Poll

Should I sell 'em

Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll.
35 votes were received.

Yes	14		40%
No	21		60%
Other - explanation below	0		0%

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I've been thinking about this for years now. When I built my first hackintosh a guy and I were posting back and forth in a thread on another forum on how to get things working. He went on to start his own site, [tonymacx86.com] He, and now with a couple contributors, have developed software to make the whole process incredibly easy. They don't sell anything, but do list suggested builds with affiliate links so they get a cut.

I'm thinking of getting into the hackintosh market as well, but differently. A few things I wont do:
- Distribute or install OS X on the machines
- Provide links, info or hints at illegal activity like torrents to OS X
- Provide OS X specific support (because if the company specifically supported OS X, Apple could potentially claim the company violated the EULA itself - not in the sale and support, but just with testing.)

What I would provide:
- Website that sells two or three pre-configured machines that customers have tested and found to work well with OS X.
- Advertise them as "multi-boot" machines, as they could also boot into Windows and Linux as well
- I have a third party who will supply, assemble, ship and handled warranty (hardware only) for all components.

I'll probably provide two machines - Budget & Pro - and potentially offer some BTO options (though realistically I can't compete with Newegg on things like RAM and HD upgrades.) Maybe for some people they'd rather I do it.

These machines would ship fully assembled and ready for an OS install. They wouldn't have OS X installed, or any other software.

Obviously they would be more expensive than building your own, but then people wouldn't have to assemble their own and worry about things like applying thermal paste.

What do you think, should I give 'er a try?

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I'm confused as to why the third party doesn't do this themselves. Just curious.

As for "obviously they would be more expensive than building your own",
scale modelers can tell you that there are plenty of folks who have no interest in building their own, so I would say give it a shot, why not?

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what the most it will cost you?

registering a web site and coming up with a site to sell
market at what forums you visit and wait for the orders to roll in.

if you have the savvy and gumption to do this for real customers, i say go ahead. you dont need inventory to start out with, do you?

If a person buys a computer, how many days turn around does it take for you to ship? with no inventory, you buy as you go but the customer would have to wait for your stuff to come in and then your build time
and then your ship time.

Do you plan to do any quality control checks (e.g. install the os) to make sure that specific build works? - else maybe just swap out a HD with the install and swap out for a blank one when shipping.)

sounds like fun if you can spare the time to do it.
How much are you planning to charge for your basic and pro models?

"- I have a third party who will supply, assemble, ship and handled warranty (hardware only) for all components." So you are not the one doing the builds. okay, less responsibility/risk for you, sounds like a winner



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2012 03:54PM by edgarbc1.

Quote
$tevie
I'm confused as to why the third party doesn't do this themselves. Just curious.

Doesn't know how/doesn't care probably. Their current business model allows them to do this, but they don't currently have an interest in it.

Quote
edgarbc1
what the most it will cost you?

registering a web site and coming up with a site to sell

And some expenses on top of that. There's a few other costs as well.

Quote

you dont need inventory to start out with, do you?

If a person buys a computer, how many days turn around does it take for you to ship? with no inventory, you buy as you go but the customer would have to wait for your stuff to come in and then your build time and then your ship time.

I'd work with the third party to make sure if there's not inventory that it doesn't take them long to get components, assemble and ship.

Quote

Do you plan to do any quality control checks (e.g. install the os) to make sure that specific build works? - else maybe just swap out a HD with the install and swap out for a blank one when shipping.)

Probably enters a legal gray area.

Quote

How much are you planning to charge for your basic and pro models?

No idea. It'll be based on what I think is a sweet spot in the hardware:
- Budget - solid machine, probably just at 1TB drive, 4GB RAM. Don't want to skimp too much, but not going to worry about firewire, more than 4 SATA ports, 2 RAM slots...

- Pro - probably SSD boot, possibly with 2TB second drive. Starting with 8GB RAM. i7. At least 1GB VRAM. FW400, eSATA... possibly USB3 and FW800. At least 4 HD bays. Large, quiet cooling. Upgraded CPU cooler.

All the machines would have a clean, simple look and run very quietly.

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I say forget it...

Having someone do the work while you make the money is not gonna sit well with the one doing the work and as soon as they have the capital, they should go out on their own.

Scammers could really, really hurt this operation. Will you have strict inventory control? Will you know the serial number of every component in every machine?

Morons could really hurt this operation. Once the avg idiot hears about Mac Pros at half the price, they will buy first and ask questions later and when they find that they really aren't 'just the same', they'll send nasty emails citing all of the lawyers they have in their family etc...

This would be a great side project for an operation already running, but not as a central focus... imo...

As much as I would like to have one, I had to vote no because of what hal said. I think it might be too much of a hassle, unless you could sell them kind of "as is", no warranty, no help, nothing but the computer. Maybe you could hire a lawyer to cover you with enough legalese, but I don't know.

Having said the above, I'll take one!

Quote
hal
I say forget it...

Having someone do the work while you make the money is not gonna sit well with the one doing the work and as soon as they have the capital, they should go out on their own.

The third party has more capital than I. They just don't do much B2C business. They're mostly B2B. Companies come to them and say "we want to buy 100 computers to sell to others" and they make one sale of 100 computers. They don't want to deal with the sale of individual computers. They would invoice me every 30 days for the last 30 days of sales. Then they keep their production staff busy building, boxing and shipping. Plus I doubt they would want to risk their main business by marketing this idea.

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Scammers could really, really hurt this operation. Will you have strict inventory control? Will you know the serial number of every component in every machine?

Inventory control? We will know exactly what ships. That probably includes every SN. How are you thinking scammers could hurt this?

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Morons could really hurt this operation. Once the avg idiot hears about Mac Pros at half the price, they will buy first and ask questions later and when they find that they really aren't 'just the same', they'll send nasty emails citing all of the lawyers they have in their family etc...

Well, they wont look like Mac Pros for one. Plus I certainly wont have "Mac" nor "Apple" in the name. I'll probably need to make it extra clear no OS is included.

Quote

This would be a great side project for an operation already running, but not as a central focus... imo...

Well, maybe think of it this way: I'm providing the marketing, website... for an already operating business to sell products with a different focus, but still the same as their core business.

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I'd say face-to-face with a deposit to filter the bozos and time-wasters.

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Quote
LaserKun
I think it might be too much of a hassle, unless you could sell them kind of "as is", no warranty, no help, nothing but the computer. Maybe you could hire a lawyer to cover you with enough legalese, but I don't know.

Having said the above, I'll take one!

Yes, I'll be very clear on things. For example, I'll probably have a big FAQ page with the top question of "Will this run Mac OS X?" And the answer will be something along the lines of "Apple wants you to use their OS with their hardware. It's impossible for anyone to guarantee this hardware will work with OS X, no and forever. However, some customers have told us these machines will run OS X very well."

Of course, that's only if it's true and I can only add such a statement after it's true.

And, yes, I'll be hiring a lawyer to start.

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Quote
decay
I'd say face-to-face with a deposit to filter the bozos and time-wasters.

It's not worth my time to do face-to-face. It'll be essentially the same as the Apple Store online - you buy, pay full price, and a few days later your machine arrives.

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sounds like a lot of work for a small payoff. IMHO.

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Who's going to handle the warranty issues because your white box guys won't be doing that? They'd also avoid handling returns too.

My understanding is that Apple has a zero tolerance for clone makers. If Steve Jobs was still in charge he'd see to it that you were crushed like a bug. Perhaps Cook would be gentler, though I doubt that his lawyers would be. You're planning a business that revolves around violating the licensing agreement of a powerful company. That seems a bit foolish to me.

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Are there not several OEM or custom computer builders already in existence, with a well-established business model and long-standing reputation?

Why wouldn't someone just buy from them (using a tonymacx-specified build)?

Edit: Davester, he would not be selling Mac clones, he would be selling custom-configured Windows or Linux computers, that just happen to be able to run Mac OS X. As long as he is not shipping Mac OS X with the computer (or even guaranteeing OS X compatibility) then Apple has nothing to say about it.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2012 04:42PM by AllGold.

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IronMac
Who's going to handle the warranty issues because your white box guys won't be doing that? They'd also avoid handling returns too.

The third party will handle those.

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AllGold
Are there not several OEM or custom computer builders already in existence, with a well-established business model and long-standing reputation?

Why wouldn't someone just buy from them (using a tonymacx-specified build)?

To my knowledge, none that sell a tonymacx specified build. You have to buy your own components, and assemble them.

Quote

Edit: Davester, he would not be selling Mac clones, he would be selling custom-configured Windows or Linux computers, that just happen to be able to run Mac OS X. As long as he is not shipping Mac OS X with the computer (or even guaranteeing OS X compatibility) then Apple has nothing to say about it.

Exactly. Pystar got shutdown because they were distributing OS X, not because they were selling hardware that OS X could run on.

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M A V I C, I vote NO. I don't see enough margin to justify the endevour.

Quote
davester
My understanding is that Apple has a zero tolerance for clone makers.
...

We're not dealing with a Mac clone. If the hardware is off the shelf with
stock ROM's & no copied TPM code, it's just another peecee.
Heck, you could even partition the HDD with GUID & include a UniBeast
USB Stick and it's still not a clone.

My vote is still no

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Negative

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M A V I C

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AllGold
Are there not several OEM or custom computer builders already in existence, with a well-established business model and long-standing reputation?

Why wouldn't someone just buy from them (using a tonymacx-specified build)?

To my knowledge, none that sell a tonymacx specified build. You have to buy your own components, and assemble them.

There are a bunch of businesses that sell fully assembled custom build-to-order computers. Some let you pick all the components. Here are a few examples:
[www.cyberpowerpc.com]
[www.nextdaypc.com]
[www.pugetsystems.com]

There is one that I can't recall the name right now and don't seem to be able to find in a search but it was very well known for build-to-order systems.

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The kind of people that would buy these computers are the same type who would use the parts list from Tonymac and build their own: tinkerers and hackintoshers. So why pay you more to get the same thing they can build for themselves cheaper? I would think twice about this venture and then think about it again.

Quote
AllGold
Edit: Davester, he would not be selling Mac clones, he would be selling custom-configured Windows or Linux computers, that just happen to be able to run Mac OS X. As long as he is not shipping Mac OS X with the computer (or even guaranteeing OS X compatibility) then Apple has nothing to say about it.

For all intents and purposes it would be a clone since it would be designed and built to run OS X. However, since it would be designed to be a hackintosh then he would need to be able to sell it as a hackintosh, which would set the Apple attack dog lawyers after him. If he doesn't try to sell it as a hackintosh that works well with OS X then there's no sales angle and he would be just another PC box builder in a field with razor thin profit margins.

Also, what richorlin said above is exactly right. If someone is savvy enough to configure and install the software on a hackintosh, then they're savvy enough to build a hackintosh or order a hackintosh from a system builder using the tonymac website as a guide. I don't see a viable business plan here.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2012 07:50PM by davester.

Inc. overseas, and get a front. Or the Apple lawyers will keeel you. And PNG you from any Apple Store. Forever.

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M A V I C

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IronMac
Who's going to handle the warranty issues because your white box guys won't be doing that? They'd also avoid handling returns too.

The third party will handle those.

Sorry, I think this is where it's going to hang up and potentially turn into a big mistake. I'd tread very carefully.

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Thanks all. Interesting feedback so far. What's interesting is that the initial feedback was to do it, and now that's completely changed to not do it.

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decay
sounds like a lot of work for a small payoff. IMHO.

Yeah, it would boil down to how much extra people were willing to pay to have a pre-built machine.

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AllGold

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M A V I C

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AllGold
Are there not several OEM or custom computer builders already in existence, with a well-established business model and long-standing reputation?

Why wouldn't someone just buy from them (using a tonymacx-specified build)?

To my knowledge, none that sell a tonymacx specified build. You have to buy your own components, and assemble them.

There are a bunch of businesses that sell fully assembled custom build-to-order computers. Some let you pick all the components. Here are a few examples:
[www.cyberpowerpc.com]
[www.nextdaypc.com]
[www.pugetsystems.com]

There is one that I can't recall the name right now and don't seem to be able to find in a search but it was very well known for build-to-order systems.

I don't see anywhere on those sites where they offer a tonymacx specified build. Have you ever tried to use one of these sites to build a tonymacx specified build? I've never seen it done.

Quote
richorlin
The kind of people that would buy these computers are the same type who would use the parts list from Tonymac and build their own: tinkerers and hackintoshers. So why pay you more to get the same thing they can build for themselves cheaper? I would think twice about this venture and then think about it again.

That's one thing I'm not sure on. I wonder how many of them are people that like to tinker vs just want Mac OS X running the hardware that's important to them. I only have mine because I want hardware configs that are no where near what Apple offers.

Quote
davester
For all intents and purposes it would be a clone since it would be designed and built to run OS X. However, since it would be designed to be a hackintosh then he would need to be able to sell it as a hackintosh, which would set the Apple attack dog lawyers after him. If he doesn't try to sell it as a hackintosh that works well with OS X then there's no sales angle and he would be just another PC box builder in a field with razor thin profit margins.

They aren't "designed and built" to run OS X. The sum of the parts can run OS X, but that doesn't suddenly make it illegal. Again, Apple didn't go after pystar because they configured hardware that could run OS X. And the judge ruled their wrongdoing was distributing OS X.

When Insider tried the box machine a few years ago, they didn't go after him for that either. They went after his supplier of motherboards. And I don't think there was any legal wrongdoing there either - it was just that the supplier was going to not be an Apple customer anymore if they continued.

Quote

Also, what richorlin said above is exactly right. If someone is savvy enough to configure and install the software on a hackintosh, then they're savvy enough to build a hackintosh or order a hackintosh from a system builder using the tonymac website as a guide. I don't see a viable business plan here.

I totally disagree on that. How many hacintoshes have you setup? It takes about an extra 10-15 minutes of effort to install OS X on a hackintosh compared to installing it on an OEM Mac. It takes at least several hours to spec out, order and assemble the hardware. And I still haven't seen a reseller that offers a tonymac based config.

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Black

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M A V I C

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IronMac
Who's going to handle the warranty issues because your white box guys won't be doing that? They'd also avoid handling returns too.

The third party will handle those.

Sorry, I think this is where it's going to hang up and potentially turn into a big mistake. I'd tread very carefully.

Why's that? They already handle hardware returns & warranty as a core part of their existing business.

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So you'll put these machines together, but then the buyer who presumably chose your service because they didn't want to apply their own thermal paste/etc. is going to to troubleshoot a possible failed component and then crack the case, pull a processor or video card, and deal with an RMA to the mfg of that specific component?
That would be nice if it worked, but much more likely they're going to want to hold you responsible and start threatening to write their attorney general etc.

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Quote
Black
So you'll put these machines together, but then the buyer who presumably chose your service because they didn't want to apply their own thermal paste/etc. is going to to troubleshoot a possible failed component and then crack the case, pull a processor or video card, and deal with an RMA to the mfg of that specific component?
That would be nice if it worked, but much more likely they're going to want to hold you responsible and start threatening to write their attorney general etc.

No, not at all. They will send the whole machine back to the third party. They certainly wont have to pull components and deal with the MFG.

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If you do this, test each machine with a HDD already setup with OS X but don't mention you do this. You're going to need some QC, and OS X should be good for this. The gambit about "we've been 'told' (wink) that OS X runs on this ..." is weaksauce. You can come right out and say OS X'll install on it with whatever type of provisos TonyMac has. Done. End of promises.

Speaking for myself, I'm more inclined to use TonyMac's Amazon or other links to buy parts and use my own screwdriver. The other buyer, the one who wants 100 or more, doesn't exist for this. The one in-between, who might want a few OS X PCs but not to build them, would be an exceedingly rare beast IMO.

What TonyMac mainly offers is information --- a recipe, the #1 thing Hackintoshers require. I understand seeing a niche to differentiate by offering hardware. Will you be piggybacking on his research, or doing you own as time goes by, with experimenting? Overall, hardware sales changes the business significantly in myriad ways. It could be you've accounted for all of them, or not. If your heart says to do it, do it and ignore us.

I think it's a viable idea. Years ago I built my own boxes, it was a fun thing to do. However, life showed up and delivered a family with responsibilities and now I'd rather spend the time that I used to devote to specing, buying and building to using a machine for projects. My tinkering days are pretty much over, but I wouldn't mind getting a pre-built machine on which I could slap on OS X.

I'd suggest selling it with a Linux distro on it, as that would at least make it useful from the get-go, and potentially keep the Apple law hawks off of your butt. You just let the customer know in a FAQ, like your one above, that it may be able to run OS X. If some one wanted to *ahem* install OSX, what can you say, you shipped them a working Linux machine.

I see no reason why you couldn't be just another PC builder but who carves his niche selling machines that are OS X-capable.

But your inability to directly advertise your core competency will make it a lot more difficult to reach the customers who want what you sell but who don't want to set it up themselves. Your choice of advertising venues could help.

I say go for it and see what happens. What are you risking? It's not as though you're sinking tens of thousands of unrecoverable dollars into rent, equipment, or store decor. Maybe a couple of grand in parts, then pay-as-you-go? Certainly worked for Michael Dell back in the day.

I'm woefully out of date (by perhaps a decade). Don't you need bona fide Apple ROMs in order to run a Mac OS?

/Mr Lynn

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Quote
tenders
I see no reason why you couldn't be just another PC builder but who carves his niche selling machines that are OS X-capable.

But your inability to directly advertise your core competency will make it a lot more difficult to reach the customers who want what you sell but who don't want to set it up themselves. Your choice of advertising venues could help.

I say go for it and see what happens. What are you risking? It's not as though you're sinking tens of thousands of unrecoverable dollars into rent, equipment, or store decor. Maybe a couple of grand in parts, then pay-as-you-go? Certainly worked for Michael Dell back in the day.

Ditto. I personally would pay for such a machine, if the price were right. That is, the overall cost should not be more than purchasing a comparable machine from HP. At that price, you would have a market advantage while staying cost-competitive.

Quote
mrlynn
I'm woefully out of date (by perhaps a decade). Don't you need bona fide Apple ROMs in order to run a Mac OS?

/Mr Lynn

The switch to Intel processors allowed PC motherboards, and PC video cards. The rest was (eventually) comparatively easy. Macintoshes still use Apple-specific EFI, but not ROMs.

I'm not saying Macs use PC motherboards etc. ... only that some PC motherboards can be used, with some software upon booting; hence the "hack" in Hackintosh.

Edit: decay's right, it's not proprietary firmware per se, it's EFI, which is a standard type of firmware that permits this stuff . It takes the place of BIOS, which most PC boards still require due to their one-size-fits-all needs.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2012 10:24PM by deckeda.

apologies for this tangent, but some may gain by this info:

mrlynn,

Intel Macs use custom EFI, not Open Firmware.
[en.wikipedia.org]

The various hacks work around that limitation.
[en.wikipedia.org]

Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. Since this method generally does not require copying or modification of Mac OS X, it is the considered to be (despite being untested in courts) the legal way of installing Mac OS X on non-Apple computers.

Certain motherboards are known to be the most compatible.

---

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Quote
sekker

Quote
tenders
I see no reason why you couldn't be just another PC builder but who carves his niche selling machines that are OS X-capable.

But your inability to directly advertise your core competency will make it a lot more difficult to reach the customers who want what you sell but who don't want to set it up themselves. Your choice of advertising venues could help.

I say go for it and see what happens. What are you risking? It's not as though you're sinking tens of thousands of unrecoverable dollars into rent, equipment, or store decor. Maybe a couple of grand in parts, then pay-as-you-go? Certainly worked for Michael Dell back in the day.

Ditto. I personally would pay for such a machine, if the price were right. That is, the overall cost should not be more than purchasing a comparable machine from HP. At that price, you would have a market advantage while staying cost-competitive.

And you may be indirectly bringing up a bigger issue - quality vs stats. Say they both have the same i7, 8GB RAM, same video card model... if I did it, mine would have a much higher quality motherboard, RAM and video card. Plus it would have quieter fans.

Maybe the niche is too small?

Also, the business would never, ever install OS X until that ability is proven in court. The EULA says that it's to be installed on "apple labeled" machines only. Putting a sticker on the side during the installation may not be enough... I certainly wouldn't stake a lawsuit on it. So I would prefer to avoid the business ever having to even agree to the EULA.

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Quote
M A V I C
...
Also, the business would never, ever install OS X until that ability is proven in court. The EULA says that it's to be installed on "apple labeled" machines only. Putting a sticker on the side during the installation may not be enough... I certainly wouldn't stake a lawsuit on it. So I would prefer to avoid the business ever having to even agree to the EULA.

looks like you have not kept up with changes in EULA. Leopard EULA was indeed "Apple labeled" but when the hackintosh movement gained ground, Apple changed that term to "Apple branded" in Snow Leopard EULA (and I guess also in Lion but I admit, I didn't check)

Quote
mrlynn
I'm woefully out of date (by perhaps a decade). Don't you need bona fide Apple ROMs in order to run a Mac OS?

/Mr Lynn

Not since OSX. Will Apple add that back ? Only time will tell. (Remembering the hoary days of Outbound laptops, which required the buyer sacrifice a Mac Plus to get the boot ROM out of its motherboard).

Mavic,

I vote for no. Aside from the issues brought up by others, one of the bigger concerns is the market. How much of a market is there for these machines and how will you tap it? I've thought about building a hackintosh for personal use. It'd be cool to play with one and even use it as a media server. However, I'd never use one as a primary machine at home nor would I use one in my office.

As a primary machine, I want rock solid reliability, compatibility and support for both hardware and software. This is even more important in a business setting. As a result, I'd never own a hackintosh as a primary machine and I would never buy them for my company. At most, I'd take an standard mac and perform reasonable upgrades that are highly unlikely to have compatibility issues, i.e. increased RAM, storage. Even now, I check and double-check compatibility prior to purchasing RAM, internal hard disk drives and other items that go into the innards of any of my Macs. So, with that in mind, I think the primary market for these will be people who want to work with one as a hobby, not as a primary or business machine.

Do you think the people in that niche will really buy that many of them? Or, will they jump to a site like [tonymacx86.com] and use the information it contains to build one themselves? It's hard to say. For many, they'll simply build it themselves and be done with it. They have the money, time, experience and inclination. For others who want to get into the game, the convenience of having a company put together the box will be worth something. It's nice being able to remove a computer from a box, turn it on, install some software and use it. How much is that worth? I'd be this kind of customer. As much as I'd like to build a hackontosh myself, I just lack the time, and inclination. I'd rather pay a reasonable premium to have a complete box shipped to me. But, that's me. The cost of the premium is key. Make it too much and I wouldn't go near it. Make it too little and there wouldn't be enough profit in it to be worthwhile.

Then there is the warranty and question of compatibility for the intended use of the box. The hardware will have a warranty. That's cool. But, what happens when someone buys the box and finds he/she has trouble installing OS X on it? That person is going to be very unhappy, even if they knew in advance guaranteed compatibility with OS X was not a part of the deal. I've no doubt whatsoever in my mind they'll call the hardware support line to seek assistance and/or @#$%& and complain about it. End result, unhappy customers. That's definitely not good for business.

Marketing is another issue. How to market the boxes without waking the sleeping giant. I think Tenders point is right one. "your inability to directly advertise your core competency will make it a lot more difficult to reach the customers who want what you sell but who don't want to set it up themselves." Marketing will be an issue. Even if you are just selling boxes without any Apple software on them. Apple may come after you just to make themselves enough of a nuisance and cost you enough money to walk away from the market, even if you've done nothing wrong technically.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 10:12AM by Robert M.

......it's already been DONE.....

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NewtonMP2100
......it's already been DONE.....

By whom?

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M A V I C

Quote
NewtonMP2100
......it's already been DONE.....

By whom?

Psystar, but they actually installed OSX for you, which is what a customer would actually want. And even Psystar only sold 768 systems while it was doing it. I would think this would be a bad business decision.

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---"Yer all idiots." elmo3
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Robert,

As always, thanks for the diligence and thoroughness of your feedback.

Market - That's a tough question indeed. Didn't pystar get hammered with orders? They were guaranteeing OS X compatibility, and, let's be honest, Apple can't even do that.

Primary machine/stability - I used mine as my primary machine for two years and it was as stable as any Mac I've ever owned. That said, I did have mine configured in somewhat of a non-standard way which made some updates more difficult. Also, I started before things were ironed out as well as they are now. There are better ways to config them (which are now easier) that will allow them to receive updates more seamlessly. But I think the market for these are largely independent professionals - not medium or large businesses with IT staff. (And let's be honest, they have a hard enough time supporting OEM Macs.)

Build vs buy - And that goes back to the market as well. Price would obviously be a major factor. The goal would be to outperform an iMac and a little bit lower cost. Then have the benefits of being able to upgrade components at a reasonable cost, as well as install more RAM and more HDs.

Software support - Another tough question. HTC, for example, currently ships broken software on their phones and waits for the community to make fixes for them. So I'm surprised how many people will shell out $$$ for hardware when the software isn't there, and the OEM relies on the community to fix it. Apparently that business model works. Heck, android is pretty much like this at the core. Alas, people who buy android phones but really want OS X, are probably even a smaller market.

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Quote
pinion

Quote
M A V I C

Quote
NewtonMP2100
......it's already been DONE.....

By whom?

Psystar, but they actually installed OSX for you, which is what a customer would actually want. And even Psystar only sold 768 systems while it was doing it. I would think this would be a bad business decision.

Well, this is quite a bit different than Psystar. One of the biggest being is that people don't typically like to buy from a company they know is 99% likely to be doing something illegally. I didn't want to buy from them because if they were willing to break those rules, who knew what other shady things they would be willing to do.

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Quote
M A V I C

Quote
pinion

Quote
M A V I C

Quote
NewtonMP2100
......it's already been DONE.....

By whom?

Psystar, but they actually installed OSX for you, which is what a customer would actually want. And even Psystar only sold 768 systems while it was doing it. I would think this would be a bad business decision.

Well, this is quite a bit different than Psystar. One of the biggest being is that people don't typically like to buy from a company they know is 99% likely to be doing something illegally. I didn't want to buy from them because if they were willing to break those rules, who knew what other shady things they would be willing to do.

Maybe I missed it but what are you doing that stands out from Dell or HP? And how will you do it better and cheaper than them? To me it looks like your gimmick is they'll be able to run OSX although you won't support it or sell anything to deal with Apple or OSX. The only people interested will be the same people who were interested in Psystar. And my original point was that even they didn't sell many machines. I understand you're not going the same route as them at all, I'm just saying it doesn't matter if you did or didn't, perceptions will be the same and if their numbers are any indicator it's not worth your time anyway.

This whole thread you seem to be defending your idea. You obviously think it's a good idea so go for it. I certainly wish you the best of luck, I think it would be pretty cool to have the option to buy a turnkey solution with known working hardware.

One thought is I'd distribute them with a custom version of Linux Mint that looks like OSX: [community.linuxmint.com] That would actually be pretty cool and maybe help in marketing.




EDIT: That's a screenshot of linux running a mac theme. Macbuntu: [sourceforge.net]

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---"Yer all idiots." elmo3
[forums.macresource.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 12:58PM by pinion.

Quote
pinion
Maybe I missed it but what are you doing that stands out from Dell or HP? And how will you do it better and cheaper than them?

I'm surprised that this question comes up. First, HP hardware is not configured in a way that OS X can easily be installed on. Secondly, they all skimp on the details and provide sub-par hardware.

Quote

The only people interested will be the same people who were interested in Psystar. And my original point was that even they didn't sell many machines.

I think a court injunction was issued pretty quickly, and that's why they didn't get that many out the door. Of course, the injunction was against selling machines with OS X on them.

Quote

perceptions will be the same and if their numbers are any indicator it's not worth your time anyway.

Interesting that you think perceptions would be the same. I don't think they would, but perception is king. So if most would share the same perception as you, it doesn't matter what the reality is.

Quote

This whole thread you seem to be defending your idea.

Mostly to clear up misconceptions on what the idea is. If there was a ton of positive feedback, I'd probably be posting more objections to it.

Quote

One thought is I'd distribute them with a custom version of Linux Mint that looks like OSX: [community.linuxmint.com] That would actually be pretty cool and maybe help in marketing.

[sourceforge.net]

EDIT: That's a screenshot of linux running a mac theme. Macbuntu: [sourceforge.net]

Would. Not. Touch. Those icons are very clearly Apple proprietary icons. I put those on a shipping machine and I would clearly be doing something illegal.

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He'll just be selling these machines to people that know what they're getting into. They just don't want to go through the trouble of building their own. If it doesn't work perfectly, they know this and they know why.

Not doing it squelches a decent idea in the crib. You can always quit if it doesn't turn out the way you want it to.