My neighbor had trouble burning a DVD from within iMovie this weekend. He has a recent Macbook Pro and he is running Lion. When I volunteered to help him out, I was shocked to find that iDVD didn't come with the computer. I think that there must be a mistake...but lo and behold a search of the forums here reveals that Lion doesn't have iDVD included. Why in the world would Apple cripple their computers like this? Especially since they've included iDVD for a long, long time.


If you are a home user, you expect to be able to burn basic DVD's to share your family videos--the commands are still in iMovie, but unless you have iLife, you can't run it. Absurd.


PS We found Burn from sourceforge and got it to work. It's a basic DVD burn program and was able to convert iMovie exports, but why couldn't Apple put something like this together?

---

All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
Nassau County, NY

Steve's ghost says "Nobody burns DVDs anymore."

iDVD (and the rest of iLife) has never been included as part of the OS, it was part of iLife, a separate product. But iLife was, and still is included with new computers.

The change is that Apple redefined the contents of iLife 11, dropping iDVD and iWeb, and moved the remaining apps to the App Store. I'm guessing the reason why they didn't include iDVD at the App store was due to it's size, and that Apple seems to be killing it along with the DVD drive, which has been eliminated from a number of their newer models.

I've read that some people had luck calling Apple and asking for iDVD for their newly purchased computer and were sent an iLife 11 DVD that included the original iLife 11 apps. I tried that and had no luck, but my computer also originally shipped with Snow Leopard, but had Lion when I purchased it and I was able to get them to send me the Snowleopard Install DVDs that my model shipped with earlier, which included the full iLife.

Show your friend what an AppleTV can do and they'll never want any more DVDs. Think bigger.

I ordered a DVD of iLife 09, which has the last iteration of iDVD (subsequent iLifes did not have updates of iDVD, just iMovie and iPHoto updates. iDVD stayed the same). You can find them on Amazon or ebay. Not sure how well it will run in Lion, but I have a backup of SL just in case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2012 10:39AM by Spiff.

My neighbor wants to burn discs so that he may mail them to grandparents, uncles, and aunts throughout the US. Can Apple TV do this?

---

All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
Nassau County, NY

Toast apparently will do DVD burning. Just won't be a fancy as iDVD.

I believe if you download and install this iDVD 'update', even if you don't have iDVD installed, you will end up with the latest version:

[download.cnet.com]

This is pretty sad. Apple wants to push everyone to online distribution but there's just way too many people for which that's not an option. Recently I made a DVD of someone's wedding so they could send it to their grandparents. Sending them a video to watch online was not an option. I doubt they have internet access, let alone a computer. High speed internet access might not even be available in their area.

Quote
Gilbert
I believe if you download and install this iDVD 'update', even if you don't have iDVD installed, you will end up with the latest version:

[download.cnet.com]

Not a chance, unfortunately:
File size:
36.12MB

iDVD is MUCH larger than that.

---

Help MacInTouch: Buy from Amazon? use this link [amazon.com]
Mac News & Info: [macintouch.com] [macnn.com] [tuaw.com]
Mac Benchmarks: [barefeats.com]
Used Mac Stuff [FS/T]: [macswap.org] LowEndMac Swap List
Mac Software Updates: [macupdate.com]
Fonts: [dafont.com] [fontspace.com]
Online Computer Store With Mac Support: [macsales.com]

I used Disk Utility to burn a DVD recently. Had to create a disk image, first. Old-school, but it got the job done. Still an option in Lion?

Quote
Acer
I used Disk Utility to burn a DVD recently. Had to create a disk image, first. Old-school, but it got the job done. Still an option in Lion?

I'm pretty sure that doesn't create a video DVD.

---

Help MacInTouch: Buy from Amazon? use this link [amazon.com]
Mac News & Info: [macintouch.com] [macnn.com] [tuaw.com]
Mac Benchmarks: [barefeats.com]
Used Mac Stuff [FS/T]: [macswap.org] LowEndMac Swap List
Mac Software Updates: [macupdate.com]
Fonts: [dafont.com] [fontspace.com]
Online Computer Store With Mac Support: [macsales.com]

Quote
M A V I C

Not a chance, unfortunately:
File size:
36.12MB

iDVD is MUCH larger than that.

This 'udpate' will install iDVD but not the templates. Once you run the program and try to select a theme, you will be prompted to download the templates via Software Update (download is ~700MB).

Quote
M A V I C
This is pretty sad. Apple wants to push everyone to online distribution but there's just way too many people for which that's not an option. Recently I made a DVD of someone's wedding so they could send it to their grandparents. Sending them a video to watch online was not an option. I doubt they have internet access, let alone a computer. High speed internet access might not even be available in their area.

I concur.

I wonder if Pacifist could be used on my distribution of 10.6 to Lion?

---

All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
Nassau County, NY

Quote
Gilbert

Quote
M A V I C

Not a chance, unfortunately:
File size:
36.12MB

iDVD is MUCH larger than that.

This 'udpate' will install iDVD but not the templates. Once you run the program and try to select a theme, you will be prompted to download the templates via Software Update (download is ~700MB).

Very cool. Thanks for the info.

---

Alpharetta, GA (Atlanta suburb)

Quote
Gilbert

Quote
M A V I C

Not a chance, unfortunately:
File size:
36.12MB

iDVD is MUCH larger than that.

This 'udpate' will install iDVD but not the templates. Once you run the program and try to select a theme, you will be prompted to download the templates via Software Update (download is ~700MB).

Cool. Thanks.

---

All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
Nassau County, NY

Quote
wowzer

Quote
M A V I C
This is pretty sad. Apple wants to push everyone to online distribution but there's just way too many people for which that's not an option. Recently I made a DVD of someone's wedding so they could send it to their grandparents. Sending them a video to watch online was not an option. I doubt they have internet access, let alone a computer. High speed internet access might not even be available in their area.

I concur.

I wonder if Pacifist could be used on my distribution of 10.6 to Lion?

Sorry, I disagree. Apple's job is not to bundle software for the least common denominator. Sure there will always be someone's grandparents who don't have internet access, what if they don't have a DVD player either? Does that mean Apple needs to ship iVHS with their operating systems?

Burning DVDs is no longer a need for the mainstream. Tools, good tools, still exist for the job. I don't find this sad, or a responsibility of Apple to include this type of functionality ad infinitum.

Quote
DRR

Quote
wowzer

Quote
M A V I C
This is pretty sad. Apple wants to push everyone to online distribution but there's just way too many people for which that's not an option. Recently I made a DVD of someone's wedding so they could send it to their grandparents. Sending them a video to watch online was not an option. I doubt they have internet access, let alone a computer. High speed internet access might not even be available in their area.

I concur.

I wonder if Pacifist could be used on my distribution of 10.6 to Lion?

Sorry, I disagree. Apple's job is not to bundle software for the least common denominator. Sure there will always be someone's grandparents who don't have internet access, what if they don't have a DVD player either? Does that mean Apple needs to ship iVHS with their operating systems?

Burning DVDs is no longer a need for the mainstream. Tools, good tools, still exist for the job. I don't find this sad, or a responsibility of Apple to include this type of functionality ad infinitum.

I could understand that, but since iDVD is freely available (now that I know) and still incorporates nicely into iMovie, why didn't they just include it and stop support/development on it?

---

All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
Nassau County, NY

"Show your friend what an AppleTV can do and they'll never want any more DVDs. Think bigger."

I suspect that if Apple came out and said, you know what, instead of including (a valuable piece of software with the purchase of a computer, a program which Apple is known to offer and for it to be an easy way for the layman to accomplish something previously complex) we are instead going to recommend that you find some puppies and grind them up into tiny bits.

And if consumers came forward and complained about the puppy grinding, that there are certain elements of this forum who would blindly support puppy grinder option, saying, 'I've always thought that there are too many puppies'.

Blind faith is a remarkable and sad thing at times.

Quote
Gilbert

Quote
M A V I C

Not a chance, unfortunately:
File size:
36.12MB

iDVD is MUCH larger than that.

This 'udpate' will install iDVD but not the templates. Once you run the program and try to select a theme, you will be prompted to download the templates via Software Update (download is ~700MB).

Just tried it because this new MBP doesn't have iDVD.

iDVD 7.0.4 or later is required to install this update.

Wish it were so :/

Quote
DRR
Sorry, I disagree. Apple's job is not to bundle software for the least common denominator. Sure there will always be someone's grandparents who don't have internet access, what if they don't have a DVD player either? Does that mean Apple needs to ship iVHS with their operating systems?

Burning DVDs is no longer a need for the mainstream. Tools, good tools, still exist for the job. I don't find this sad, or a responsibility of Apple to include this type of functionality ad infinitum.

Across the majority of the country, DVDs are still mainstream. We're not talking about outdated technology here. DVDs are still the only viable option for many. It's not like they can just upgrade like they could from VHS to DVD. Apple has took on the job and made it their responsibility to provide DVD creation software.

And what's a good replacement for iDVD?

---

Help MacInTouch: Buy from Amazon? use this link [amazon.com]
Mac News & Info: [macintouch.com] [macnn.com] [tuaw.com]
Mac Benchmarks: [barefeats.com]
Used Mac Stuff [FS/T]: [macswap.org] LowEndMac Swap List
Mac Software Updates: [macupdate.com]
Fonts: [dafont.com] [fontspace.com]
Online Computer Store With Mac Support: [macsales.com]

Quote
deckeda
Show your friend what an AppleTV can do and they'll never want any more DVDs. Think bigger.

Yes, others have already covered this, but even so, this is shockingly bad advice. "Don't like something Apple has changed, give Apple more money to fix the problem," doesn't go over well with normal people. I used to think the same way, then I looked at the money I spent with Apple to stay on an upgrade treadmill. Great for Apple's ballooning profits, not so great for me.

I just asked my mom (a fairly regular home tech user) how she would share a video of my daughter with other family members. She figured the easiest way would be either to mail a physical copy (CD, USB key, DVD data file) or burn an actual DVD video disc and mail it. Can't attach large files via email and can't be sure people will follow a link to download the video file.

No, buying everyone an Apple TV and then sharing an iCloud account is not a feasible solution.

Quote
wowzer
My neighbor wants to burn discs so that he may mail them to grandparents, uncles, and aunts throughout the US. Can Apple TV do this?

No. Even if each recipient purchased an Apple TV, who would configure it for the network (assuming they owned a router and had broadband Internet access) and then input the login for the shared iCloud account (or other Internet media sharing service compatible with the Apple TV)? Very weird suggestion, eh?

Quote
DRR
Sorry, I disagree. Apple's job is not to bundle software for the least common denominator. Sure there will always be someone's grandparents who don't have internet access, what if they don't have a DVD player either? Does that mean Apple needs to ship iVHS with their operating systems?

Burning DVDs is no longer a need for the mainstream. Tools, good tools, still exist for the job. I don't find this sad, or a responsibility of Apple to include this type of functionality ad infinitum.

What Tool do you suggest that formerly shipped free with the Mac? There was a tool, it came bundled with every new Mac (the models with a DVD burner anyway), and it worked fine. Deprecating it is fine, but why abandon the users.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2012 02:20PM by silvarios.

Dumping optical is going to be 100x harder for Apple than dumping the floppy.

So long as they support iDVD - and include it in all external USB optical drives Apple sells, we will be ok.

But I fear Apple is going to pull a Lion and just dump support in an OS update.

Quote
silvarios

Quote
DRR
Sorry, I disagree. Apple's job is not to bundle software for the least common denominator. Sure there will always be someone's grandparents who don't have internet access, what if they don't have a DVD player either? Does that mean Apple needs to ship iVHS with their operating systems?

Burning DVDs is no longer a need for the mainstream. Tools, good tools, still exist for the job. I don't find this sad, or a responsibility of Apple to include this type of functionality ad infinitum.

What Tool do you suggest that formerly shipped free with the Mac? There was a tool, it came bundled with every new Mac (the models with a DVD burner anyway), and it worked fine. Deprecating it is fine, but why abandon the users.

I never claimed there was something that formerly shipped free with the Mac. The tool I was referring to is Toast. It's still quite capable under Lion, of creating a DVD. Probably even more so than iDVD ever was.

Don't make this out like they're "abandoning the users" either. It's a newer Macbook Pro, it shipped with Lion, and it doesn't include iDVD. That's somehow Apple's fault? They're not updating that product anymore. It did ship free with Macs, and it still works fine on those Macs under those operating systems. If you bought one of those Macs, the iDVD that shipped free with it still works just fine.

Apple isn't stealing any functionality away from anyone, wowzer's neighbor bought a new computer and it doesn't include that feature/software. Lion never included iDVD. You didn't buy it. Your ignorance as a consumer is no reason to blame the company.

Quote
DRR
I never claimed there was something that formerly shipped free with the Mac. The tool I was referring to is Toast. It's still quite capable under Lion, of creating a DVD. Probably even more so than iDVD ever was.

Have you ever used iDVD? I've used Toast since the mid 90's. I like it. But for creating video DVDs with good interfaces, iDVD is WAAAAY better than Toast (albeit, I haven't use the latest version of Toast. It's possible they went from clunky to clean but I doubt it.)

Quote

Don't make this out like they're "abandoning the users" either. It's a newer Macbook Pro, it shipped with Lion, and it doesn't include iDVD. That's somehow Apple's fault? They're not updating that product anymore. It did ship free with Macs, and it still works fine on those Macs under those operating systems. If you bought one of those Macs, the iDVD that shipped free with it still works just fine.

Apple isn't stealing any functionality away from anyone, wowzer's neighbor bought a new computer and it doesn't include that feature/software. Lion never included iDVD. You didn't buy it. Your ignorance as a consumer is no reason to blame the company.

Apple still says they ship those Macs with iLife. iLife has _always_ included iDVD. iLife '11 originally shipped with iDVD. The new version they're shipping should at least have a little * next to it to tell us it's a modified version.

---

Help MacInTouch: Buy from Amazon? use this link [amazon.com]
Mac News & Info: [macintouch.com] [macnn.com] [tuaw.com]
Mac Benchmarks: [barefeats.com]
Used Mac Stuff [FS/T]: [macswap.org] LowEndMac Swap List
Mac Software Updates: [macupdate.com]
Fonts: [dafont.com] [fontspace.com]
Online Computer Store With Mac Support: [macsales.com]

test

weird, trying to post a link but I keep getting an error saying a word has been banned.

---

The Taoist Zhuangzi said, "Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone".
The sociologist, and historian, Adam Ferguson described the phenomenon of spontaneous order in society as the "result of human action, but not the execution of any human design".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 04:12PM by Monster.

trying to post a link for "W onder share" DVD Creator

guess that word up there in quotes is a bad word.

---

The Taoist Zhuangzi said, "Good order results spontaneously when things are let alone".
The sociologist, and historian, Adam Ferguson described the phenomenon of spontaneous order in society as the "result of human action, but not the execution of any human design".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 04:15PM by Monster.

Wonder Share

Yep, as one word it's banned.

---

Help MacInTouch: Buy from Amazon? use this link [amazon.com]
Mac News & Info: [macintouch.com] [macnn.com] [tuaw.com]
Mac Benchmarks: [barefeats.com]
Used Mac Stuff [FS/T]: [macswap.org] LowEndMac Swap List
Mac Software Updates: [macupdate.com]
Fonts: [dafont.com] [fontspace.com]
Online Computer Store With Mac Support: [macsales.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 05:37PM by M A V I C.

My recommendation to consider an AppleTV was made because I failed to read wowzer's mind, where it was later revealed his neighbor was interested in distribution. Puppy grinding? That's the dumbest analogy I've read in a while, chopper. At least make it paraplegic unicorns or misunderstood aliens.

For many years I've shared short videos online, and no, not by emailing them for crying out loud. Image and video hosting is old tech, which should raise the comfort level here appreciably. It even forces you to strictly self-edit, for the blessed benefit of your viewers who aren't really as into that video as you assume.

Quote
chopper
Blind faith is a remarkable and sad thing at times.

I'm more cynical than you. Many people who spout very company specific advice are shareholders looking for a better return on their investment or shills like Gruber, Siegler, and Dilger. With the latter, their entire career is built around spouting pro Apple propaganda. I never liked Siegler, but once upon a time I read Daring Fireball and occasionally Roughly Drafted. Alas, no more.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2012 12:32PM by silvarios.

Quote
deckeda
For many years I've shared short videos online, and no, not by emailing them for crying out loud. Image and video hosting is old tech, which should raise the comfort level here appreciably. It even forces you to strictly self-edit, for the blessed benefit of your viewers who aren't really as into that video as you assume.

Two things, not everyone has broadband. I actually have quite a few 720p home videos. Even if the compression has improved, the files are still rather large. Two, not everyone wants to watch movies on their computer (or are even capable of downloading the movie to begin with, literally thinking about my grandma in this case). Some people like to lean back and enjoy the experience on a TV.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2012 12:35PM by silvarios.

Quote
DRR
Don't make this out like they're "abandoning the users" either. It's a newer Macbook Pro, it shipped with Lion, and it doesn't include iDVD. That's somehow Apple's fault?

Emphasis mine. That's the funniest part of your post. Regardless how you feel about Apple's decisions, yes the lack of iDVD on recent Macs is clearly Apple's fault. Who else could have pulled iDVD from the default shipping configuration? Gnomes?

Also worth noting, I've never burnt a DVD. Never. Not once. I don't own any DVD media. However, I know my use case is not the same as every user. Clearly quite a few people over the years have found a need to put data on a DVD or have authored a DVD for video playback. I've never uploaded a video to Youtube or other traditional video hosting service either. I am not a normal user.

Quote
silvarios

Quote
deckeda
For many years I've shared short videos online, and no, not by emailing them for crying out loud. Image and video hosting is old tech, which should raise the comfort level here appreciably. It even forces you to strictly self-edit, for the blessed benefit of your viewers who aren't really as into that video as you assume.

Two things, not everyone has broadband. I actually have quite a few 720p home videos. Even if the compression has improved, the files are still rather large. Two, not everyone wants to watch movies on their computer (or are even capable of downloading the movie to begin with, literally thinking about my grandma in this case). Some people like to lean back and enjoy the experience on a TV.

I'm aware most people's broadband sucks, as well as the fact that not everyone whose broadband sucks has bothered to see if it can be improved by signing up with competition, if available. Or even within their existing ISP.

Regarding watching on TV, my other recommendation also takes care of that, but I understand how not everyone would want to buy an AppleTV yet won't blink at spending for a DVD player. Perception of value is a funny thing.

We can continue to poke every single available hole in what I suggested, after the fact, having the luxury of hindsight and yet further info not originally shared, or we can take it for what it is and realize other workflows and considerations are assumed understood, unless this has become a 100% newbie forum. You're also free to speculate on my motives for suggesting an Apple product in an Apple-centric forum, which I find really funny. Either way, have fun.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2012 09:08AM by deckeda.

Quote
deckeda
Regarding watching on TV, my other recommendation also takes care of that, but I understand how not everyone would want to buy an AppleTV yet won't blink at spending for a DVD player. Perception of value is a funny thing.

Most people already own a DVD player. Shoot! Even I own a DVD player. My PS2 plays DVDs. My mother still has the DVD player I got her 10 years ago (nice Panasonic unit, no HDMI or upscaling, but still works well enough). $100 versus using something you already own is a hard argument to make.

The problem with your suggestion is that you still haven't explained how to get the movie to the Apple TV. There's no local storage so even if one wanted to, there's no way to buy the Apple TV, load up the file(s), and then ship it. Even if the recipient of the Apple TV were comfortable with adding the device to their network, what method would one use to transfer the video(s) to the Apple TV? Further, which is better in this case, streaming locally or via the net? By itself, the Apple TV doesn't solve the problem at hand.

Sure, the Apple TV has its places. If this is a one off mailing of a DVD that is not likely to reoccur, of if reoccurrence is not routine, suffice it to say, this is not one of those places.

Quote
deckeda
You're also free to speculate on my motives for suggesting an Apple product in an Apple-centric forum, which I find really funny. Either way, have fun.

When did I speculate about your motives? I thought your advice was bad for many reasons and stated why.

Did you mean my response to chopper? I didn't make a comment about any specific forum member or the forum in general, but in fact sited well known Apple shills in the "media". Sure, some people have blind faith (that would have been me not too long ago), while some people are shills, but sometimes a suggestion can simply miss the mark. Are you saying you only suggested the Apple TV because it is an Apple product? That's not how I took your comments.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2012 02:05PM by silvarios.