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Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: December 28, 2014 08:11AM
Last night before going to bed I checked my email. There was a message from "Chase Fraud Alert":

Quote

FRAUD PROTECTION
SERVICES
Account Ending: xxxx

We want to help keep your account secure so we continuously monitor it for possible fraudulent activity. We're writing to verify whether the transactions below were authorized by you or another Cardmember. Click YES below if you recognize the transactions and NO if any transactions are unrecognized.

alert On 12/27/2014 2:02 PM, a transaction in the amount of $2.32 was declined at: EASTGATE HTL, NY
alert On 12/27/2014 3:57 AM, a transaction in the amount of $1138.47 was declined at: PAKISTAN INT PK ZWGYFF

I wondered if this might be a phishing attempt, so rather than clicking I called Chase's customer-service number. I got a robot which asked me if one or more of those charges were invalid, and I said yes. Then it asked me to wait for a rep. That took about 15 minutes on hold, but I finally got someone (it was about 12:30 AM EST), who told me that the account would be closed because of fraud, and they would send me new cards.

I'm happy that Chase was able to not only detect, but decline, the two charges. I wonder how they knew to do that—some kind of algorithm that detects out-of-the-ordinary charge attempts? The rep told me these were Internet charges, but we do a number of those from time to time, sometimes from vendors we've not used before.

Anyway, thanks to Chase.

/Mr Lynn



"Hillbilly at Harvard"
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Founded in 1948 by Pappy Ben Minnich
Saturdays 9am - 1pm Eastern
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Be there!

The HAH weblog: [hillbillyatharvard.wordpress.com]

Topical weblog: [walkingcreekworld.wordpress.com]

On the river in Saxonville.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 28, 2014 08:14AM
From where did you get the Chase customer-service number you called?
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: space-time
Date: December 28, 2014 08:25AM
they know everything about you and your travel and spending habits.

Example: I live in NJ, went to FL last year. I bought plane tickets with Amex, made car reservation with Amex. They knew I was traveling and approved all charges

I went by car to CT during Thanksgiving weekend. I filled up with gas in NJ before I left, and used my car. Amex had no idea I was traveling. I went to a Target in NJ and card was declined. Paid with cash. a minute later I got an email on my phone, I had two options, I chose to recognize the charge and then card worked at gas station an even same Target store later that day when I went back to buy something else.

in your case, a large amount in Pakistan when you had no plans to travel triggered the alert. if you had plane tickets booked with the same card, I think they would have approved it.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: voodoopenguin
Date: December 28, 2014 08:41AM
Quote
space-time

in your case, a large amount in Pakistan when you had no plans to travel triggered the alert. if you had plane tickets booked with the same card, I think they would have approved it.

Damn, that's where I went wrong. OK, trying again with plane tickets first. I think I'll use Abuja this time.

Paul



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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: December 28, 2014 08:48AM
Quote
DeusxMac
From where did you get the Chase customer-service number you called?

I called the number on my statement, not the number on the email.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: testcase
Date: December 28, 2014 08:51AM
$2.32 is an unusual amount, especially at a NY hotel. Very likely to be a test charge to see if it would go through before trying a large amount. Charges not made from your phone or, other device recognized as belonging to you, would be another warning the card company could spot.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Pops
Date: December 28, 2014 08:58AM
Quote
mrlynn
I finally got someone (it was about 12:30 AM EST), who told me that the account would be closed because of fraud, and they would send me new cards.
That's the cheapest way out for them. At least you didn't click on any link in the email. I'm always so fearful about older people, unfamiliar, will do that, and then type in information.

Excuse me... I have an important email from Mr Peter Attah of Nigeria to attend to. He says the bank may be somewhat delayed in clearing the funds he's sent me.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: December 28, 2014 09:20AM
Aren't some companies using smart cards that change numbers all the time, or something like that? I didn't think to ask if a more advanced card were available.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: December 28, 2014 09:27AM
Test,

Actually... It may have been a temporary hold. Hotels will do that when guests sign in to account for room charges and other itemsthat might be charged to the bill, i.e. room service, gift shop, restuarant in the hotel, etc. Sometimes the hold is for a nominal amount, other times it's a significant amount. Either way, it's a common practice and the hotel never tells you how much they are "holding" when you sign the dotted line.

I'm glad Chase caught the charges for MrLynn, regardless of the source. It's fraud one way or the other. No doubt, Chase's system has an understanding of his normal spending patterns and those were flagged as not being within them.

Robert
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: space-time
Date: December 28, 2014 09:30AM
Quote
mrlynn
Aren't some companies using smart cards that change numbers all the time, or something like that? I didn't think to ask if a more advanced card were available.

/Mr Lynn

no, I don't think so. They may come up with cards that have electronic chips in addition or instead of magnetic strip, and they may require a pin, but I don't think the numbers change on the card itself. You were probably thinking of virtual card numbers, which you can generate online or via a stand alone application which works only in Windows (I am allowing at you Citi bank) and you can use those for online shopping, even set your own expiration dates and max amounts, but you cannot use those in retail stores as far as I know.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: max
Date: December 28, 2014 09:45AM
Quote
Robert M
Test,

Actually... It may have been a temporary hold. Hotels will do that when guests sign in to account for room charges and other itemsthat might be charged to the bill, i.e. room service, gift shop, restuarant in the hotel, etc.
Test is actually correct, a small charge is a typical test for validity of the newly acquired card number, as testcase stated, before the actual bigger hit is executed.
The fraud algorithms are set up for that....
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: December 28, 2014 09:53AM
MAx,

Test could be right but what I said about hotels is correct as well. There was an article about credit card holds and such initiated by hotels in the 12/28 issue of Newsday in its Travel section. Just read about it a few minutes ago. I'm trying to get a link for the article but I don't think it's available on the web site yet.

Robert
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: yeoman
Date: December 28, 2014 10:09AM
I have text alerts enabled for every international transaction and when cc is used when card not present. Also, depending on the card issuer, I have text alerts for transaction of $1 or more to alert me to the very same test charge as the NY $2.32 mentioned. I really like this service from Amex and Visa.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: December 28, 2014 10:44AM
Good job Chase ! My stupid bank didn't contact me until my limit was hit when my card was used in Panama ( the country) to buy plastic surgery and a week in a villa.

" are you in Panama ?"
" the country?"
" yes .."
" um .. no ! I've never even further south than Florida !"
"Did you authorize someone to use your card in Panama ?"
" no !"
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: space-time
Date: December 28, 2014 10:56AM
Quote
Robert M
MAx,

Test could be right but what I said about hotels is correct as well. There was an article about credit card holds and such initiated by hotels in the 12/28 issue of Newsday in its Travel section. Just read about it a few minutes ago. I'm trying to get a link for the article but I don't think it's available on the web site yet.

Robert

Nobody said you were incorrect Robert, no need to defend your argument when no one attacked it. Since Mr Lynn was not at that hotel, it is clear that it was a test to see if the card worked.

To make it clear: both you and test case are correct, except test case was spot on and you talked about a possibility which did not happen here.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: December 28, 2014 11:41AM
Space,

Max said I was incorrect, which is why I went into more detail. The fact is Test is probably spot on. But, the possibility that the info I referenced from Newsday is high on the list. Neither of us knows with certainty. These days, fraudsters are capable of anything including stuff that you would think is unlikely to the point that it wouldn't happen. Either way, Chase caught the fraud which is, as far as I'm concerned, is a great thing.

Funny... Typically, posts like this usually garner a response from forumites who dislike large banks like Chase and assertions that the bank did it to protect itself instead of the customer. I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up by anyone yet.

Robert
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: space-time
Date: December 28, 2014 11:58AM
Quote
Robert M
Space,

Max said I was incorrect, which is why I went into more detail. ...
Robert

no he didn't; at least I cannot see where Max said that you were incorrect. What I see is that Max says test is correct. He did quote you, but he did not say you were incorrect.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: max
Date: December 28, 2014 12:02PM
True dat
I did not say Robert was incorrect, I did say that testcase was correct. One does not preclude the other.

I am not familiar with the situation Robert described, but I have seen exactly the same pattern described by testcase. Hence my comment.
Amex algorithm picked up on the scam without my involvement. ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2014 12:03PM by max.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Robert M
Date: December 28, 2014 12:06PM
Max,

Need to offer you an apology because I misinterpreted your post. I saw it as an implication that Test was right and I was wrong when it's possible we could both be correct, as you just pointed out. I'll go a step further and say Test and I could both be wrong, too. I just wish none of us had to deal with this kind of crap in the first place and am pleased that Chase (and other providers) take steps to prevent it.

Robert
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: jdc
Date: December 28, 2014 12:08PM
How did you determine the email you revived was actually real and not a phishing email to start with?



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: max
Date: December 28, 2014 12:23PM
Quote
Robert M
Max,

Need to offer you an apology because I misinterpreted your post.

Thanks Robert, there was no need to apologize, I should have been clearer.

However this thread should be a reminder to look at your cc statements and not be dismissive of the miniscule charges as being inconsequential....
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: MarkD
Date: December 28, 2014 12:28PM
If they cancel your card, please ask and insist that the CC company to send the replacements as quickly as possible, i.e. overnight. If you need a statement for the card before it was canceled, print from online or ask them for one--otherwise, they seem to just lump the charges together.
The other tip is to keep a list of which cards are used for auto-charging for activities ranging from the toll road to other charges.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Black
Date: December 28, 2014 12:42PM
Quote
jdc
How did you determine the email you revived was actually real and not a phishing email to start with?

I wondered if this might be a phishing attempt, so rather than clicking I called Chase's customer-service number. I got a robot which asked me if one or more of those charges were invalid, and I said yes.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Black
Date: December 28, 2014 12:44PM
Quote
space-time
they know everything about you and your travel and spending habits.

Example: I live in NJ, went to FL last year. I bought plane tickets with Amex, made car reservation with Amex. They knew I was traveling and approved all charges

I went by car to CT during Thanksgiving weekend. I filled up with gas in NJ before I left, and used my car. Amex had no idea I was traveling. I went to a Target in NJ and card was declined. Paid with cash. a minute later I got an email on my phone, I had two options, I chose to recognize the charge and then card worked at gas station an even same Target store later that day when I went back to buy something else.

in your case, a large amount in Pakistan when you had no plans to travel triggered the alert. if you had plane tickets booked with the same card, I think they would have approved it.

I think you're a little off here. Charges in disparate geographical locations in a short time may be set up to be a special trigger, but there are clearly factors that are weighted much stronger-- number of charges in a specific time period, number of charges of a certain type relative to your usual pattern, and specific retailer to name a few of the biggies. Target is absolutely going to trigger a hold faster than most other retailers for all of us, for example.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: space-time
Date: December 28, 2014 01:36PM
Quote
Black
Quote
space-time
they know everything about you and your travel and spending habits.

Example: I live in NJ, went to FL last year. I bought plane tickets with Amex, made car reservation with Amex. They knew I was traveling and approved all charges

I went by car to CT during Thanksgiving weekend. I filled up with gas in NJ before I left, and used my car. Amex had no idea I was traveling. I went to a Target in NJ and card was declined. Paid with cash. a minute later I got an email on my phone, I had two options, I chose to recognize the charge and then card worked at gas station an even same Target store later that day when I went back to buy something else.

in your case, a large amount in Pakistan when you had no plans to travel triggered the alert. if you had plane tickets booked with the same card, I think they would have approved it.

I think you're a little off here. Charges in disparate geographical locations in a short time may be set up to be a special trigger, but there are clearly factors that are weighted much stronger-- number of charges in a specific time period, number of charges of a certain type relative to your usual pattern, and specific retailer to name a few of the biggies. Target is absolutely going to trigger a hold faster than most other retailers for all of us, for example.

Maybe, maybe not. I shop at Target all the times. The amount was not out of ordinary for our shopping pattern. yet, because the charge was attempted in CT and Amex had no idea w were in CT, it got denied.

On the other hand, in FL, we shopped at a Walmart, very unusual for us. Now because the WM was next to the hotel and I didn't feel like looking for a Target when I was in an unfamiliar city, I decided to shop at WM. No problem, charge got approved, because AMEX knew we were in FL based on plane tickets and car rental.

There was an article about how much credit card companies know about us, for example VISA and MC can predict when someone gets a divorce about a year earlier before they actually file for divorce.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Black
Date: December 28, 2014 01:53PM
Quote
space-time
Quote
Black
Quote
space-time
they know everything about you and your travel and spending habits.

Example: I live in NJ, went to FL last year. I bought plane tickets with Amex, made car reservation with Amex. They knew I was traveling and approved all charges

I went by car to CT during Thanksgiving weekend. I filled up with gas in NJ before I left, and used my car. Amex had no idea I was traveling. I went to a Target in NJ and card was declined. Paid with cash. a minute later I got an email on my phone, I had two options, I chose to recognize the charge and then card worked at gas station an even same Target store later that day when I went back to buy something else.

in your case, a large amount in Pakistan when you had no plans to travel triggered the alert. if you had plane tickets booked with the same card, I think they would have approved it.

I think you're a little off here. Charges in disparate geographical locations in a short time may be set up to be a special trigger, but there are clearly factors that are weighted much stronger-- number of charges in a specific time period, number of charges of a certain type relative to your usual pattern, and specific retailer to name a few of the biggies. Target is absolutely going to trigger a hold faster than most other retailers for all of us, for example.

Maybe, maybe not. I shop at Target all the times. The amount was not out of ordinary for our shopping pattern. yet, because the charge was attempted in CT and Amex had no idea w were in CT, it got denied.

On the other hand, in FL, we shopped at a Walmart, very unusual for us. Now because the WM was next to the hotel and I didn't feel like looking for a Target when I was in an unfamiliar city, I decided to shop at WM. No problem, charge got approved, because AMEX knew we were in FL based on plane tickets and car rental.

There was an article about how much credit card companies know about us, for example VISA and MC can predict when someone gets a divorce about a year earlier before they actually file for divorce.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe your credit card company makes a note of where you are going to be at a given time based on your travel ticket purchases. There is an algorythm that weights a number of factors as I've already described. It is much easier to trigger a hold at Target than other retailers since the snafu of late November early December 2013.
If there's anyone posting here who works within the fraud dept of a credit card co I'd be happy to be corrected.




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: testcase
Date: December 28, 2014 02:19PM
The amount, $2.32 struck me as very unusual. Hotel "holds" I've seen were usually for $1.00. $2.32; what would cost $2.32? $1.98, $1.99, $2.00 even with tax, is not likely to result in a charge of $2.32.

As for Travel Alerts; I've called in advance to Bank of America and Novus (Discover) advising them that I'd be on the road and, giving dates and places. Both have "lost" said Travel Alert at least once (charge declined; when I call in, rep says there is no Travel Alert shown on my account). Both cards have been hacked over the years; neither provider held me accountable for fraudulent charges.


Decades ago in NYC, Manufacturers Hanover Trust Bank had a special ink pad. When I went to a Manny Hanny branch for a Visa cash advance, the teller used the special pad and "inked' the paper receipt. I would touch the blue dot with a thumb or forefinger and then, touch the yellow dot. My fingerprint was left. Very simple system and, I expect a huge deterrent to thieves. With today's touch screens, collecting a fingerprint should be even easier. Between a fingerprint and security cameras, I expect most thieves would avoid stores using these measures. For those stupid enough not to avoid those merchants, it should be easier to track and finally apprehend these felons.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: jdc
Date: December 28, 2014 03:45PM
Quote
Black
Quote
jdc
How did you determine the email you revived was actually real and not a phishing email to start with?

I wondered if this might be a phishing attempt, so rather than clicking I called Chase's customer-service number. I got a robot which asked me if one or more of those charges were invalid, and I said yes.

Not really what I meant.

I probably just would have deleted the email. I probably get a half dozen a day from various banks -- I just delete. BSo what was different about this one that prompted a call?



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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: December 28, 2014 03:51PM
Quote
Black
Quote
jdc
How did you determine the email you revived was actually real and not a phishing email to start with?

I wondered if this might be a phishing attempt, so rather than clicking I called Chase's customer-service number. I got a robot which asked me if one or more of those charges were invalid, and I said yes.

The email also said Chase would never ask for your password or card number, but I assume a competent phisher would include that and trick you into giving away information anyway.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: December 28, 2014 03:58PM
Quote
jdc

I probably just would have deleted the email. I probably get a half dozen a day from various banks -- I just delete. BSo what was different about this one that prompted a call?

I don't normally get anything from Chase (our main credit card vendor) except notices of statements available and acknowledgements of payments made. So a fraud alert got my attention.

The account I gave Chase is a Yahoo one, and Yahoo is pretty good at weeding spam (like CC offers).

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Black
Date: December 28, 2014 04:24PM
Quote
jdc
Quote
Black
Quote
jdc
How did you determine the email you revived was actually real and not a phishing email to start with?

I wondered if this might be a phishing attempt, so rather than clicking I called Chase's customer-service number. I got a robot which asked me if one or more of those charges were invalid, and I said yes.

Not really what I meant.

I probably just would have deleted the email. I probably get a half dozen a day from various banks -- I just delete. BSo what was different about this one that prompted a call?

And they are all from banks you actually do business with? And they all contain the last 4 digits of your credit card?




New forum user map 8/2015: [www.zeemaps.com]
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: December 29, 2014 09:52AM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
DeusxMac
From where did you get the Chase customer-service number you called?

I called the number on my statement, not the number on the email.

Assuming your card has not been physically stolen, the number is also on the back of the card. They also should provide a number to call from outside the U.S.
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Re: Fraud Attempt!
Posted by: SteveO
Date: December 29, 2014 11:47AM
Friend of mine is a mathmagician/jeanyus and works on stuff like this for a major bank card brand. They slice and dice your data a thousand different ways. It's on them (or the issuing bank anyway) if they don't detect fraud, so they've got a vested interest in doing so. I'd be ticked at them if they DIDN'T put an immediate stop to it.

Amex dropped the ball with my card last year, there were about 22 charges in Miami, and even a bunch in Costa Rica or Guatemala or something. They went through before they were caught.
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