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Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: June 11, 2012 04:08PM
I've been using it for a month or so now. My complaints:
- Dashboard is now several clicks away instead of one. I use the calculator widget all the time.
- Not sure if my scanner will work with it or not
- SMBX (Apple's proprietary replacement for the open source Samba) doesn't play well with older versions of Samba.

Other than that, no issues for me.




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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 11, 2012 04:13PM
>>- Dashboard is now several clicks away instead of one. I use the calculator widget all the time.

Two finger swipe to the left

>>- Not sure if my scanner will work with it or not

have you tried plugging it in?

>>- SMBX (Apple's proprietary replacement for the open source Samba) doesn't play well with older versions of Samba.

Super Mario Bros. X (SMBX) is a homebrew Mario Bros. engine project that blends elements from Super Mario 1, 2, 3 and World, with SMB3 physics. It contains an extensive point-and-click level editor that allows for the creation classic Super Mario Bros. styled levels. It is possible to create episodes using either the SMB3 or SMW styled world map, or using a Mario 64 style hub level that has the players collect stars to advance. The game is playable with a friend in the 2 player co-op mode, where the screen seamlessly splits and combines as the players separate and rejoin. Custom graphics and custom music can be imported into levels.

There are classic power-ups such as the Fire Flower, Tanooki Suit, Yoshi, and Kuribo's Shoe, but also new power-ups like the Ice Flower, The Billy Gun, and the Propeller Block. Besides Mario and Luigi, there are also Toad, Princess Peach and Link as playable characters.

Levels and episodes made in SMBX require the engine to play. Currently, there is no stane-alone option for distribution. SMBX is coded in Visual Basic.



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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: June 11, 2012 04:17PM
Quote
mattkime
>>- Dashboard is now several clicks away instead of one. I use the calculator widget all the time.

Two finger swipe to the left

I'm not using a trackpad. smiling smiley

Quote

>>- Not sure if my scanner will work with it or not

have you tried plugging it in?

Don't have a 15 mile long FW cable. winking smiley

Quote

>>- SMBX (Apple's proprietary replacement for the open source Samba) doesn't play well with older versions of Samba.

Super Mario Bros. X (SMBX) is a homebrew Mario Bros. engine project that blends elements from Super Mario 1, 2, 3 and World, with SMB3 physics. It contains an extensive point-and-click level editor that allows for the creation classic Super Mario Bros. styled levels. It is possible to create episodes using either the SMB3 or SMW styled world map, or using a Mario 64 style hub level that has the players collect stars to advance. The game is playable with a friend in the 2 player co-op mode, where the screen seamlessly splits and combines as the players separate and rejoin. Custom graphics and custom music can be imported into levels.

There are classic power-ups such as the Fire Flower, Tanooki Suit, Yoshi, and Kuribo's Shoe, but also new power-ups like the Ice Flower, The Billy Gun, and the Propeller Block. Besides Mario and Luigi, there are also Toad, Princess Peach and Link as playable characters.

Levels and episodes made in SMBX require the engine to play. Currently, there is no stane-alone option for distribution. SMBX is coded in Visual Basic.

Context is everything smiling smiley In this case, it's in the context of OS X Lion.




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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: June 11, 2012 04:19PM
Why is Dashboard multiple clicks? Doesn't just one click pull it up from the Dock for you?

I had scanner issues that were resolved by a simple download.

I've had no other problems.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: June 11, 2012 04:27PM
Dashboard for me is an F12 tap on my non-Apple keyboard. I did turn off the "Treat Dashboard as a Space" option; I prefer the older way it popped up, so I'm back on that.

I have no real complains about Lion. Truthfully. Speaking of how I use my Mac for work and personal needs on a day-to-day basis, I've not encountered anything that would make me tell someone *not* to buy it.

(Using it on a 2011 MBP (8,3) with a mess of RAM (16GB) running off an OWC 6G SSD.)



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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: June 11, 2012 04:28PM
Quote
(vikm)
Why is Dashboard multiple clicks? Doesn't just one click pull it up from the Dock for you?

Well, the dashboard key now fires mission control, which means I then I have to navigate my mouse up to the Dashboard, click on it, run my calculation, then hit the key again, select whatever app I was in...

Before I was key press, calculation, key press.




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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: threeprong
Date: June 11, 2012 04:40PM
Personally, I can't stand the "Save a Version" approach that is now shown in Apple apps that run under Lion.

I just don't get that.

3P
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: prymsnap
Date: June 11, 2012 04:41PM
Brother MFC scanner function no longer shows up as a device in Image Capture.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 11, 2012 04:48PM
Its because you can revision your files. by day or by whatever.

Quote
threeprong
Personally, I can't stand the "Save a Version" approach that is now shown in Apple apps that run under Lion.

I just don't get that.

3P
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 11, 2012 04:49PM
Quote
M A V I C
I'm not using a trackpad. smiling smiley

nor am i!





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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: June 11, 2012 04:52PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
M A V I C
I'm not using a trackpad. smiling smiley

nor am i!


Your apple mouse has a trackpad atop it. Sorry if you didn't know that. smiling smiley




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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: GeneL
Date: June 11, 2012 05:10PM
I was leery of Lion at first, but now that I have replaced my Apple modem with an inexpensive 64 bit model and used it for a while, I am pleased with it.

Everything is snappier! Boots in half the time of my previous SL drive.



gl @ Dana Point, CA
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: June 11, 2012 05:17PM
SpotLight can do calculations---just type in, and if you want the calculator-hit the enter/return key
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: Harbourmaster
Date: June 11, 2012 05:28PM
I have to buy a new version of Studio Artist in order to run it under Lion....



Aloha, Ken


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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: hal
Date: June 11, 2012 05:37PM
Quote
Ken Sp.
SpotLight can do calculations---just type in, and if you want the calculator-hit the enter/return key

the google search box will do calculations too....
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: June 11, 2012 05:42PM
Quote
Ken Sp.
SpotLight can do calculations---just type in, and if you want the calculator-hit the enter/return key

Handy! Thanks!




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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: tenders
Date: June 11, 2012 05:56PM
Quote
prymsnap
Brother MFC scanner function no longer shows up as a device in Image Capture.

This was not my experience with a 7820N which is several years old. Image Capture pulls in the scanner beautifully. Is all of your software up to date?
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: what4
Date: June 11, 2012 05:58PM
Scollbars. I keep scrollbars on all the time, because I find that finger-scrolling using the trackpad simply does not work at times in certain applications.

The failure is erratic and unpredictable, but at times there simply is NO two-finger trackpad scrolling, period, but the scrollbar works.

I find that Lion has several such things that were not issues in Snow Leopard.

Not displaying window contents. The contents of a window sometimes do not appear. Then they sometimes appear if I click inside the window. Sometimes not.

Display of attached drives. External disks, flash drives, and CDs appear way at the bottom of the sidebar. I have found absolutely NO reason why these should have been moved from the top -- where I frequently used them -- to the bottom of the sidebar. There is no apparent option to change this.

Library folder invisible. As is well known, in Lion you have to take a special step to make the Library folder visible. Probably to protect us from ourselves, Apple made it invisible, which only means that experienced users just have to go to the trouble of Googling the problem and finding out how to solve it. Strange.

Symbolic links and aliases. Symbolic links and aliases are represented in Lion by the same symbol, even though they function differently in some important respects. This is another simplification that makes things more difficult for experienced users.

Over-large windows. Another Lion oddity is that it makes windows excessively large. Windows often fill the screen, or come close, when there is, say, a third of a screen's worth of content in them. This makes juggling multiple windows unnecessarily awkward, and I see no benefit from the larger window display. Indeed, the blank space in an open window is often positively useless, such as leaving a HUGE space to display short filenames, while not showing file date at all.

Delay. There is a delay in Lion that I didn't see in Snow Leopard, even though I am using Lion on a faster computer. Control-click something, delay, menu appears. Snow Leopard didn't have such a delay. That delay comes around at other times, but I can't recall them just now.

Overly subtle use of contrast. Lion must have been designed by young people with perfect eyesight, but I have trouble seeing certain things because the contrast is too low. For example, the horizontal scroll nub underneath a coverflow display of file contents -- it just disappears at times! And the scroll bars, when you turn them on, are teeeeeny! Apple needs to hire more designers who wear bifocals.

Erratic stuff. I can't identify just what this is, but once in a while Lion just DOES something erratic, weird, unexpected. For example, recently I tried to move a window and Lion selected the entire contents of my desktop, started opening every folder and file, then tried to replace Calendar and Contacts databases. Whoa! It took me 15 minutes to get things back to normal. Another time, Firefox just imploded. I had to replace it, delete some pref files, create a new profile and move the contents of the old one into it. Another time, Lion locked me out of my home folder, repeating only that I did not have permission to use it. Luckily, there was help via a web search.

Save As. Lion has done away with Save As in native apps like Preview, replacing it with Duplicate and Export. What The ----??? Save As is used almost universally in applications, and anybody who uses any application understands how it works. Except, now, in Lion.

I've run Lion on an early 2011 MacBook Pro with 8 gigs of RAM. I've run Disk Utility, Cocktail utilities, and DiskWarrior to make sure the hard drive is healthy. (These did help initially.) I've monitored Activity Monitor to make sure some hidden program wasn't hogging RAM and CPU. There is plenty of space on my hard drive.

Now, in conclusion, let me say that Lion is still OS X and that means it brings a great deal of functionality and grace -- though there have been times I thought Lion looked more like Windows than any previous OS X did.

I like this: A few minor improvements have been added to the way you can quick-view a photo, then click to open it in Preview. But you could already do this without quite the elegance.

All in all, I can't identify anything about Lion that makes me think of it as an improvement on Snow Leopard. I probably just don't use the features where the system has been improved, perhaps iPhoto, iChat, and some others I've never touched. I don't know who Lion is for. It's not for me. Indeed, for me, it's not as good as Snow Leopard.

If Apple is using Lion to to take us somewhere more wonderful, I can hardly wait to find out where that is.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: tenders
Date: June 11, 2012 05:58PM
Quote
M A V I C
I've been using it for a month or so now. My complaints:
- Dashboard is now several clicks away instead of one. I use the calculator widget all the time.

My keyboard has a calculator button on it which works without configuration. It must be 12 years old by now and it is possibly the best-thought-out thing from Microsoft I've ever owned.

- Not sure if my scanner will work with it or not

Bet it will.

- SMBX (Apple's proprietary replacement for the open source Samba) doesn't play well with older versions of Samba.

Yeah, this was a big, expensive, stupid, problem. But my new NAS is a heck of a lot bigger, faster, and more capable than the old one.

Other than that, no issues for me.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: June 11, 2012 06:21PM
I haven't moved to Lion yet. Does anyone know if the problems with Lion (e.g. those identified by what4) have been solved, or at least ameliorated, by Mountain Lion.

For $20, I hae me doots.

/Mr Lynn



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2012 06:22PM by mrlynn.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: prymsnap
Date: June 11, 2012 06:30PM
Quote
tenders
Quote
prymsnap
Brother MFC scanner function no longer shows up as a device in Image Capture.

This was not my experience with a 7820N which is several years old. Image Capture pulls in the scanner beautifully. Is all of your software up to date?

Yes, double-checked after reading your post.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: LaserKun
Date: June 11, 2012 06:34PM
None. Wifi printer/scanner, etc all work fine.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: The UnDoug
Date: June 11, 2012 06:40PM
I have a mOuse with a clickable scroll wheel, and when I click it, the dashboard (with calculator) pops up.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: hal
Date: June 11, 2012 07:03PM
Quote
The UnDoug
I have a mOuse with a clickable scroll wheel, and when I click it, the dashboard (with calculator) pops up.

that's a feature - you should be able to set it to do something else
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: Bimwad
Date: June 11, 2012 07:07PM
Quote
M A V I C
- SMBX (Apple's proprietary replacement for the open source Samba) doesn't play well with older versions of Samba.

Tried this?

As for the rest, what4 gives a good summary.

It's fair to ask what more can be done to develop a mature desktop OS when mobile is the future, but a lot of the changes are frivolous, or retrograde.

Mail and Safari are the only apps that seem to still get some love, as the rest of the bundled apps rot. And when a change is made, to something like Address Book, it's a cosmetic abomination and loses functionality.

There is little in Lion, for me anyway, that I can't already do, and do easier and better than in SL.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: chopper
Date: June 11, 2012 07:08PM
For people who actually have to use a computer all day these changes for the sake of change/eye candy are CRAP in Lion.

Why would you get rid of the scrollbar arrows? WHY?
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: June 11, 2012 07:11PM
Quote
Bimwad
. . . There is little in Lion, for me anyway, that I can't already do, and do easier and better than in SL.

Is this the general consensus among Mac users (maybe excluding new users whose first experience of OS X is with Lion)?

If so, is Apple aware that they are not improving the OS with cosmetic changes that reduce functionality and what used to be the gold standard of Apple design, ease of use?

Rhetorical questions, I guess.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: prymsnap
Date: June 11, 2012 07:18PM
Quote
prymsnap
Quote
tenders
Quote
prymsnap
Brother MFC scanner function no longer shows up as a device in Image Capture.

This was not my experience with a 7820N which is several years old. Image Capture pulls in the scanner beautifully. Is all of your software up to date?

Yes, double-checked after reading your post.

And...just called Brother support. Predictably, they said it was an Apple issue. Typical buck-passing.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: GeneL
Date: June 11, 2012 07:24PM
It's obvious that there is little love for Lion among you who posted and I felt that way at first, but after deciding to give Lion another look, I ended up being happy with the main benefit, which for me was a much snappier experience. Apps open faster, Safari also and boot time is so much quicker. The rest is mostly a toss up, since, nowadays, I don't do much except email, contacts and calendar plus internet. No heavy lifting and my interest in photography has wained.

Right now, I'm preparing to upgrade my "main" hard drive to Lion. For the test, I installed Lion on the smaller (100GB) original Apple hard drive that came with my MacPro, so I finally decided that it's time to go for it!



gl @ Dana Point, CA
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: guitarist
Date: June 11, 2012 08:57PM
I'm in agreement with the expert consensus here: I'm clinging to Snow Leopard until at least 2017, won't budge, none of this Lion baloney for me, no sir.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: cowboyxjon
Date: June 11, 2012 09:59PM
I have an older 2008 MacBook Pro at home that has Snow Leopard and a 2011 MacBook Pro at work that runs Lion. My work laptop is the first Mac I've ever had that I don't like -- and it's mostly because of Lion. I find that even though it has 8GB of RAM, silly/erratic things tend to happen, like the system slowing down, Safari re-loading all of my browser tabs and complaining about memory, the fan coming on and running at full speed for no particular reason, etc. I can't really troubleshoot either, since it's a work machine, and I don't feel like getting the IT department involved, though I'm not seeing any problems through Disk Utility or the Activity Monitor.

With that said, I hate the fact that I can't access Dashboard with one easy click. I don't have a magic mouse and when the computer is on my desk at work, it's hooked to a keyboard and mouse, so it's inconvenient to have to reach over to make a gesture on the trackpad. I also don't care for the scroll bars and I've also experienced issues with the scrolling sometimes not working for unexplainable reasons. I also don't like the arrangement of the Finder windows and sometimes Lion forgets that I want to see lists of items in folders and not the three-column view. Overall, I feel like my experience is just not as smooth as it is with Snow Leopard.

My 2008 MacBook Pro with Snow Leopard doesn't have issues like this AND it's an older/slower machine. I much prefer using it and will probably hang on to it for as long as I can.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2012 10:10PM by cowboyxjon.
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: June 11, 2012 10:02PM
Quote
guitarist
I'm in agreement with the expert consensus here: I'm clinging to Snow Leopard until at least 2017, won't budge, none of this Lion baloney for me, no sir.

Good thing Macs last a while. Doubtful if a 2016 Mac will run SL. Maybe OS 9. . .?

Sure am not happy to hear coboyxjon's report!

Is there anyone who likes Lion better than SL?

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: Black
Date: June 11, 2012 11:30PM
Quote
threeprong
Personally, I can't stand the "Save a Version" approach that is now shown in Apple apps that run under Lion.

I just don't get that.

3P

This is essentially my main beef-- I use Preview in Snow for basic image manipulation all the time-- they fracked it up in Lion.



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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: GeneL
Date: June 12, 2012 03:28AM
Quote
mrlynn
Is there anyone who likes Lion better than SL?
/Mr Lynn

The Lion install on my main hard drive is complete and it couldn't have been any easier.

Everything is working just fine and there's no smoke or anything coming out of my MacPro's case.

I made my several fine tuning adjustments (I like the "regular" way to scroll) and now I'm enjoying the speed that I had experienced on the smaller hard drive that I had used to "test" the Lion experience.

For those that don't have a lot of important (to them) apps that won't do well with Lion (I'm not sure what they are), I wholeheartedly recommend the upgrade. old fogey smiley

But then… what do I know? dunno smiley



gl @ Dana Point, CA
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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 12, 2012 06:42AM
I think you have a corrupt install.

Quote
what4
Scollbars. I keep scrollbars on all the time, because I find that finger-scrolling using the trackpad simply does not work at times in certain applications.

The failure is erratic and unpredictable, but at times there simply is NO two-finger trackpad scrolling, period, but the scrollbar works.

I find that Lion has several such things that were not issues in Snow Leopard.

Not displaying window contents. The contents of a window sometimes do not appear. Then they sometimes appear if I click inside the window. Sometimes not.

Display of attached drives. External disks, flash drives, and CDs appear way at the bottom of the sidebar. I have found absolutely NO reason why these should have been moved from the top -- where I frequently used them -- to the bottom of the sidebar. There is no apparent option to change this.

Library folder invisible. As is well known, in Lion you have to take a special step to make the Library folder visible. Probably to protect us from ourselves, Apple made it invisible, which only means that experienced users just have to go to the trouble of Googling the problem and finding out how to solve it. Strange.

Symbolic links and aliases. Symbolic links and aliases are represented in Lion by the same symbol, even though they function differently in some important respects. This is another simplification that makes things more difficult for experienced users.

Over-large windows. Another Lion oddity is that it makes windows excessively large. Windows often fill the screen, or come close, when there is, say, a third of a screen's worth of content in them. This makes juggling multiple windows unnecessarily awkward, and I see no benefit from the larger window display. Indeed, the blank space in an open window is often positively useless, such as leaving a HUGE space to display short filenames, while not showing file date at all.

Delay. There is a delay in Lion that I didn't see in Snow Leopard, even though I am using Lion on a faster computer. Control-click something, delay, menu appears. Snow Leopard didn't have such a delay. That delay comes around at other times, but I can't recall them just now.

Overly subtle use of contrast. Lion must have been designed by young people with perfect eyesight, but I have trouble seeing certain things because the contrast is too low. For example, the horizontal scroll nub underneath a coverflow display of file contents -- it just disappears at times! And the scroll bars, when you turn them on, are teeeeeny! Apple needs to hire more designers who wear bifocals.

Erratic stuff. I can't identify just what this is, but once in a while Lion just DOES something erratic, weird, unexpected. For example, recently I tried to move a window and Lion selected the entire contents of my desktop, started opening every folder and file, then tried to replace Calendar and Contacts databases. Whoa! It took me 15 minutes to get things back to normal. Another time, Firefox just imploded. I had to replace it, delete some pref files, create a new profile and move the contents of the old one into it. Another time, Lion locked me out of my home folder, repeating only that I did not have permission to use it. Luckily, there was help via a web search.

Save As. Lion has done away with Save As in native apps like Preview, replacing it with Duplicate and Export. What The ----??? Save As is used almost universally in applications, and anybody who uses any application understands how it works. Except, now, in Lion.

I've run Lion on an early 2011 MacBook Pro with 8 gigs of RAM. I've run Disk Utility, Cocktail utilities, and DiskWarrior to make sure the hard drive is healthy. (These did help initially.) I've monitored Activity Monitor to make sure some hidden program wasn't hogging RAM and CPU. There is plenty of space on my hard drive.

Now, in conclusion, let me say that Lion is still OS X and that means it brings a great deal of functionality and grace -- though there have been times I thought Lion looked more like Windows than any previous OS X did.

I like this: A few minor improvements have been added to the way you can quick-view a photo, then click to open it in Preview. But you could already do this without quite the elegance.

All in all, I can't identify anything about Lion that makes me think of it as an improvement on Snow Leopard. I probably just don't use the features where the system has been improved, perhaps iPhoto, iChat, and some others I've never touched. I don't know who Lion is for. It's not for me. Indeed, for me, it's not as good as Snow Leopard.

If Apple is using Lion to to take us somewhere more wonderful, I can hardly wait to find out where that is.



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Re: Ok, what are your problems with Lion?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: June 12, 2012 10:47AM
Scrollbars - the settings work fine for me.

Trackpad - haven't it much, so I'm not sure here

Window contents - no issues here

Finder windows sidebar - same issue, I just removed everything I don't want

Invisible Library - I'm pretty quick at the command+shift+g, plus I could just create a shortcut if I used it that much

Symbolic links and aliases - not here, they're the same as SL and all the way back to Classic, IIRC.

Over-large windows - no issue here.

Delay - can't speak on that since I'm using it on a new machine

Overly subtle use of contrast - I can see that. Though, can't some of that be adjusted in the sys prefs?

Erratic stuff - none of that here

Save As. Lion has done away with Save As in native apps like Preview - I don't use native apps so I'm not really sure. To me, it sounds like they renamed it "Save a Version..." which is probably actually a better name.




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