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SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: MitchJi
Date: January 30, 2015 05:52PM
Hi,

Two applications for which long term drive reliability is either very important to me are boot drives (this can be a PITA to deal with) and crucial (obviously!) video archiving?


I just had a 120GB Mercury Electra 3G SSD, used as a boot drive, die at about 16 months:
120GB Mercury Electra 3G SSD Died at 16 months

Quote
OWC tech support
The drive might have some bad firmware or it might even just be failing
Are SSD drives more reliable than HDD drives in use?

I have heard about people who have archived video on HDD drives, and 5-10 years later, when they try to use the drives one or more drives is dead (mechanical problems). Presumably SSD's would not be subject to that type of failure but is that a valid assumption?



Best Wishes,

Mitch




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 05:54PM by MitchJi.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: January 30, 2015 05:58PM
According to some recent comments about archiving at Macintouch, SSDs are not well suited for long-term archiving.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: space-time
Date: January 30, 2015 06:05PM
for video archiving I would rather buy a bunch of hard drive, which should be cheaper than a SSD. even with SSD you still want 2 copies, with hard drive you can have 3-4 copies and still have some cash left over. Also you can spread these 3 hard drive at different locations rather than keep everything in one single location (think natural disaster, theft, etc).
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: January 30, 2015 06:09PM
Use multiple HDs for archiving and spin them up every few months just for shiggles.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: January 30, 2015 07:19PM
I think we are still about 5 years from SSDs being cheap enough to waste on video archiving.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: jdc
Date: January 30, 2015 08:42PM
All drives fail. Not a matter of if, but when.

Not knowing your setup, not sure why you would use SSDs for archiving. Cost per GB is no where near HDD.



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: sekker
Date: January 30, 2015 09:32PM
I've had far too many flash drives fail sitting on a shelf - no way I'm going to recommend SSDs for data archiving.

I think there are three options for archiving:

1) Tape drives. Known to work, boring. But might be ideal depending on your needs.
2) Dual-RAID hard drives so you have built-in redundancy. I use this for dynamic datasets.
3) M-Discs. Optical disks that claim to last for a millennium
[www.zdnet.com]

We have not converted to M-Discs yet, but we will sometime this year, for long-term archives. We have monthly standard DVD-R discs for a bunch of our datasets; but they are not likely to last more than a few years in our experience.

EDIT: Forgot to add. We are now 100% SSDs for our boot drives, from a stable of over 30 machines. We have had one SSD failure in the last 2 years, 3 the year before (with fewer and less used SSDs). I think the newer SSDs are far more reliable than even a few years ago.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2015 09:34PM by sekker.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: January 30, 2015 11:35PM
The Cloud.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: sekker
Date: January 31, 2015 12:12AM
Quote
Speedy
The Cloud.

For proprietary data? I'm not yet ready to do that.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: January 31, 2015 12:30AM
Quote
sekker
I've had far too many flash drives fail sitting on a shelf - no way I'm going to recommend SSDs for data archiving.

1. SSDs are not much like USB flash drives. Very different kinds of components of much higher quality and both specialized hardware and firmware designed to prolong their lives.

2. Drives die. Whether hard drives or SSDs. In my experience, SSDs seem to die at about the same rate as hard drives and maybe a nudge less often.

3. They haven't been used in the consumer space long enough and the tech in SSDs is evolving so rapidly (take a look at the last 2 generations of Samsung SSDs for example) that the performance/lifespan of last year's SSDs may not be useful to judge this year's SSDs.

As a guesstimate, figure that a SSD will have a useful nd productive life with frequent use and not much abuse for maybe 2-5 years, same as a hard drive. Maybe much longer than that with moderate or light use. And just as with hard drives, have a couple of backups because your drive might be the outlier that fails closer to the 2 year mark than the 5 year mark.

...

As for archiving, at the moment the emerging standard for businesses seems to be Blu-ray.



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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: January 31, 2015 07:56AM
You are presumably talking about SSDs in regular use. Where they are seen as likely to be unreliable is in an archiving scenario, where they just sit unused for long periods. This according to the comments at Macintouch.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: MitchJi
Date: January 31, 2015 05:59PM
Hi,

Quote
jdc
Not knowing your setup, not sure why you would use SSDs for archiving. Cost per GB is no where near HDD.
If you feel that the material that you are archiving is priceless the reliability is more important than the price of the media. But the replies on this thread have convinced me that SSDs are not the answer.
Quote
sekker
I've had far too many flash drives fail sitting on a shelf - no way I'm going to recommend SSDs for data archiving.

I think there are three options for archiving:

3) M-Discs. Optical disks that claim to last for a millennium
[www.zdnet.com]

We have not converted to M-Discs yet, but we will sometime this year, for long-term archives. We have monthly standard DVD-R discs for a bunch of our datasets; but they are not likely to last more than a few years in our experience.
M-Discs sounds like a good option. Thanks!

Do you know that M-Discs are available in Blu-ray ($69 for 15 discs)?:
mdisc.com-what-is-mdisc
Quote
mdisc.com
Now the M-DISC™ comes in a 25GB Blu-ray! With all of the longevity benefits of our original DVD, the Blu-ray gives you over five times the storage capacity on one disc.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: sekker
Date: January 31, 2015 07:22PM
MitchJi, if you find a good Mac-compatible Blu Ray writer for M-Discs, let me know!
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: Sam3
Date: January 31, 2015 10:12PM
Quote
sekker
MitchJi, if you find a good Mac-compatible Blu Ray writer for M-Discs, let me know!

Here's a list of compatible burners:
[www.mdisc.com]

Many LG, some Pioneer and Panasonic, Samsung.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: sekker
Date: February 01, 2015 12:02AM
Quote
Sam3
Quote
sekker
MitchJi, if you find a good Mac-compatible Blu Ray writer for M-Discs, let me know!

Here's a list of compatible burners:
[www.mdisc.com]

Many LG, some Pioneer and Panasonic, Samsung.

Nice, thanks for the link.
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Re: SSD Drives - Long term reliability as boot drives and for video archiving?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: February 01, 2015 01:47PM
One of the archiving methods used by Alex Lindsay of Pixel Corps is hard drives, tons of them.

He also mentions firing them up every six months to help prevent them freezing up. I think he said something about rotating them out, as well.




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