advertisement
Forums

The Forum is sponsored by 
 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the Tips and Deals forum
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: October 28, 2014 09:53PM
The fight over privatization is over, in case it's not obvious. We're not going backward now, no matter how many launches explode. Neoliberalism won, period. Sorry to the NASA fans who want to go back to spending significant percentages of GDP on space exploration, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

What are you talking about? Neoliberalism?

The spending levels we saw during Apollo were never going to be sustainable. I'm still a NASA fan, I still see NASA doing space exploration, and I'm very happy to see private companies take over doing the stuff that we already know how to do, like launching big dumb rockets. We need NASA to do stuff we don't know how to do, like go to Mars. Yes, there will be failures. There will always be failures. This is big news because failures are pretty rare. Using the shuttle to send astronauts to the space station was an obscene waste of money, and as unseemly as it is to pay the Russians for rides, it is strictly temporary. I loved the shuttle but it's time was done.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 28, 2014 10:08PM
Quote
Pam
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
DP
The fight over privatization is over, in case it's not obvious. We're not going backward now, no matter how many launches explode. Neoliberalism won, period. Sorry to the NASA fans who want to go back to spending significant percentages of GDP on space exploration, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

So we keep giving money to the Russians instead?

Again, i DON'T AGREE with this development. I think it was short-sighted and a failure of vision. One result is that the U.S. is currently 100% dependent on a foreign power (all based on non-treaty agreements, as it happens) to get astronauts to and from the ISS. It was a stupid thing to do, and an expensive one.

I'm not defending the way this has played out, but to pretend that it's going to retrogress and we're going to go back to the 'old way' of doing things is naive. There's simply no political possibility of that happening now.

And the reason for this situation was not neoliberalism.

I have pretty much no idea what you're talking about here. The project of neoliberalism was, primarily, one of relocating national projects from the public to the private sector, regardless of whether those projects required public funding. That is precisely what has happened with the U.S. space program, for ostensibly 'fiscal' reasons.

The privatization of formerly public utilities (including space exploration) is a chief achievement of the neoliberal agenda. To suggest that it's not related to the outsourcing of spaceflight to new, modern corporations like Orbital Sciences and Space X is preposterous. We're bidding space exploration to the lowest bidder.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: $tevie
Date: October 28, 2014 10:14PM
Panic at the press site:
[www.youtube.com]



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: October 28, 2014 10:28PM
We're bidding space exploration to the lowest bidder.

Surely you are aware that's always been the case. Who do you think was responsible for the crappy wiring that caused the Apollo 1 fire? The lowest bidder!



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 28, 2014 10:42PM
Quote
cbelt3
The Nedelin disaster - named after the General who required safety procedures to be circumvented and technicians to be inside the danger zone during launch . The General was one of the victims ..

Thanks, I hadn't heard about this before.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Black
Date: October 28, 2014 11:46PM
To my untrained eye, it looked like what happened was the aft-assembly of the solid-rocket 1st stage blew off. Once the nozzle was gone the vehicle went from stream to spray like removing the nozzle of a garden hose. The Solids course could no longer provide thrust so the ascent stalled. The question remains whether blowing the back end of the rocket off was an intentional part of Range Safety. The root cause could be loss of guidance.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: October 29, 2014 12:00AM
Antares first stage is two liquid fuel LOX/RP-1 (kerosene) engines.
Looked like one failed, then the other. Once it hit, the first stage split, big fire, then the upper stage solid motor disassembled itself in a bright and spectacular fashion.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Black
Date: October 29, 2014 12:02AM
Quote
Paul F.
Antares first stage is two liquid fuel LOX/RP-1 (kerosene) engines.
Looked like one failed, then the other. Once it hit, the first stage split, big fire, then the upper stage solid motor disassembled itself in a bright and spectacular fashion.

That too.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Racer X
Date: October 29, 2014 12:20AM
they call that an "unplanned energetic disassembly" in the lingo. Those are my favorite.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: jdc
Date: October 29, 2014 12:37AM
Quote
$tevie
Panic at the press site:
[www.youtube.com]

That was hilarious.



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Pam
Date: October 29, 2014 04:38AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Pam
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
DP
The fight over privatization is over, in case it's not obvious. We're not going backward now, no matter how many launches explode. Neoliberalism won, period. Sorry to the NASA fans who want to go back to spending significant percentages of GDP on space exploration, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

So we keep giving money to the Russians instead?

Again, i DON'T AGREE with this development. I think it was short-sighted and a failure of vision. One result is that the U.S. is currently 100% dependent on a foreign power (all based on non-treaty agreements, as it happens) to get astronauts to and from the ISS. It was a stupid thing to do, and an expensive one.

I'm not defending the way this has played out, but to pretend that it's going to retrogress and we're going to go back to the 'old way' of doing things is naive. There's simply no political possibility of that happening now.

And the reason for this situation was not neoliberalism.

I have pretty much no idea what you're talking about here. The project of neoliberalism was, primarily, one of relocating national projects from the public to the private sector, regardless of whether those projects required public funding. That is precisely what has happened with the U.S. space program, for ostensibly 'fiscal' reasons.

The privatization of formerly public utilities (including space exploration) is a chief achievement of the neoliberal agenda. To suggest that it's not related to the outsourcing of spaceflight to new, modern corporations like Orbital Sciences and Space X is preposterous. We're bidding space exploration to the lowest bidder.

I stand corrected. My eco knowledge from the 70's didn't keep up with this term. I have a better name for it. Greed.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Will Collier
Date: October 29, 2014 06:50AM
I had no idea until yesterday that Antares uses 40-year-old repurposed motors that were intended for the Soviet N-1, which is crazy in more ways than I can count. That was the most insane booster ever built (mentioned earlier in the thread, the first N-1 launch failure wiped out the Sov general in charge of their moon program, among many others).
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: October 29, 2014 09:19AM
The area between Wallops and Chincoteague islands is a beautiful marsh brimming with wildlife. The most upsetting thing to me is the damage caused to this wetlands. We probably lost thousands of shorebirds and the fish and shellfish that sustain them. I hope they move these launches to Edwards in the future.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: October 29, 2014 09:21AM
Quote
Gutenberg
The area between Wallops and Chincoteague islands is a beautiful marsh brimming with wildlife. The most upsetting thing to me is the damage caused to this wetlands. We probably lost thousands of shorebirds and the fish and shellfish that sustain them. I hope they move these launches to Edwards in the future.

Right... So on an easterly launch trajectory, they can fly (or drop debris) over unimportant areas.. like Las Vegas.. or the San Fernando Valley.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Acer
Date: October 29, 2014 09:48AM
Quote
Paul F.
Quote
Gutenberg
The area between Wallops and Chincoteague islands is a beautiful marsh brimming with wildlife. The most upsetting thing to me is the damage caused to this wetlands. We probably lost thousands of shorebirds and the fish and shellfish that sustain them. I hope they move these launches to Edwards in the future.

Right... So on an easterly launch trajectory, they can fly (or drop debris) over unimportant areas.. like Las Vegas.. or the San Fernando Valley.

Launching from central Manhattan is clearly the only other option after Wallops Island.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Pam
Date: October 29, 2014 10:04AM
Quote
Gutenberg
The area between Wallops and Chincoteague islands is a beautiful marsh brimming with wildlife. The most upsetting thing to me is the damage caused to this wetlands. We probably lost thousands of shorebirds and the fish and shellfish that sustain them. I hope they move these launches to Edwards in the future.

It exploded near the shoreline, not wetlands. Any birds or wildlife in the that area would have scrammed at the first noise and vibration of the launch. They may find a few wildlife casualties but not thousands.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: maco
Date: October 29, 2014 10:37AM
Antares rocket explosion: The question of using decades-old Soviet engines

The tale of the engines that propelled the Antares rocket, which exploded in a spectacular ball of flame in Virginia Tuesday night, begins four decades ago, thousands of miles away, in the land of communism and Sputnik. There, in the Soviet Union, rocket scientists conceived and built dozens of rocket engines meant to power Russian astronauts into the cosmos. But it didn’t work out that way.

Instead, all four launches of the mighty N1 Soviet rocket, which used an earlier iteration of the first-stage engines used in Thursday’s launch, failed between 1969 and 1972. And as the Soviet Union abandoned the idea of putting cosmonauts on the moon, those engines languished in Russia “without a purpose,” reported Space Lift Now.

[www.washingtonpost.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 10:37AM by maco.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: October 29, 2014 10:40AM
N-1 never used the NK-33 engine... it used the earlier NK-15.
NK-33 was built after the spectacularly fatal RUD.
From what I'm reading on the nasaspaceflight.com forums, the NK-33 is not a bad engine, especially after Aerojet's VERY extensive refurbishment process, just in limited supply with uncertain future supplies.
However, Aerojet has enough in-hand to complete the entire contract of Antares/Orbital missions, plus a dozen to spare.

Quote
Will Collier
I had no idea until yesterday that Antares uses 40-year-old repurposed motors that were intended for the Soviet N-1, which is crazy in more ways than I can count. That was the most insane booster ever built (mentioned earlier in the thread, the first N-1 launch failure wiped out the Sov general in charge of their moon program, among many others).



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: October 29, 2014 12:38PM
I watched a really cool documentary on YouTube about these engines. They were ordered destroyed by Soviet leaders, but the engineers and scientists disobeyed those orders. Instead, they sat in a warehouse for decades.

I think it was this one: [www.youtube.com]



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Will Collier
Date: October 29, 2014 12:45PM
Quote
Gutenberg
The area between Wallops and Chincoteague islands is a beautiful marsh brimming with wildlife. The most upsetting thing to me is the damage caused to this wetlands. We probably lost thousands of shorebirds and the fish and shellfish that sustain them. I hope they move these launches to Edwards in the future.

Um, an Edwards launch would travel east over most of the continental US. Not a great idea.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: billb
Date: October 29, 2014 01:29PM
Quote
Gutenberg
The area between Wallops and Chincoteague islands is a beautiful marsh brimming with wildlife. The most upsetting thing to me is the damage caused to this wetlands. We probably lost thousands of shorebirds and the fish and shellfish that sustain them. I hope they move these launches to Edwards in the future.

Right, launch over all those easily replaceable two legged mammals calling Los Angeles home instead. RollingEyesSmiley5
NIMBY



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 01:32PM by billb.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: maco
Date: October 29, 2014 05:21PM
View from a Cessna at 3,000'

[www.youtube.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: October 29, 2014 05:37PM
Quote
maco
View from a Cessna at 3,000'

[www.youtube.com]

Cool video!! thumbs up



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Antares Launch
Posted by: Pam
Date: October 29, 2014 06:48PM
[www.nasa.gov]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 228
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 5122 on October 03, 2020