I registered with a big acoustic guitar forum, but I can't log in for some reason.

I have a Martin D-28 I bought new in 1972. It was built in 1971. Supposedly, sometime around 1970, Martin started sucking. They "overbuilt" the guitars because they were getting too many returns on their lifetime warranty, so the legend goes. Mine is very heavy compared to other Martins.

I had an authorized Martin repairman reset the neck and it plays great. But, it sounds awful. Everyone I play it for says so to my face. I showed to to a local luthier who is getting a good reputation. He said it is likely because the bone saddle tilts forward. The routed out ebony bridge looks like this, where it should be straight up and down:

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Here is a picture of a saddle that is straight. Mine leans forward (to the left of the picture.)



The side toward the soundhole slopes and is a little sloppy, but not enough to put a shim in it and try to stand the saddle up straight. I messed with seeing how the saddle fits and discovered it has a plastic shim less than a 1mm under the bone. It was glued, but I knocked it loose.

He also said the bass side of the saddle should be angled farther toward the back than it already is.

Anyway, it sounds awful, especially the big E. I conceded it may be a lemon, but my friend said he remembered it sounding good in the 80's and I shouldn't give up on it. The local luthier said he would set a new saddle up straight and maybe fill the bridge slot and re-rout it with more of an angle and cut a cleaner slot from the get-go for $75. He said if that didn't fix it, he would replace the oversized (not a good thing) rosewood bridge plate on the inside for another $75. Also, the Martin repairman put in a one-piece maple plate on the underside of the bridge to keep the ball-ends from digging into the wood. The local luthier wasn't too keen on that.

So, my friend is confident redoing the saddle will fix it, but I don't want to throw $75 or $150 away. Does anyone have any experience with tilted bridges?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2012 01:47AM by Dennis S.

May be forum member and luthier, Lost In Space, will chime in on this one?

[www.patfosterguitars.com]

OK. I can visualize the problem, I think. The bottom of the saddle is nice and flat. If it leans forward even slightly, it's making almost no contact on the bottom with the ebony bridge. Not good.

Just make a new saddle from thicker stock and eliminate the shim, also check the intonation with a good tuner before you change anything else. I don't think the neck reset would change the intonation much (and I've done a few), but it won't hurt to check.

Can you possibly take it to the Martin factory in eastern PA so they can look at it??? I've toured the plant and they have a large section devoted to fixing their old guitars.

Out of curiosity, how does the D-28 compare with an older 0018 ? I have my father's 0018. Some day I *need* to learn how to play it. For now it's in a case, unstrung and stored in a careful environment.

cbelt, the OO18 is a "grand concert" size guitar (OO indicates the size) compared to the larger "dreadnought" ("D". The 18 indicates that it has less ornamentation and generally lower quality woods than a 28, though either of them are high quality guitars.

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"So be proud to be a decent American instead of just a w'anker whipping up fear!" - Michael D. Higgins, President of Ireland

You're right, unfortunately, about many Martins that were made in the 70's being dogs. As someone who worked on 48th St in NYC in the early 70's I can attest to that.

Usually if your saddle tilts forward it might not be making contact, as mentioned above and if that's happening you will have sound transference loss and thus tone loss. You might also want to check the bracing behind the bridge.

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JoeM

The Martin factory is too far. There are Martin Authorized repairmen spread across the country. The one I used for the neck-set and new saddle apparently didn't do a good job on the saddle. The neck and intonation seem good. There are 2 frets that buzz - the 8th fret is poking up a little on the treble side and the 16 buzzes pretty bad.

I can't believe I didn't understand the leaning saddle right away. The bottom is flat, so if it's tilted the least bit, it's resting on it's edge, so 80% or more is not even touching. I had a bass nut that had a V cut into the nut instead of a U and the string was caught in the sides of the V instead of touching the bottom. It sounded awful.

I had written the D-28 off as a lemon but a friend who has been playing it said he remembers it sounding good in the 80's. I'm pretty confident fixing the saddle will help a lot.

The luthier in town is meticulous, so I think he'll fix it right.

cbelt, keep that Martin comfortable in the house. There is a theory that not having strings up to pitch will cause the neck to move. There's another theory that keeping it up to pitch stresses it. You'll need to ask an expert, or someone here may know. It's not one of the most desired Martins, but it still has some value. Do not refinish it or swap parts so it will maintain its value. Remember that any problems can be fixed for surprisingly little money - cracks, gouges,holes, missing parts, broken trim, bad frets. All of that stuff is a piece of cake for a repairman to fix. If a piece - neck, top, back, side, is beyond repair, a new one can be put on. The parts themselves are not outrageously priced and the repair labor is not brain surgery. The only major repair is a neck re-set and that should be well less than $500.

There are sites where you can look it up by serial number and find out when it was made or call Martin. That's always good to know.

If you still want more input, I can post to the Acoustic Guitar Forum for you... you should still be able to read any responses without having to login. But I think the part about the saddle not touching the bridge is the key. IMHO.

Thanks rz. It has to be the bad saddle placement. I'm going to experiment with stuffing some sandpaper with aluminum oxide* under the bridge to make better contact. I'm going to join the Acoustic Guitar Forum. I want to check on a 1/8 vs. 3/32 and also ask about an extra long saddle and about replacing the oversized bridge plate.

* supposedly used as shim material since it's so hard

Quote
Dennis S

Does anyone have any experience with tilted bridges?

Does tilting at windmills count?
Might have better luck around here...


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Dumb question from a total guitar novice who's only trying to help: Could the saddle have been accidentally installed facing the wrong direction during the neck reset, and might turning it around help the situation? Or is there no way that could possibly be the problem?

No. The bass side is a little higher. It does fit the slot, but the contour of the top is different and the grooves for the strings are different sizes. It does still slant when you do that, though.

One quick thing you can try: shim the front side of the slot where the tilt is occurring. The shim would have to keep the tilt from occurring. If the tension pulls the saddle forward, it won't work.

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JoeM