advertisement
Forums

The Forum is sponsored by 
 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the Tips and Deals forum
Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: May 27, 2015 01:07PM
[www.cnn.com]

"The painter and photographer blew up screenshots of other people's Instagrams, hung them at the Frieze Art Fair in New York and reportedly sold almost all of them for $90,000 each."

ohhh... kay.... Model release ? Intellectual property ? Jeezo....
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: May 27, 2015 01:18PM
If all you're doing is copying somebody else's work, it isn't art.

For example, if you take a photograph of a statue in a park it isn't art. If you take a photograph of the park, and the statue is part of the scene, it might be art. Or if you take a close up photograph of a small section of the statue where a bird pooped on it, it might be art.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: decay
Date: May 27, 2015 01:21PM
I'd love to photograph his prints and sell transformative copies.

[www.washingtonpost.com]

First you should know that Richard Prince has been “re-photographing” since the 1970s. He takes pictures of photos in magazines, advertisements, books or actors’ headshots, then alters them to varying degrees. Often, they look nearly identical to the originals. This has of course, led to legal trouble. In 2008, French photographer Patrick Cariou sued Prince after he re-photographed Cariou’s images of Jamaica’s Rastafarian community. Although Cariou won at first, on appeal, the court ruled that Prince had not committed copyright infringement because his works were “transformative.”

In other words, Prince could make slight adjustments to the photos and call them his own.

If someone wanted to argue that this collection is not “transformative” enough to be legal, they would have to file a lawsuit on their own. Upon seeing this story, a spokesman from Instagram said:

“People in the Instagram community own their photos, period. On the platform, if someone feels that their copyright has been violated, they can report it to us and we will take appropriate action. Off the platform, content owners can enforce their legal rights.”

Basically, if someone copies your Instagram to an account of their own, the company can do something about it. If they copy your work to somewhere outside of the social network, like a fancy New York gallery, you’re on your own.




---




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2015 01:22PM by decay.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: thermarest
Date: May 27, 2015 01:23PM
I was a bit disappointed to learn that the reasoning was that his modifications were "transformative." When I read the headlines I thought maybe this was allowed per Instagram's ToS. That would simply be a warning to all that if you want to retain your rights then don't put your work in Instagram.

The transformative argument is pretty thin in his case, imho.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: decay
Date: May 27, 2015 01:25PM
Thin, yes. But it has held up in court.

Many other artists have done the same thing. Always controversy in the art world.



---
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: May 27, 2015 01:26PM
"Transformative"... Taking someone else's work freely given and transforming it by making money off it.

There you go !
1-
2-
3- PROFIT !
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: hal
Date: May 27, 2015 01:35PM
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: August West
Date: May 27, 2015 02:11PM




Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: May 27, 2015 02:15PM
I'd like to peek inside his head and find out what he gets out of this.

Is it just for the money?

Does he believe he's doing something creative?

If someone did the same thing to one of his "pieces" would he notice?




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: decay
Date: May 27, 2015 03:11PM
Maybe he likes to push people's buttons, provoke and profit.



---
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: May 27, 2015 03:14PM
Art is often taking the ordinary and seeing it differently. He took what we all see and saw it differently.
We have all seen Instagrams and thought nothing beyond the literal of what they were. Here, the artist took those same instagrams we dismissed, packaged them differently and caused a reaction in viewers.

Some loved them enough to spend a great deal of money. Others just looked and found them interesting, possibly fascinating. Yet others are having a negative reaction and trying to dismiss it. The fact that we are discussing the validity of this work on MRF is itself a reaction to what he did.

That reaction is what defines art.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: May 27, 2015 03:24PM
He's no Thomas Kinkade.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: May 27, 2015 03:53PM
Quote
freeradical
He's no Thomas Kinkade.

Who'd win in a fight, Thomas Kinkade or God?
Thomas Kinkade?
Wrong!
God?
Wrong! Trick question. Thomas Kinkade *IS* God.




__________________________________
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: (vikm)
Date: May 27, 2015 03:54PM
I'm waiting to hear about the buyers being shills as in other cases to create additional media hype/frenzy/promotion.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: richorlin
Date: May 27, 2015 04:29PM
As an artist myself, I think what he's doing is obscene and in no way should be considered art.
However, if we want to get technical and talk about the legality of what he's doing, check Instagram's privacy policy:
"By using our Service you understand and agree that we are providing a platform for you to post content, including photos, comments and other materials ("User Content"), to the Service and to share User Content publicly. This means that other Users may search for, see, use, or share any of your User Content that you make publicly available through the Service, consistent with the terms and conditions of this Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use"

If he actually got paid $90,000 for each piece, then kudos to him, but he's still an arsehole and a fraud as an "artist".



richorlin

[DrawingMyLife.com]

[www.dudeism.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: billb
Date: May 27, 2015 04:30PM
"Prince, who has not compensated any of the original photographers, has been retweeting some of the criticism and offered up some of his own thoughts."

For free ?



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: Yoyodyne ArtWorks
Date: May 27, 2015 04:44PM
Quote
Ombligo
Art is often taking the ordinary and seeing it differently. He took what we all see and saw it differently.
We have all seen Instagrams and thought nothing beyond the literal of what they were. Here, the artist took those same instagrams we dismissed, packaged them differently and caused a reaction in viewers.

Some loved them enough to spend a great deal of money. Others just looked and found them interesting, possibly fascinating. Yet others are having a negative reaction and trying to dismiss it. The fact that we are discussing the validity of this work on MRF is itself a reaction to what he did.

That reaction is what defines art.

If I come to your house and take a dump on your living room floor, that will certainly provoke a reaction.

Does that make it art?



Once we place nonhuman animals outside our sphere of moral consideration
and treat them as things we use to satisfy our own desires,
the outcome is predictable.

- Peter Singer
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: May 27, 2015 04:51PM
Quote
Ombligo
He took what we all see and saw it differently. We have all seen Instagrams and thought nothing beyond the literal of what they were. Here, the artist took those same instagrams we dismissed, packaged them differently and caused a reaction in viewers.

He literally took someone else's photo—without even editing it—put a couple lines of text underneath it, and hung it on the wall. It's purely derivative work with zero transformation. The copyright holders and/or models should rightly receive every cent of the profit.



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: decay
Date: May 27, 2015 05:49PM
“Art is anything you can get away with.”

- Marshall McLuhan, Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man



---
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: May 27, 2015 06:40PM
seems like stealing in my opinion. I am also floored that people are paying upwards of $90,000 for this. I wouldn't trade the grit on the bottom of my shoe for something I could find on the web and print out.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: blooz
Date: May 27, 2015 09:21PM
Two things to consider:
One— Art progressed fairly slowly for many many centuries. Then suddenly the pre impressionists, impressionists and post impressionists all came along in short order, and within less than a generation there were cubists, dadaists surrealists and abstract impressionists all within the years from approx. 1870 to 1960.
Two—People started thinking OMG what is next and how do we get there? Artists started thinking they had to do something completely different from the last short generation, gallery owners (AKA marketers) wanted to be able to reach people with the "latest great thing" that will be worth lotsa money in a few years, and buyers wanted the latest new thing, either for bragging rights—everyone wants to be able to say that s(he) bought it before anyone else—or for an investment.
So ego, money and a twisted idea that art has to change and be different every twenty or thirty (or less) years pretty much leads us to the desperate efforts of people like Prince to do something, any fscking thing, to distinguish him or herself from any one else. And controversy breeds recognition which can lead to profit.



And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once.
—Friedrich Nietzsche
Western Massachusetts
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: blooz
Date: May 27, 2015 10:01PM
Quote
RAMd®d
I'd like to peek inside his head and find out what he gets out of this.

Is it just for the money?

Does he believe he's doing something creative?

If someone did the same thing to one of his "pieces" would he notice?

Suicide Girls are taking him on:
[news.artnet.com]



And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once.
—Friedrich Nietzsche
Western Massachusetts
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: May 28, 2015 05:02AM
Quote
Yoyodyne ArtWorks
If I come to your house and take a dump on your living room floor, that will certainly provoke a reaction.

Does that make it art?

Technically it would be performance art



Quote
Marc Anthony
.... The copyright holders and/or models should rightly receive every cent of the profit.

Fully agree, but that is not the point. Who profits does not figure into the definition of art.

I am not defending what he did as it was morally and ethically wrong, however it did meet the criteria of art.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: May 28, 2015 01:48PM
Quote
blooz
Suicide Girls are taking him on:
[news.artnet.com]

Quote

During a Reddit AMA, Mooney also noted that SuicideGirls have “the original hires images to work from, whereas he only had the lo-res Instagram images. I bet ours look better.”
[pdnpulse.pdnonline.com]



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 28, 2015 03:42PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
seems like stealing in my opinion. I am also floored that people are paying upwards of $90,000 for this. I wouldn't trade the grit on the bottom of my shoe for something I could find on the web and print out.

I'll give you $90 for that grit!



In tha 360. MRF User Map
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Photogs- what do you think about Richard Prince's latest stunt ?
Posted by: decay
Date: May 29, 2015 12:24PM
remember Mark Kostabi?

[www.artinamericamagazine.com]

“Paintings are doorways into collectors’ homes” was one of his catch phrases, and he neatly declared that “modern art is a con, and I’m the world’s greatest con artist.”



---
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 327
Record Number of Users: 52 on November 20, 2014
Record Number of Guests: 2330 on October 25, 2018