterday (that's two days in a row now). Might have been the same one - it was about 200 yards from where I saw the other.

I went down to the water to get a shot of a bird on the other side of the river. I saw stepping away from the water and staring at my camera - either checking settings or checking the quality of the shot when I noticed that i was standing right next to a snake. Maybe two feet away. He wasn't rattling and seemed to be still. At first I thought it was a king snake (I think that's what it's called), but then saw the rattle and took a large, quick step away. He then took off for the bushes never making a sound.

First - just how dangerous are these things? I had a friend that had a very close call with one, but he was 2+ hours of hard hiking from his car when it happened and 90+min drive to a hospital. HE was in pretty bad shape when he finally got to a doctor. My situation is the opposite. I'd be a few minutes walk to my car, a short drive to a doctor and there are plenty of people around this area and I'm within cell phone coverage.

Second - why didn't this snake just bolt when he saw me? Isn't that what they would normally do? Was I perhaps too still for him to see for a moment?

This second encounter made me nervous. We fear what we don't know. Teach me please. I'm off to the river again and these thoughts just ran though my head. I'll be back later... thanks in advance...

[www.rattlesnakebite.org]

I'd say you were lucky. Bites are rare, and the amount of venom injected varies based lots of factors, but it sounds like rattlesnakes are pretty dangerous when they're angry.
[en.wikipedia.org]

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Nothing to see here, move along.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 05:13PM by ztirffritz.

How dangerous? Not at all, if they don't bite. Remember your friend? Then again, it sounds if you're hiking in the suburbs. I say, go get 'em!

They will not attack unless surprised (i.e. you corner one, step on one, or reach overhead and accidentally grab one while climbing on rocks. They are quite dangerous, especially if you have a long way to go for emergency care. I always carry a snakebite kit while doing fieldwork and have been struck at a few times but never bitten. The only ones that are worth a damn are the extractor type, like this: [www.rei.com] . These are also quite useful for bee stings. Don't even think about using the ineffective and frankly dangerous cheapo kits with suction cups, thread and razor blades.

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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 05:47PM by davester.

This thread is useless without pictures!

Yes, Davester is right: do not use any snakebite kit that involves cutting.

Confirm this independently, but I think the distance a rattler can strike is roughly a third of its length. Or is it two thirds? I think it's a third. So you can judge whether a snake you can see is a threat or not.

A walking stick is a great way to alert snakes of your presence while they're too far away to harm you.

I guess the 2nd snake you saw just didn't perceive you as a threat. Was it early in the day or cool? Maybe he was still sleepy.

Good ankle boots & leggings or even thick clothes provide some degree of protection from bites. Most people who are bitten are trying to kill or catch the snake. But of course, if you're climbing, watch where you put your hands.

*Disclaimer: all above info superseded by whatever Stephanie tells you.

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[www.flickr.com] [picasaweb.google.com]

Get yourself a good pair of snake boots.



[www.basspro.com]

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Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

> This thread is useless without pictures!

Check out the link ztirffritz posted. Ulp!

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“There is no greater calling than to serve your fellow men. There is no greater contribution than to help the weak. There is no greater satisfaction than to have done it well.”

- Walter Reuther

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Spock
Get yourself a good pair of snake boots.



[www.basspro.com]

Excellent advice.

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RIP, Greg the DogSitter. You are missed.

No snakes today - phew...

Thanks or the info thus far, but I really want to hear from Stephanie. Might have to PM.

So Davester - thanks for the link... would you bother to whip that thing out and get to work or would you think that time might be better spend getting into a vehicle and going... keeping in mind that I'm within 15min of my car and a short drive to a doctor.

Oh, and if you are unfortunate enough to get bitten take a picture of the snake so the hospital can give you the specific antivenin.

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Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

"the amount of venom injected varies based lots of factors"

Very true! Severity of bites can also vary depending where you are bitten.


"time might be better spend getting into a vehicle and going... "

Yes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 06:34PM by btfc.

There's a reason cowboy boots look the way they do.

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RIP, Greg the DogSitter. You are missed.

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hal
No snakes today - phew...

Thanks or the info thus far, but I really want to hear from Stephanie. Might have to PM.

So Davester - thanks for the link... would you bother to whip that thing out and get to work or would you think that time might be better spend getting into a vehicle and going... keeping in mind that I'm within 15min of my car and a short drive to a doctor.

Having used the snakebite kit to successfully remove venom from several bee stings, I would probably whip out the extractor before doing anything. It takes all of 30 seconds to get the extractor out of the case and apply it to the bite. You can then leave the thing attached to the bite area by suction and continuing to suck venom as you walk to your car and start driving. I figure you're much better off getting the venom out while the getting is good (i.e. shortly after getting bitten) than you are having the doctor deal with the aftermath when it is probably too late to remove the venom.

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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 06:46PM by davester.

[www.aafp.org]

ok - glad I asked

Quote
Spock
Get yourself a good pair of snake boots.



[www.basspro.com]

Seems like that would pi$$ it off even more. Would me if I was a snake!

not much of a picture, but hereya go...

this is the first one that properly ran away when he saw me...

I have the extractor, but never used it for a snake bite. However I once sucked out bee venom and out floated the stinger too!

Prevention is worth a pound of cure. Gear up if hiking snake country. How about some Snake chaps? Linked ones might be overkill, but "over the calf" models might work.

I find that reptiles are more often seen in spring, as they seek the sun after cool nights. As the summer wears on, they retreat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 07:13PM by Acer.

Pacific Rattlesnake


I've seen them sunning themselves in the middle of the bike trail.

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Spock
Oh, and if you are unfortunate enough to get bitten take a picture of the snake so the hospital can give you the specific antivenin.

In the U.S. there is only one antivenin for ALL viper envenomation now. Nothing for coral snakes. Identifying the snake is still a good idea.

The Sawyer, or any other, extractor is no longer recommended since they have not been proven effective with snake bites. OTOH, like davester, I still carry one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 07:17PM by Pat.

Based on Pat's comment, I just looked through some of the recent medical literature, and it is pretty damning of the sawyer extractor for snake bites. You may get fluid out, but the studies show that it doesn't contain much venom and you may cause damage to the tissues under the suction cup, worsening the situation.

Like Pat though, I'll continue to carry the extractor. I often find myself in locations that are many hours from any possible help, so I'd take the approach of "any port in a storm" and whip out that extractor as fast as possible if bitten in such a situation.

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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland

what a helpful thread - even without Steph (I PMd her), but I'd still like to hear her input....

SNAKES GOT FEET!!!

If those snakes are truly "running" off into the bushes.

Good thread, though. We don't have poisonous snakes where I live, but if the climate trend keeps warming, maybe some will start to show up.

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Be yourself; everyone else is already taken. — Oscar Wilde



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 09:24PM by Ammo.

I'm here - sorry I'm late to the party! I don't usually check the forum until the evening (work gets in the way, ya know?).

Lots of good advice already. Ungle Wig is pretty spot on about everything except for the length that they can strike - I have heard between 1/2 and 2/3 their body length. Really, given the fact that there is conflicting info out there, assume 2/3 just to be safe. And no, they can't strike any further than that - the last 1/3 of their body isn't enough to support the weight of the first 2/3 of their body. For a snake to strike any farther than 2/3 its length, it would be as if it was trying to strike effectively while on its tip-toes (pardon the bad analogy).

Although this may be specific to Nevada, there's still a lot of good information at this link: [www.alongtheway.org]

Regarding snake bite kits, I have always heard they are useless. Here's an article I found: [online.wsj.com]

Now, for information you probably won't easily find online...

Realize that most types of snakes aren't aggressive by nature. You can say, "but I've encountered an aggressive snake before". That may be true, but if that's the case, you most likely startled it, and it feels the need to defend itself.

Snakes aren't stupid - they know they don't really have a lot of defenses. That being said, being bitten by a rattlesnake doesn't necessarily mean you will be envenomated. A good portion are "dry bites".

Observe a snake to determine its mood. Snakes that feel threatened will recoil, and their heads and necks will usually be lifted up off the ground and in an S shape.


This pic would be the classic strike position - the snake is upset and prepared to defend himself if further provoked.

And going back to the distance they can strike - you will most likely not encounter many rattlesnakes over 6 ft in length, so if you are at least 4 feet away from one, you are perfectly safe.

Snakes react to movement, if you find yourself too close to one, stop, stay still and observe. If the snake is relaxed (leisurely coiled or stretched out), back away slowly or wait to see if the snake will move off on its own.

Another good link for general info: [www.wikihow.com]

Ok - great info...

So, I'm right in assuming that a snake would rather run (ok, slither) than attack (assuming there is a place to run to - not cornered)??

So the second one that startled me... He was clearly not threatening. He was motionless and stretched out. He must have been in traveling mode. If he was there all along, that would have meant that I must have stepped over him on the way to the water - he wouldn't sit still for that, he'd move on, right? So I assume that he just bumped into me and froze waiting to see what I would do - sound reasonable?

Like I said, I took one long step away (putting me a good five feet away). Are you suggesting that I should have stayed frozen while he was clearly not threatening. He was only 2' away - a 5' snake, but not coiled.

I'm pretty good around wild life once I understand them.

I'll take everything Stephanie says about snakes as authoratative except the part about being perfectly safe 4 feet from a six foot snake that is recoiled and rattling...
I would defecate myself so quickly there would be seroius risk of dehydration!

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Paul F.
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A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
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Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--
Eureka, CA

She was addressing her comments to Hal. If she had known YOU were interested then she probably would have echoed your comments back to you before you even thought about it. Each response is tailored to the recipient specifically.

But then, you should have one of your guns with you anyway. Can you shoot with a loaded pouch (underwear?)

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Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace

I'll be hiking tomorrow in timber rattlesnake country in northwest NJ. They are endangered in my state, so it is illegal to kill or harass them. I've only encountered a rattlesnake once on the trail, and the guy took off when he saw me coming.

Timber rattlesnake bites in NJ are extremely rare, although a guy was bitten last year near Atlantic City when trying to help one cross a busy road.

hal - where do you live? Just curious.

I posted about my recent experience with a rattler a few weeks back. Fortunately he was stretched out and on the move - right for my open garage door. I sent him off to snake heaven with a shovel.

[forums.macresource.com]

You didn't mention if you have a dog. There are low cost rattlesnake vaccinations for them ($30 for two injection series) as well as for horses. Strangely there is not one for cats.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2012 08:50AM by mjgkramer.

If you see a rattlesnake, watch carefully for a second one as you step away. They sometimes travel in pairs.

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mjgkramer
hal - where do you live? Just curious.

In Carmichael, CA. Not too worried about snakes around the house. The environment is totally different a mile away along the American river where I spotted the snakes.

We live just north of San Antonio in the middle of a wooded, rocky 5 acre plot with boulders up to the foundation and a crawl space under the house. Lots of places for the rattling things to hide, but the one I killed recently was the first large one seen since we moved here in February 1999. I am now a bit more careful when I step out the back door and when I get out of the car in the car port.

....what about the notorious one-eyed SNAKE.....???

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I reject your reality and substitute my own!