Poll

Has Apple become a lot less "lovable," lately?

Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll.
46 votes were received.

Yes	21		46%
No	14		30%
I'm in the middle	11		24%

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First, there was the issue with my two expensive Apple modems not working with Lion (not 64bit) and no fix from Apple.

With the huge balance that Apple retains from its profits, which for years was made possible by its loyal customer base, I thought that a driver could have possibly been written at a small expense to Apple.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but there were hundreds, if not thousands of online requests for this from Apple customers.

I'm angry because this seems to underline a clear change in Apple's "taking care" of its loyal customer base.

Another issue that I have is with the short turn around from Lion to Mountain Lion.

In the past, we've had a reasonable period to get around to upgrading and then we had some time to learn the ins and outs of the new system and to become comfortable with it.

I just recently upgraded "successfully" to Lion after an earlier brief try out that didn't inspire me to continue. Now, I'm cruising along, enjoying some of the "new" goodies that I've found and boom! Mountain Lion comes along and its forbidden to my early MacPro.

In itself, that might not have been a big problem, but when a new OS comes along, all the attention (read as "tips and updates," particularly the necessary updates that offer, among other things, security protection) goes on to the latest and greatest.

So now, all the attention, the articles, tips and updates that I see are directed at ML.

What if some little trick or method is found for Lion, so what! Now, everything is aimed at polishing ML and me being stuck in Lion, with no more love.

My point, and the source of my anger is that while Apple used to balance what was good for the company with what was good for the loyal customers, now it seems the focus has narrowed down to what is good for the company…period!

I could be wrong, but tell me… didn't it used to feel like the corporate culture was, "let's build our company by insuring that every customer, young or old, technically savvy or newbie, who supports us will feel that we support them as well.

I don't get that feeling any more. In fact, the last few times that I went into an Apple Store, the feeling I had was that there were a bunch of kids standing around or running around or talking among themselves. When I asked a pretty basic question about Lion, their eyes rolled and they made it clear that they weren't prepared to answer anything so specific.

It was as if the were there selling toasters or boom boxes and that was it. Anything more and I had to talk to a grownup.

I did have a conversation with a young man who was sitting at a table labeled "Training." He seemed to have a minute, so I engaged him and got an answer that I had been looking for, but beyond that, he kind of revealed what was going on behind the curtain.

From what he told me, apparently Apple is now totally focused on the "FUTURE," which seems to mean that they can't or won't slow down or spend time with anything that isn't about refining the
"process" or the "hardware" that will be the shape of the future.

It's about moving the market (that's us, btw) to a new way of being integrated into an environment where Apple supplies everything we need to get up in the morning to the time we go to bed at night. It's no longer about Macbook or MacPros, it's about making everything as integrated into our lives as the electricity that we have come to depend on and need to know no more about than to plug something in and to turn a switch on or off.

Interestingly, the topic that steve… posted below, about the Leap device, fits right in with this integration. Only it seems to me that devices based on some kind of direct input from our brains will "leap frog" (pardon the pun attempt) past hardware solutions like the Leap.

So will the future with Apple or other similar companies, be much like dealing with utilities like the electric company? We all love the electric companies, don't we?

I'm feeling a bit unfocussed (lack of sleep), so please forgive my rambling and if you have any thoughts about what I've said, please add a few comments.

Are you in any way angry with Apple, whatever the reason?

…end of rant!

---

gl @ Dana Point, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 03:05AM by GeneL.

You are in a dream world. Apple has screwed its existing customers for years. I remember the Mac IIvx pricing debacle back in 1992.

Yes lately Apple has played a bit nicer, but I feel some of that has been due to bad press, not a change of heart. Example: Apple decided to issue refunds - in Apple credits - on the big iPhone price cut after backlash in the press.

>>Mountain Lion comes along and its forbidden to my early MacPro.

You can get around that.

[www.j4mie.co.uk]

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The current and future wave's Dylan's "Your old world is rapidly changing. Get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand."

A friend keeps reminding me that Apple's not for the faint of heart and if I'm not prepared to fork over more, more and yet more $$$ to have the luxury of up-to-the-minute operating systems and elegant, stable, and reliable products, I should quit my whining and switch to the dark side. It's old ideas about customer appreciation and longevity that slow progress and hold back innovation.

That said, I'm never liable to own a Mercedes, so I'll work hard to keep the '99 Ranger w/ 274K running.

Move over, man; I need a seat on your bus too.

I'm in the middle. mrthuse, I also keep things a long time. I'm still using a 12 year old Mac Pro G4! My newest car is 10 years old... everything I have is like me - old. But, I do like trying to keep up with new technology, I just don't buy it right away. One of the reasons I like the site, lowendmac.com

Apple has NEVER bee "all good." It's NOT "all bad" now.

"We" have always been bitchin' about something here. Especially how Apple determines just "who" their "Market" is. If it is not YOU, life still goes on.

I am currently very happy on Snow Leopard. Just because Apple releases something, it certainly doesn't mean YOU have to go out and buy it.

CHILL man, you are starting to make me uptight! ! ! ! ! !

Wishing you more sleep and better Zen . . .

---

Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace

I'll give you an example of an annoyance where I think Apple is being too draconian:

I have a number of bluetooth devices that I'd like to write apps for to control through my iPhone. However, Apple makes it very hard for app developers to write for bluetooth devices; in fact, unless the device is approved and you are a part of an expensive dev program (in addition to the regular $100/year you pay as a developer), you can't write an app that connects to the device. Oh, and as an independent developer, I can't even pay to join that dev program -- you have to be at least a mid-sized company.

So, I'm completely restricted from developing these apps for the iPhone, and so I've begun developing for Android phones, which do not have that restriction.

I am still surprised Lion was such a fiasco and I'm waiting to see a few updates to ML before even thinking of going to 10.8. I know a lot of members have no issues with Lion but I've read so many negatives that it surprises me that it's an Apple product. I too am very happy to stay at SL for now.
It seems to me Apple is concentrating more on the future of the iPad and iPhone. I will also be sticking with my mid 2010 iMac and C2D MBP as long as possible-I like having an optical drive. And I still have my 15" PB G4 that is long in the tooth but still works just fine...

Your sense that Apple cared in the way you describe is/was a self-induced illusion, supported by many others with the same problem.

Apple has not changed. It is designing and building products it thinks people will buy. The products evolve at a rate that is determined to be the most effective for continued growth.

From my perspective it seems that Lion (and perhaps ML as well) is an interim OS, a transition OS which is moving us from the PPC-Intel-Snow Leopard era to the iOS era. Just conjecture based on hindsight on my part.

Some hate it. Some love it. Most just go with the flow. One can do more with the current OS than the prior OS. This is always the case. Some hardware and some software gets left behind. My neighbor's 1990 Cadillac still runs fine and gets him where he wants to go. It just doesn't have all of the options/features, and perhaps comfort of the latest models.

Apple has decided that there are suffcient alternatives to your modem based on the demand for those alternative uses, won't support them anymore. You have a choice: Keep using what you have, as it fills your needs nicely, or move on, finding another way to meet those needs.

You still have all of the options you have always had: stand pat or take a hit.

I have 2 of my 3 Macs in a "end state": ML is probably the last new OS that will work on them. My daughter is stuck on Snow Leopard with all of her Macs,and is quite happy. Those Macs are quite capable of filling her family's needs for several more years.

I understand you need for venting, but when you are finished, nothing will have changed. You will still face the same dilemma. It's time to spend your energy on how to deal with it.

---

Mr. Curmudgeon, on Mountain Lion.

You're working yourself up into some sort of "Apple Depression" here.



Below are 10 forms of twisted thinking according to David Burns, M.D., author of “the Feeling Good Handbook.”
Another great resource for cognitive behavioral therapy is Recovery, Inc. Founded by Abraham Low, this program teaches techniques to analyze negative thoughts (or identify distorted thinking) so to be able to disarm and defeat them. You can get to Recovery, Inc. by clicking here.
1. All-or-nothing thinking (a.k.a. my brain and the Vatican’s): You look at things in absolute, black-and-white categories.
2. Overgeneralization (also a favorite): You view a negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat.
3. Mental filter: You dwell on the negatives and ignore the positives.
4. Discounting the positives: You insist that your accomplishments or positive qualities don’t count (my college diploma was stroke of luck…really, it was).
5. Jumping to conclusions (loves alcoholic families): You conclude things are bad without any definite evidence. These include mind-reading (assuming that people are reacting negatively to you) and fortune-telling (predicting that things will turn out badly).
6. Magnification or minimization: You blow things way out of proportion or you shrink their importance.
7. Emotional reasoning: You reason from how you feel: “I feel like an idiot, so I must be one.”
8. “Should” statements (every other word for me): You criticize yourself or other people with “shoulds,” “shouldn’ts,” “musts,” “oughts,” and “have-tos.”
9. Labeling: Instead of saying, “I made a mistake,” you tell yourself, “I’m a jerk” or “I’m a loser.”
10. Blame: You blame yourself for something you weren’t entirely responsible for, or you blame other people and overlook ways that you contributed to a problem.

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MR/F Guestmap: [www.mapservices.org]

I voted "No" because it is not just lately.

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in tha 510.

Gene starting this topic here is like trying to decode why people are devout about religion and will have about as much success trying to get the point across that a great many are disappointed by Lion and whatever crap comes after. I am.

Quote
GeneL
First, there was the issue with my two expensive Apple modems not working with Lion (not 64bit) and no fix from Apple. . .

Does that mean that if I upgrade my iMac to Mountain Lion (I'm on Snow Leopard), my Apple Modem won't work any more?

I use PageSender to receive and send faxes (yes, I've still got a foot in the faxing world, obsolete though it may be), which is a great boon, as they don't get printed to paper unless I want them to. And I can fax directly from my computer, when necessary.

So will PageSender not update their drivers?

Guess I'd better ask. . .

I like SL fine, but would like to sync Contacts and Bookmarks through iCloud, so ML looked like the way to go.

/Mr Lynn

---

"Hillbilly at Harvard"
Honky-tonk Country and Bluegrass
Founded in 1948 by Pappy Ben Minnich
Saturdays 9am - 1pm Eastern
WHRB-FM, Cambridge, MA
Streaming at [www.WHRB.org]
Be there!
New blog! [hillbillyatharvard.wordpress.com]

On the river in Saxonville.

we've been rehashing this continuously for some time now. The reasons vary wildly but it seems that people either fall into one of two camps -

ARRRRRG!!!

or

Whats you problem??

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I'm in the "What's your problem?" camp. You bought a mac. It does what you want. The fact that it is possible to sometimes install a newer and better operating system on the mac you bought is a bonus feature that was not implicit in your purchase. It's simply a lucky happenstance or free bonus. If it works, then great. If it doesn't, then be happy with what you bought and quit yer complainin'.

---

"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland

Stuff I don't like:

- The don't have an expandable, headless, minitower Mac that would be roughly equivalent to an iMac. I ended up building my own Windows 7 machine because I couldn't get what I wanted from Apple.

- iTunes Match has had a lot bugs for me, and I finally stopped using it. Their tech support on this issue has been terrible.

- iTunes has become too bloated.

- If all MBPs become as un-ugradeable and the Retina MBP, I will probably never buy another one.

Quote
Black
Below are 10 forms of twisted thinking according to David Burns, M.D., author of “the Feeling Good Handbook.”
Another great resource for cognitive behavioral therapy is Recovery, Inc. Founded by Abraham Low, this program teaches techniques to analyze negative thoughts (or identify distorted thinking) so to be able to disarm and defeat them. You can get to Recovery, Inc. by clicking here.
1. All-or-nothing thinking (a.k.a. my brain and the Vatican’s): You look at things in absolute, black-and-white categories.
2. Overgeneralization (also a favorite): You view a negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat.
3. Mental filter: You dwell on the negatives and ignore the positives.
4. Discounting the positives: You insist that your accomplishments or positive qualities don’t count (my college diploma was stroke of luck…really, it was).
5. Jumping to conclusions (loves alcoholic families): You conclude things are bad without any definite evidence. These include mind-reading (assuming that people are reacting negatively to you) and fortune-telling (predicting that things will turn out badly).
6. Magnification or minimization: You blow things way out of proportion or you shrink their importance.
7. Emotional reasoning: You reason from how you feel: “I feel like an idiot, so I must be one.”
8. “Should” statements (every other word for me): You criticize yourself or other people with “shoulds,” “shouldn’ts,” “musts,” “oughts,” and “have-tos.”
9. Labeling: Instead of saying, “I made a mistake,” you tell yourself, “I’m a jerk” or “I’m a loser.”
10. Blame: You blame yourself for something you weren’t entirely responsible for, or you blame other people and overlook ways that you contributed to a problem.

not to hijack a thread but thank you, i needed that. got the book on my amazon to buy list.

---

"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

Quote
Black
You're working yourself up into some sort of "Apple Depression" here.



Below are 10 forms of twisted thinking according to David Burns, M.D., author of “the Feeling Good Handbook.”
Another great resource for cognitive behavioral therapy is Recovery, Inc. Founded by Abraham Low, this program teaches techniques to analyze negative thoughts (or identify distorted thinking) so to be able to disarm and defeat them. You can get to Recovery, Inc. by clicking here.
1. All-or-nothing thinking (a.k.a. my brain and the Vatican’s): You look at things in absolute, black-and-white categories.
2. Overgeneralization (also a favorite): You view a negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat.
3. Mental filter: You dwell on the negatives and ignore the positives.
4. Discounting the positives: You insist that your accomplishments or positive qualities don’t count (my college diploma was stroke of luck…really, it was).
5. Jumping to conclusions (loves alcoholic families): You conclude things are bad without any definite evidence. These include mind-reading (assuming that people are reacting negatively to you) and fortune-telling (predicting that things will turn out badly).
6. Magnification or minimization: You blow things way out of proportion or you shrink their importance.
7. Emotional reasoning: You reason from how you feel: “I feel like an idiot, so I must be one.”
8. “Should” statements (every other word for me): You criticize yourself or other people with “shoulds,” “shouldn’ts,” “musts,” “oughts,” and “have-tos.”
9. Labeling: Instead of saying, “I made a mistake,” you tell yourself, “I’m a jerk” or “I’m a loser.”
10. Blame: You blame yourself for something you weren’t entirely responsible for, or you blame other people and overlook ways that you contributed to a problem.

David Burns is pretty good. I liked his "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy". I disagree that it can replace drugs for everyone, but I'm a big believer in cognitive therapy.

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"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 10:36AM by $tevie.

I'm pretty ticked off about the iCloud thing. Sorry, but I resent having my PAID service taken away from me with no recourse and replaced by something I can't access unless I buy a new computer. Did it really have to go like that? I'm actually going to PAY Amazon for their cloud service because it's easy and it's convenient and they don't penalize me for having an older computer.

---

"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Quote
$tevie
I'm pretty ticked off about the iCloud thing. Sorry, but I resent having my PAID service taken away from me with no recourse and replaced by something I can't access unless I buy a new computer. Did it really have to go like that? I'm actually going to PAY Amazon for their cloud service because it's easy and it's convenient and they don't penalize me for having an older computer.

Just curious what features of MobileMe you're referring to? The main thing I used was email, and that was still supported on older systems after the transition, so iCloud actually saved me money, but I don't use any features of it other than to retain my @mac.com/@me.com email accounts.

Quote
mrlynn

Quote
GeneL
First, there was the issue with my two expensive Apple modems not working with Lion (not 64bit) and no fix from Apple. . .

Does that mean that if I upgrade my iMac to Mountain Lion (I'm on Snow Leopard), my Apple Modem won't work any more?

I use PageSender to receive and send faxes (yes, I've still got a foot in the faxing world, obsolete though it may be), which is a great boon, as they don't get printed to paper unless I want them to. And I can fax directly from my computer, when necessary.

So will PageSender not update their drivers?

Guess I'd better ask. . .

I like SL fine, but would like to sync Contacts and Bookmarks through iCloud, so ML looked like the way to go.

/Mr Lynn

It is Apple that needs to update the drivers for the Apple USB modem. The reason they do not work past 10.6 is that the driver is 32-bit, Lion and ML require 64-bit drivers. Apple has shown no sign that they are even considering doing so.

As for a modem, if you need one that works with ML it will have to be a hardware modem. The OS will work fine with one as only the standard USB serial port driver is needed.

Quote
GGD

Quote
$tevie
I'm pretty ticked off about the iCloud thing. Sorry, but I resent having my PAID service taken away from me with no recourse and replaced by something I can't access unless I buy a new computer. Did it really have to go like that? I'm actually going to PAY Amazon for their cloud service because it's easy and it's convenient and they don't penalize me for having an older computer.

Just curious what features of MobileMe you're referring to? The main thing I used was email, and that was still supported on older systems after the transition, so iCloud actually saved me money, but I don't use any features of it other than to retain my @mac.com/@me.com email accounts.

Well, I may have combined two tangentially related thoughts. One: that you can shut down a paid service without so much as an apology. And Two: that you think it's a good business model to alienate long-time customers by treating them as old newspapers to be discarded.

I had to download a third-party app to resolve my Calendar problems, I had to move all my old pages of pics to Facebook, I had to set up my email to be automatically forwarded from my iCloud account to my ancient aol account because Mail couldn't be set up to read the iCloud mail, in short I have had to find non-Apple solutions to my most basic needs. If it wasn't for the hardware I'd tell Apple to go take a long walk on a short pier because I really am not finding any of this "easier than Windows" at this point.

---

"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

$tevie- I'm with you on some of this. I did get my .mac mail addy working with Mail on my SL Macbook (the solution was posted here, IIRC so let me know if you want me to dig it up for you.)

I switched to a Google calendar which seems to be working OK with iCal on my MacBook and my iPhone. Sad about the gallery pages I lost. I still have the images, of course, but sad about the easy way to publish and share them.

DM



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 12:33PM by dmann.

Quote
$tevie
I had to set up my email to be automatically forwarded from my iCloud account to my ancient aol account because Mail couldn't be set up to read the iCloud mail, in short I have had to find non-Apple solutions to my most basic needs.

Apple Mail (on Snow Leopard at least) can be setup to read/send iCloud mail, I'm doing it without problem, and I had posted links in the past to your posts saying that it can't be done before MobileMe had been shutdown. The only new quirk is that you need to use IMAP, they killed the POP access.

[forums.macresource.com]
[forums.macresource.com]

As for the other features, I never used them, but can see your point about them.

Well, I'm not even on Snow Leopard yet and without telling my personal life I will just say I'm not going to be on Snow Leopard for a while.

---

"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Okay, I may have misread the opening paragraph before: If you setting up an existing iCloud account on a pre-Lion Mac you will not be able to access iCloud's facilities. You may be able to set up calendar syncing on Snow Leopard by means of an unsupported hack, and there is a convoluted hack which has been reported as working for Address Book (and reported as not working by others - I've not tried it), but these will not work on Leopard; and neither can access any of iCloud's other facilities. as meaning I wouldn't be able to get to my mail.

Still and all, iCloud is basically worthless for me and I maintain that it is sheer obstinacy on Apple's part. A freaking Cloud doesn't have to be OS dependent, they are just being p***ks about it.

---

"Stop thinking about art works as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences." ~ Brian Eno

Quote
$tevie
Okay, I may have misread the opening paragraph before: If you setting up an existing iCloud account on a pre-Lion Mac you will not be able to access iCloud's facilities. You may be able to set up calendar syncing on Snow Leopard by means of an unsupported hack, and there is a convoluted hack which has been reported as working for Address Book (and reported as not working by others - I've not tried it), but these will not work on Leopard; and neither can access any of iCloud's other facilities. as meaning I wouldn't be able to get to my mail.

Still and all, iCloud is basically worthless for me and I maintain that it is sheer obstinacy on Apple's part. A freaking Cloud doesn't have to be OS dependent, they are just being p***ks about it.

It's been so profitable for them you can't really blame them. BUT, it's going to eventually bite them in the behind. Google makes their stuff work with all platforms. Apple makes great stuff, but they're always chasing the next skirt and marginalizing their current diehards thinking where are they gonna go? Kinda like black people and the Democratic Party.

The Mac OS. That's all they have left that truly matters. The only thing they make that's distinctly superior. They're suing other companies into the ground basically because when it comes to the toys (pads, phones and pods), the competition has caught up and eventually, the competition is going to wear them down. They need to get back to dazzling Mac Users. Those of us that "need" their equipment based on the superior Mac OS in order to make our livings.

Quote
vision63
. . . The Mac OS. That's all they have left that truly matters. The only thing they make that's distinctly superior. They're suing other companies into the ground basically because when it comes to the toys (pads, phones and pods), the competition has caught up and eventually, the competition is going to wear them down. They need to get back to dazzling Mac Users. Those of us that "need" their equipment based on the superior Mac OS in order to make our livings.

Aren't the "toys" making Apple a lot more money than the Mac, these days? I suspect Apple intends to dumb down the Mac OS to make it more appealing to "toy" users, vast numbers of whom have never owned a Mac.

Where is the next Apple Computer (not just 'Apple') going to come from?

/Mr Lynn

I liked the Mac GUI. Then I liked that Apple wasn't Monopoly$oft. Then I liked the cool hardware. Now those are no longer so compelling, especially now that Apple dumps support for older hardware so quickly. I used to harass the IT folks at work because my old Mac would still run the newest OS, albeit a bit slowly. No more.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.