Calls it the "least repairable laptop yet."

Some other highlights (or lowlights):

* Just like in the iPhone 4/4S (and the MacBook Air), proprietary Pentalobe screws prevent folks from accessing the machine’s internals. That means you need a special screwdriver just to remove the bottom cover.

* As in the MacBook Air, the RAM is soldered to the logic board. Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace—you can’t upgrade.

* The proprietary SSD isn’t upgradeable either (yet), as it is similar but not identical to the one in the Air. It is a separate daughtercard, and we’re hopeful we can offer an upgrade in the near future.

* The lithium-polymer battery is glued rather than screwed into the case, which increases the chances that it’ll break during disassembly. The battery also covers the trackpad cable, which tremendously increases the chance that a user will shear the cable in the battery removal process.

* The display assembly is completely fused, and there’s no glass protecting it. If anything ever fails inside the display, you will need to replace the entire (extremely expensive) assembly.

---

The paper plate of computers. Use it once, throw it away.

Maybe that will keep the RAM from coming loose, like it did in my daughter's MBP and rendering one of the slots useless.

Just trying to look at the bright side here. Can't really see this as a good thing.

---

Alpharetta, GA (Atlanta suburb)

So it's essentially an iMacbookPadPro ?

I don't like that strategy. It restricts the useful life of the machine to 2-3 years. iWonder if an add-on Thunderbolt SSD is in the offing ?

sucks for resellers who can make a little money upgrading RAM.

---

[www.giyf.com]

Better buy AppleCare

Way to go Apple, Grrrrrr!

---

Grateful11

covered yesterday in the OWC blog

[blog.macsales.com]

---

----

The Secret Diary of Steve Jobs [www.fakesteve.net]

In retrospect, I will point out that while it's a downside for many of us, the majority of high tech device consumers do NOT want to upgrade them or fuss with them. We're all just kind of weird.

I also expect there *will* be service shops with the necessary vapor flow equipment who will happily 'upgrade' your AirPro. Just leave your Apple warranty at the door, please.

That's good information, and pretty much knocks it out of consideration, at least for me.

So you are locked into custom-ordering at Apple's premium prices if you want maxed RAM and the larger drive (which to me still seems too small).

Quote
cbelt3
In retrospect, I will point out that while it's a downside for many of us, the majority of high tech device consumers do NOT want to upgrade them or fuss with them. We're all just kind of weird.

It's a MacbookPro. The majority of pro users want the ability to upgrade. There's tons and tons of pro users who wont even buy Macs because they can't upgrade the hardware.

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I've been thinking I may have purchased my last MBP. This makes it extremely unlikely I'll get another.

I originally purchased the MBP as a desktop replacement, and it has done that job well. I wanted more mobility than my desktops. But that was pre-iPad. The iPad gives me 90% of the functionality I need while mobile and is WAY more mobile than my laptop.

I'm going back to a desktop for my next Mac. The iMacs have come a long way.

16GB for MBP has been as low as what, $80?

versus $200 from Apple.

maybe if Apple lowers the price differntial for the 16GB to $100...

It is a 15" Air. Any "Pro" should be able to look past the Branding and realize what it is.

---

C(-)ris

Quote
DharmaDog
I've been thinking I may have purchased my last MBP. This makes it extremely unlikely I'll get another.

You are aware that this discussion only concerns the MBP with Retina Display, right?

normal 13" and 15" still have DIY RAM and drive upgrade, some of the easiest ever for a MBP...

MBP benchmarks are actually pretty close to the iMac

---

----

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Quote
C(-)ris
It is a 15" Air. Any "Pro" should be able to look past the Branding and realize what it is.

Yeah, the thing that's puzzling here is the naming. I don't know why they thought calling it a 15" Air was a bad idea. Makes a cleaner distinction between the models. "Pro" and "Pro with retina display" is just stupid nomenclature, IMHO. Thin, light, Air-like computers certainly have good reasons to exist.

The thing that's NOT puzzling, but rather irritating, is the proliferation of internal connector types. This will keep OWC and the like scrambling to offer upgrades, help Apple rake in profits upselling storage and RAM, and will mean fewer economies of scale in the sale of aftermarket parts. Sad after many years of standard 2.5" SATA drives.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2012 11:51AM by thermarest.

iPad Pro with keyboard sans touch screen

"I've been thinking I may have purchased my last MBP. This makes it extremely unlikely I'll get another"





That added to the death of the 17" MBP.





The specs on the 17" Samsung Series Seven are sounding better all the time.

On the other hand, for us bottom feeders it means that used ones will hit the market earlier when you bleeding-edge people unload rather than upgrade!

Quote
C(-)ris
It is a 15" Air. Any "Pro" should be able to look past the Branding and realize what it is.

Yes, it's a 15" Air Pro.

From PC Mag's review:
[www.pcmag.com]
"The new MacBook Pro 15-inch with Retina display outperforms, outclasses, and outlasts… and roars in (like a Lion) to be our new Editors’ Choice for high-end desktop replacement laptops.”

[ emphasis mine ]

Similarly laudatory reviews are coming fast and furious...

Quote
jdc

Quote
DharmaDog
I've been thinking I may have purchased my last MBP. This makes it extremely unlikely I'll get another.

You are aware that this discussion only concerns the MBP with Retina Display, right?

normal 13" and 15" still have DIY RAM and drive upgrade, some of the easiest ever for a MBP...

MBP benchmarks are actually pretty close to the iMac

I did know that, but I think this is indicative of Apple's design direction in the future. I won't be in the market to replace my MBP for about year or more.

The rest of my statement will apply even if the non-retina MBPs don't follow suit with regard to near impossible upgradeability.

I was attracted to the MBP for it's power and mobility. For about the same price, I figure I can get a nicely equipped iMac and an iPad. And get greater desktop power and greater mobility, just not in the same package.

Anyway, I'll get my MBP fix through work.

Quote
cbelt3
In retrospect, I will point out that while it's a downside for many of us, the majority of high tech device consumers do NOT want to upgrade them or fuss with them. We're all just kind of weird.

Exception being all the people who go to repair people to "fix" their computer. The fix is usually something easy like a RAM and/or storage upgrade and a reinstallation of the OS. "No, 512MB is not enough to run OS X, no matter what Apple listed as the minimum specs for 10.4."

Quote
thermarest

this can't be right - I picked up two of the middle ones a few months ago - LONG before the '12 model was introduced. The middle one must be for the 2011 models.

In many PC laptops, you can even upgrade the video card. Apple is doing the exact opposite - not even letting you upgrade basic things that have long been upgradeable parts.

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Quote
DharmaDog
I'm going back to a desktop for my next Mac. The iMacs have come a long way.

True. Then again, the iMac isn't exactly upgrade friendly either. RAM is easy and that's about it.

Quote
M A V I C
In many PC laptops, you can even upgrade the video card. Apple is doing the exact opposite - not even letting you upgrade basic things that have long been upgradeable parts.

Then put up with a fat POS plastic blob of a computer. There is NO WAY to physically fit the ram retention parts and the slots in something that thin. Just like there isn't room for the slot and bracing to hold a replacable video card. If you don't like it, buy the old style Pro and quit complaining about the downsides of the thin form factor.

---

C(-)ris

Quote
C(-)ris

Quote
M A V I C
In many PC laptops, you can even upgrade the video card. Apple is doing the exact opposite - not even letting you upgrade basic things that have long been upgradeable parts.

Then put up with a fat POS plastic blob of a computer. There is NO WAY to physically fit the ram retention parts and the slots in something that thin. Just like there isn't room for the slot and bracing to hold a replacable video card. If you don't like it, buy the old style Pro and quit complaining about the downsides of the thin form factor.

You're calling the older form factor a "fat POS plastic blob"? And come on, why is Apple trying to force people to the thinner form factor just to get things like the RD?

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Quote
C(-)ris

Quote
M A V I C
In many PC laptops, you can even upgrade the video card. Apple is doing the exact opposite - not even letting you upgrade basic things that have long been upgradeable parts.

Then put up with a fat POS plastic blob of a computer. There is NO WAY to physically fit the ram retention parts and the slots in something that thin. Just like there isn't room for the slot and bracing to hold a replacable video card. If you don't like it, buy the old style Pro and quit complaining about the downsides of the thin form factor.

Form over function? As a similar example, the Toshiba Portege (not the Ultrabook model, although that one is really thin and light, yet still has more ports than either Air) is traditionally thicker than the 13" Air, but is almost the same weight (.04 lb difference or so). Because of the increase in thickness, Toshiba is able to fit in more expansion and ports. Neither the "full" size models or Ultrabook models can be considered a large plastic blob.

The new Retina MacBook Pro is nice enough, but a slightly thicker model that was easier to repair/upgrade wouldn't be so bad. Take a page from Toshiba and make something that is still light, but not so thin as to start stripping out genuine features (dropping the optical drive to reduce a little more weight and thickness off the normal MacBook Pro is perfectly acceptable for me). I'm not saying you need to cram in VGA, Ethernet, an optical drive, or even an ExpressCard slot, but something a little less user hostile would be nice. Not every user wants to upgrade their computer, but enough do to make it worthwhile not to punish people who guessed wrong when first speccing out their purchase.

I suppose Apple would point such users to the regular 15" MacBook Pro, but what if I really want the retina display and all the ports/replaceable RAM? There's nothing for me in the lineup.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2012 03:09PM by silvarios.

Quote
M A V I C
You're calling the older form factor a "fat POS plastic blob"? And come on, why is Apple trying to force people to the thinner form factor just to get things like the RD?

Even Apple's old stuff is crap once Apple releases something new. Didn't you know.

normal 13" and 15" still have DIY RAM and drive upgrade, some of the easiest ever for a MBP...

Well, that's a relief. I had missed that crucial info. Good to know that the non-Retina models are still an option: I feel a bit better about them now. Still don't know if I want one, but maybe I can get back to the Apple Store tonight to take another look at the new 15" non-MBP(ad) models.

In the last 36 hours I have decided, based on OSX 10.7 and etc, that I am done buying Apple. I have an offer for a $99 iPhone from Verizon (10 year customer) and I think I'll see what else they have for the same deal.


There's something very sinister in all of this.

Quote
M A V I C

Quote
C(-)ris

Quote
M A V I C
In many PC laptops, you can even upgrade the video card. Apple is doing the exact opposite - not even letting you upgrade basic things that have long been upgradeable parts.

Then put up with a fat POS plastic blob of a computer. There is NO WAY to physically fit the ram retention parts and the slots in something that thin. Just like there isn't room for the slot and bracing to hold a replacable video card. If you don't like it, buy the old style Pro and quit complaining about the downsides of the thin form factor.

You're calling the older form factor a "fat POS plastic blob"? And come on, why is Apple trying to force people to the thinner form factor just to get things like the RD?

No, I was talking about the PCs with replaceable video cards you mentioned. Those are all "fat POS plastic blobs". Apple has never had a replaceable video card in a laptop so I'm not sure how that is even relevant to the new MBP Retina.

The people who want Retina display and also want upgradable ram is a very small percentage of people. Most people who want replacable ram will either 1. Buy the old Pro, or just get the 16GB model. I haven't seen any 32GB upgrades for the old style anyway. I'm not even sure those logic boards can support it. So if 16GB is the max of the logic board, it doesn't matter if it is replaceable.

---

C(-)ris

Quote
C(-)ris
1. Buy the old Pro, or just get the 16GB model. I haven't seen any 32GB upgrades for the old style anyway. I'm not even sure those logic boards can support it. So if 16GB is the max of the logic board, it doesn't matter if it is replaceable.

Paying twice the price for RAM because of a design defect/tradeoff seems silly. Apple has always made nice money off such upgrades, but you used to be able to go third party and save some money. I do get the general point. If 16GB maxes out the system, go ahead and pay the extra 10% of the total system price and future proof yourself up front. Or sacrifice the retina display, go with the normal MacBook Pro, save some cash with a base system, and then budget for upgrades on a future need basis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2012 03:46PM by silvarios.

Quote
C(-)ris
The people who want Retina display and also want upgradable ram is a very small percentage of people. Most people who want replacable ram will either 1. Buy the old Pro, or just get the 16GB model. I haven't seen any 32GB upgrades for the old style anyway. I'm not even sure those logic boards can support it. So if 16GB is the max of the logic board, it doesn't matter if it is replaceable.

I'm going to take a guess that the number of people who want their "pro" laptop to be .24" thinner is far fewer than those who would like to be able to upgrade RAM and/or hard drives. And those who want to upgrade is probably far fewer than those who will pitch their laptop in the trash if their RAM or HD fails.

Apple is making their niche smaller and smaller. They were trying to expand and target enterprises by pointing out that the Apple display is effectively a dock. But no enterprise on the planet is going to buy MBP's that don't allow them to replace their hard drives and RAM, let alone upgrade them.

---

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Quote
M A V I C

Quote
C(-)ris
The people who want Retina display and also want upgradable ram is a very small percentage of people. Most people who want replacable ram will either 1. Buy the old Pro, or just get the 16GB model. I haven't seen any 32GB upgrades for the old style anyway. I'm not even sure those logic boards can support it. So if 16GB is the max of the logic board, it doesn't matter if it is replaceable.

I'm going to take a guess that the number of people who want their "pro" laptop to be .24" thinner is far fewer than those who would like to be able to upgrade RAM and/or hard drives. And those who want to upgrade is probably far fewer than those who will pitch their laptop in the trash if their RAM or HD fails.

Apple is making their niche smaller and smaller. They were trying to expand and target enterprises by pointing out that the Apple display is effectively a dock. But no enterprise on the planet is going to buy MBP's that don't allow them to replace their hard drives and RAM, let alone upgrade them.

What you are really complaining about is that the "old" MacBook Pro doesn't have the retina display. You seem to have issue with everything that defines an ultrabook/air style laptop.

---

C(-)ris

Quote
DharmaDog
I've been thinking I may have purchased my last MBP. This makes it extremely unlikely I'll get another.

I originally purchased the MBP as a desktop replacement, and it has done that job well. I wanted more mobility than my desktops. But that was pre-iPad. The iPad gives me 90% of the functionality I need while mobile and is WAY more mobile than my laptop.

I'm going back to a desktop for my next Mac. The iMacs have come a long way.

I've been thinking along very similar lines lately. I love my MBP (late 2011), but now that I own an iPad I leave the MBP home when I travel. As I also own a current- gen iMac, owning the MBP seems redundant.

The problem is, I love this MBP so much it would be hard to let it go.

---

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Quote
M A V I C
I'm going to take a guess that the number of people who want their "pro" laptop to be .24" thinner is far fewer than those who would like to be able to upgrade RAM and/or hard drives. And those who want to upgrade is probably far fewer than those who will pitch their laptop in the trash if their RAM or HD fails.

Apple is making their niche smaller and smaller. They were trying to expand and target enterprises by pointing out that the Apple display is effectively a dock. But no enterprise on the planet is going to buy MBP's that don't allow them to replace their hard drives and RAM, let alone upgrade them.

Obviously you're right and the folks at Apple who have spent years creating an incredibly successful company based on their ability to design and market electronic devices have no idea what they're doing. Does this mean that Apple is doomed or beleaguered? I always get those two mixed up.

---

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Quote
davester

Quote
M A V I C
I'm going to take a guess that the number of people who want their "pro" laptop to be .24" thinner is far fewer than those who would like to be able to upgrade RAM and/or hard drives. And those who want to upgrade is probably far fewer than those who will pitch their laptop in the trash if their RAM or HD fails.

Apple is making their niche smaller and smaller. They were trying to expand and target enterprises by pointing out that the Apple display is effectively a dock. But no enterprise on the planet is going to buy MBP's that don't allow them to replace their hard drives and RAM, let alone upgrade them.

Obviously you're right and the folks at Apple who have spent years creating an incredibly successful company based on their ability to design and market electronic devices have no idea what they're doing. Does this mean that Apple is doomed or beleaguered? I always get those two mixed up.

Eh, me being wrong or right has nothing to do with the success of Apple.

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Quote
C(-)ris
What you are really complaining about is that the "old" MacBook Pro doesn't have the retina display. You seem to have issue with everything that defines an ultrabook/air style laptop.

Isn't that what many people are complaining about?

Being able to get a cheaper model now and upgrade RAM later is a nice option to have. Not all Ultrabooks strip out as many extra ports, nor do all ultrabooks prevent upgrading RAM. I really hope the non Apple manufacturers don't follow Apple's lead with increasingly non upgradeable parts. Toshiba has a 2.47lb 13" Ultrabook that has a nice selection of ports and if Toshiba kept the internals similar to the previous model, has upgradeable RAM and storage. These are good things. Yes, I do wish Apple had a slightly less drastically reduced MacBook Pro retina model.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2012 05:26PM by silvarios.

Geeeze, some of you people need to get over yourselves.

This is the 15" MBA so many were whining for. Now that it's here, let's all trash it. Because we are all soooo much smarter than Apple and we deserve special consideration.

"WAAAAHHHH!!! WAAAAHHHH!!!! Apple didn't consult me when they made this 'Book!! My little feelings are hurt!"

You're not special, there is no center of the universe, so you can't be it.


Apple is making their niche smaller and smaller.

And that's got to be the dumbest of the dumb statements in this thread, worthy of the AppleInsider forums. Seriously.

If one doesn't want a really thin 'Book that has a great screen, buy anything else. It's really that easy.

This time next year, more models of 'Books will have a Retina display. That'll give you more to whine about.

---

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except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

Pixels were born to be punished. -Frederick Van Johnson

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* Sigs. It's Glocks I hate.

I'm using a 5-year old laptop that's been upgraded RAM, hard drive (to SSD), and optical drive (to hard drive).

If there had been a CPU upgrade option, I'm sure I would have done so.

I am potentially excited by the MBPR, but there are notable negatives:

1) Essentially no upgrade paths except maybe the SSD.

2) The magsafe 2 change is annoying. I have a ton of standard chargers, having to carry around the $10 adapters likely means one would have to go into my wallet for emergencies.

3) The change in all the other ports (ethernet, firewire) at the least adds expense via dongles or hubs. And I'd likely have to carry at least an ethernet dongle for travel.

Apple really is pushing the iPhone product sales approach (they started along these lines when they made the iMac's hard drive non-standard). Basically, plan to replace with a new model in a couple years if you want the latest. I'm a conservative technology consumer - I find this financial model less appealing.

@#$%& Apple.

---

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Quote
chopper
In the last 36 hours I have decided, based on OSX 10.7 and etc, that I am done buying Apple. I have an offer for a $99 iPhone from Verizon (10 year customer) and I think I'll see what else they have for the same deal.


There's something very sinister in all of this.

You might want to save that $99 for tinfoil.

Quote
RAMd®d
Apple is making their niche smaller and smaller.

And that's got to be the dumbest of the dumb statements in this thread, worthy of the AppleInsider forums. Seriously.

It's completely true. Sad that you're calling the comment dumb when you weren't even able to come up with an intelligent reply. As is evident by the number of people here who buy Macs, want a new MBP, but wont buy this one, with these machines Apple is most certainly targeting a much smaller niche than they have in the past.

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There is no reason on earth why that awesome display can't be put on a laptop with user upgradable parts - none! That's the real complaint.

Quote
M A V I C

Quote
RAMd®d
Apple is making their niche smaller and smaller.

And that's got to be the dumbest of the dumb statements in this thread, worthy of the AppleInsider forums. Seriously.

It's completely true. Sad that you're calling the comment dumb when you weren't even able to come up with an intelligent reply. As is evident by the number of people here who buy Macs, want a new MBP, but wont buy this one, with these machines Apple is most certainly targeting a much smaller niche than they have in the past.

In the old days being dissatisfied with anything Apple related meant you simply weren't smart or cool enough to understand the superior platform. Now Apple is more successful than ever, so if you find yourself dissatisfied with anything Apple related you must be an idiot. Either way, Apple can do nothing wrong.

There's no winning. Some people are brand loyalist instead of tech enthusiast.

Quote
davester
Obviously you're right and the folks at Apple who have spent years creating an incredibly successful company based on their ability to design and market electronic devices have no idea what they're doing.

I would argue marketing largely explains their recent success in the mass market. Apple got much better at targeting regular people. Not sure that means their products are always necessarily better than their competitor's offerings. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't, but too often image plays a more important role in purchasing decisions.

Quote
silvarios

Quote
M A V I C

Quote
RAMd®d
Apple is making their niche smaller and smaller.

And that's got to be the dumbest of the dumb statements in this thread, worthy of the AppleInsider forums. Seriously.

It's completely true. Sad that you're calling the comment dumb when you weren't even able to come up with an intelligent reply. As is evident by the number of people here who buy Macs, want a new MBP, but wont buy this one, with these machines Apple is most certainly targeting a much smaller niche than they have in the past.

In the old days being dissatisfied with anything Apple related meant you simply weren't smart or cool enough to understand the superior platform. Now Apple is more successful than ever, so if you find yourself dissatisfied with anything Apple related you must be an idiot. Either way, Apple can do nothing wrong.

There's no winning. Some people are brand loyalist instead of tech enthusiast.

Yep. And the fact that Apple is keeping the previous MBP design and upgradability is just proof positive that they understand the MBPRD's lack of upgradability is going to be a deal breaker for many. I think they're only using the RDs in the new ones to try and give more reason to buy the non-upgradable, non-repairable MBPs. Down the road I think we will see upgradable/repairable MBP's with the RD.

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Quote
silvarios

Quote
davester
Obviously you're right and the folks at Apple who have spent years creating an incredibly successful company based on their ability to design and market electronic devices have no idea what they're doing.

I would argue marketing largely explains their recent success in the mass market. Apple got much better at targeting regular people. Not sure that means their products are always necessarily better than their competitor's offerings. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't, but too often image plays a more important role in purchasing decisions.

Actually, the vast majority of decisions - even technical - are based on perception rather than reality. This test is a great example of that: [www.geekwire.com]

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M A V I C
Down the road I think we will see upgradable/repairable MBP's with the RD.

I'd bet just the opposite. Apple never did like people fooling around inside their Mac's and now they have effectively stopped them. If anything I expect the future MBP will be less upgradeable. I'll go so far as to say you'll see that in the next iMac design too.

Why let people upgrade when you can just sell them a whole new unit. It is the washing machine model - replace rather than repair.

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