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What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 27, 2015 02:01PM
?
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: jdc
Date: July 27, 2015 02:05PM
SF



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 27, 2015 02:07PM
Washington (DC), Philadelphia and LA usually take top honors along with Boston depending on how you are gauging "worst city to drive in" including/excluding infrastructure or just driver's habits / accidents.

Houston and Socal aren't exactly fun places to get stuck in commuting traffic, but Wa,DC and Philly can be pretty bad.



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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Billybob
Date: July 27, 2015 02:09PM
SF if you have a manual transmission.

Manhattan is pretty high on my list as well.

Driving on I405 in the Los Angeles area between 6a.m. and 7p.m. has my vote for the worst urban freeway.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Spiff
Date: July 27, 2015 02:28PM
New Jersey really sucks for driving
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: chopper
Date: July 27, 2015 02:33PM
Minneapolis this month where everything is under construction.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 27, 2015 02:39PM
It's New York City. But then anyone with any sense wouldn't drive there at all.

For me it:
1. New York City (When you're waiting to turn left, the people behind you just go left around you).
2. Atlanta, GA
3. It's probably Los Angeles but I'm so used to it, it's easy to me.
4. It's probably Boston, but I've only driving those slender streets a few times.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: DavidS
Date: July 27, 2015 03:00PM
Atlanta usually pops up on these lists. We always have construction projects going on and rush hour can start at any time. If it is raining or (God-forbid) snowing, don't expect to get anywhere quickly.

However, growing up and living most of my life here, I don't think it's too bad. It's all your perspective, I guess.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: davester
Date: July 27, 2015 03:04PM
Quote
jdc
SF

Not even close. LA is ten times worse. Houston is pretty bad too. New York City is pretty scary...huge wide streets with only a hint of lane markings and a zillion taxis barreling past you all the time...what's not to like.

SF is a pretty easy place to drive in actually, with the exception of trying to get on the Bay Bridge at commute hour or getting ensnared in critical mass.



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2015 03:08PM by davester.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 27, 2015 03:12PM
Quote
davester
Quote
jdc
SF

Not even close. LA is ten times worse. Houston is pretty bad too. New York City is pretty scary...huge wide streets with only a hint of lane markings and a zillion taxis barreling past you all the time...what's not to like.

I can testify that riding a bike in Manhattan is way easier than in Atlanta. Atlanta rarely has parked cars to serve as a buffer. They think a bike is a toy and you need to get your toy-riding tail out of the grown up's streets. If you want a challenge ride Ponce DeLeon Street from Midtown Atlanta to Decatur. You'll kiss the tarmac when you get there. Riding in the Bay Area is a joy. I got run over in L.A. once by a Mustang but overall it's a cool place to ride.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 27, 2015 03:14PM
....I would guess....Los Angeles......



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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 27, 2015 03:14PM
NY is nuts, but you're in and out pretty quickly. Comparatively speaking. Then again I've avoided NYC rushhours.

LA ? Freaking endless traffic forever. And FAST ! NASCAR class car clearance (i.e. none) at near NASCAR class speeds. I haven't driven in Socal traffic for a few years, but I spent two months going from Long Beach to Edwards AFB twice a day for a defense project back in the 90's. In a minivan. That was a special piece of hell. The adrenaline energy I released could have overwhelmed Hoover Dam.

Cleveland traffic is really nice, and the drivers really aren't that mean to each other.

Toronto is pretty heavy unless you pay for the toll road. And Toronto drivers are quite rude. I guess they use up all the classic Canadian politeness by the time they get in their cars.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 27, 2015 03:20PM
Need more info. Worst what: manners, drivers, traffic, bad roads, endless construction? With the economy picking up, the freeways around Oakland and S.F. can also be stop and go any time between 6 am and 8 pm. On a couple trips earlier in the year when I was between Salem and Portland, OR., I never in my life encountered so many "turtles" driving the speed limit in the passing lane, that would get outraged when you pass them on the right.



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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 27, 2015 03:21PM
In my limited experience, Manhattan. It once took me + son better than a half hour to cross lower Manhattan from west to east (about 1 mile). We were headed to JFK from PA to catch a flight to France, and in my naivite I thought cutting across (Canal Street, maybe?) would be the fastest way to Brooklyn.

Made the flight, just barely. But that was the worst half-hour (plus) of my life.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: zeppo2
Date: July 27, 2015 03:24PM
I regularly have had commutes through LA, SF, and DC, and honestly think the Beltway around DC, especially where Northern Virginia traffic funnels in, is the worst. The on ramps are so short, and truck drivers are insanely bad back east. At least with LA there's usually another way around things.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: DRR
Date: July 27, 2015 03:26PM
NYC? Seriously? Easily one of the simplest big cities to drive around in. It's 90% on a grid structure so navigation is a piece of cake. Everything alternates one way. Pedestrians there know what they're doing (unless they're tourists). Never had a problem with NYC unless you count parts of downtown, and Queens.

Boston is easily at the top of my list. Everything else pales in comparison. SF is challenging to me because I hate not being able to see cross traffic, which is very difficult when you're at an intersection pointed uphill. Still, SF as a city is laid out well enough that there are relatively few WTF navigation hiccups that don't make immediate sense. Boston is basically a rats nest of WTF intersections.

Houston is bad for construction, LA is bad for traffic. Chicago isn't that easy to get around either unless you know where you're going. Haven't had too much trouble in any other city.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: DRR
Date: July 27, 2015 03:29PM
Oh, actually, I have to give a nod to Detroit. I once took a wrong turn in Detroit about 6 years ago, in an ice storm. Ended up somewhere... not good.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 27, 2015 03:36PM
Ooh... for directions, Pittsburgh always gets a win for me. Streets change names every few miles, and road signs appear to have been taken down in 1941 as a way to confuse the Axis saboteurs, and never put back up. And in the icy winter, the hills are a special experience.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 27, 2015 03:37PM
Baw-stan.



It is what it is.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 27, 2015 03:40PM
Quote
Billybob
Driving on I405 in the Los Angeles area between 6a.m. and 7p.m. has my vote for the worst urban freeway.

My commute for my first job out of college (Costa Mesa to Chatsworth) had me driving nearly the entire length of the 405, with a fair bit of the 118 thrown in for good measure. Ugh.



It is what it is.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 27, 2015 03:47PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
Billybob
Driving on I405 in the Los Angeles area between 6a.m. and 7p.m. has my vote for the worst urban freeway.

My commute for my first job out of college (Costa Mesa to Chatsworth) had me driving nearly the entire length of the 405, with a fair bit of the 118 thrown in for good measure. Ugh.

You earned this son. Vaya con Dios.

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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: DP
Date: July 27, 2015 04:17PM
Quote
DRR
Oh, actually, I have to give a nod to Detroit. I once took a wrong turn in Detroit about 6 years ago, in an ice storm. Ended up somewhere... not good.

Miami hands down. Second place is Detroit. At least, the metro Detroit area. Even tho LA traffic is nuts, I find it manageable compared to Miami and Detroit.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 27, 2015 04:49PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
Billybob
Driving on I405 in the Los Angeles area between 6a.m. and 7p.m. has my vote for the worst urban freeway.

My commute for my first job out of college (Costa Mesa to Chatsworth) had me driving nearly the entire length of the 405, with a fair bit of the 118 thrown in for good measure. Ugh.

You earned this son. Vaya con Dios.


Yay, an award!

I didn't even mention the part about how I started the job three months after the Northridge earthquake and how much worse than normal the traffic was for over a year due to freeway damage.



It is what it is.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 27, 2015 05:03PM
Quote
DRR
NYC? Seriously? Easily one of the simplest big cities to drive around in. It's 90% on a grid structure so navigation is a piece of cake. Everything alternates one way. Pedestrians there know what they're doing (unless they're tourists). Never had a problem with NYC unless you count parts of downtown, and Queens.

Boston is easily at the top of my list. Everything else pales in comparison. SF is challenging to me because I hate not being able to see cross traffic, which is very difficult when you're at an intersection pointed uphill. Still, SF as a city is laid out well enough that there are relatively few WTF navigation hiccups that don't make immediate sense. Boston is basically a rats nest of WTF intersections.

Houston is bad for construction, LA is bad for traffic. Chicago isn't that easy to get around either unless you know where you're going. Haven't had too much trouble in any other city.

I take it you have not spent much time outside of midtown Manhattan if you think NYC is easy to drive through. As a native Bostonian, I *hate* driving in NYC, it is quite easily ten times worse. Not even a fair comparison and I have logged many miles in NYC.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: July 27, 2015 05:33PM
Once the Rt 91 viaduct destruction/reconstruction gets in full swing here in Western Mass, (Springfield), will rival Boston in road rage incubators.

Dave



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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: July 27, 2015 05:46PM
I've done a fair bit driving through and around Atlanta and it can get bad but many times I've zipped right
through or around Atlanta only to get bogged down in Charlotte.

I'd say the craziest/wildest driving has to be done in DC.



Grateful11
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: July 27, 2015 06:11PM
Pittsburgh. Without a doubt.

Imagine that EVERY SINGLE PLACE you want to travel requires that you use a road on one side of a river or the other. Now imagine that there are 3 rivers. Now imagine that those 3 rivers are fed by a multitude of streams requiring more bridges than exist in Venice. Each stream is in a valley. The roads follow the rivers and streams, so to get from Point A to Point B requires that you have to cross 1-3 rivers, 2-6 streams, and traverse 3 ridges/valleys. It's like San Fancisco with the hills, but 3 times worse. People don't give driving directions in distance in Pittsburgh, but rather in travel time.

Having said that, I've heard from enough people that Boston is bad enough to rival Pittsburgh. Sorry for the profanity in the image below, but it's funny.





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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Spock
Date: July 27, 2015 07:12PM
All wrong, it has to be South Orlando round Walt Disney World. Convoys of over stuffed rental mini-vans driven by suicidal tourists from all over the world with no freakin' idea where they are going. Except they want to go there, now, no turn signal, no mirror, across three lanes, now. Missed the exit on the interstate, no problem, brake, stop, ask the kids and grandma in back, check map then reverse against the flow of traffic. Nooooooo ...






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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: August West
Date: July 27, 2015 08:14PM




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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: blooz
Date: July 27, 2015 10:28PM
Quote
ztirffritz
Pittsburgh. Without a doubt.

Imagine that EVERY SINGLE PLACE you want to travel requires that you use a road on one side of a river or the other. Now imagine that there are 3 rivers. Now imagine that those 3 rivers are fed by a multitude of streams requiring more bridges than exist in Venice. Each stream is in a valley. The roads follow the rivers and streams, so to get from Point A to Point B requires that you have to cross 1-3 rivers, 2-6 streams, and traverse 3 ridges/valleys. It's like San Fancisco with the hills, but 3 times worse. People don't give driving directions in distance in Pittsburgh, but rather in travel time.

Having said that, I've heard from enough people that Boston is bad enough to rival Pittsburgh. Sorry for the profanity in the image below, but it's funny.

I was thinking of this too. My kids live in NY and if you know what you're doing driving there is a piece of cake. Don't drive on Canal Street, ever, and don't try to go across town when you are uptown.
Actually my vote for worst STATE to drive in is Connecticut. Those people all go to Boston for driving lessons.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2015 10:32PM by blooz.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: stephen
Date: July 28, 2015 12:04AM
Visiting Boston right now (I used to live here) and forgot how crazy these drivers are. Atlanta is busy, not crazy.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 28, 2015 12:24AM
I've been to Boston twice since living there as a kid. I saw no need to rent a car either time -- the T is pretty damn fun to ride.



It is what it is.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 28, 2015 01:10AM
Quote
ztirffritz
Pittsburgh. Without a doubt.

Imagine that EVERY SINGLE PLACE you want to travel requires that you use a road on one side of a river or the other. Now imagine that there are 3 rivers. Now imagine that those 3 rivers are fed by a multitude of streams requiring more bridges than exist in Venice. Each stream is in a valley. The roads follow the rivers and streams, so to get from Point A to Point B requires that you have to cross 1-3 rivers, 2-6 streams, and traverse 3 ridges/valleys. It's like San Fancisco with the hills, but 3 times worse. People don't give driving directions in distance in Pittsburgh, but rather in travel time.

Having said that, I've heard from enough people that Boston is bad enough to rival Pittsburgh. Sorry for the profanity in the image below, but it's funny.


The upper map layout is simple, for simple minds.
The lower one requires an abstract intelligence.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: max
Date: July 28, 2015 06:54AM
Quote
blooz
My kids live in NY and if you know what you're doing driving there is a piece of cake. Don't drive on Canal Street, ever, and don't try to go across town when you are uptown.
Actually my vote for worst STATE to drive in is Connecticut. Those people all go to Boston for driving lessons.
True, I worked through my first two years of school driving a cab in Manhattan and da Bronx, if you know what you are doing it is a piece of cake, avoid approaches to bridges and tunnels, you will do fine....
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: DRR
Date: July 28, 2015 11:13AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
DRR
NYC? Seriously? Easily one of the simplest big cities to drive around in. It's 90% on a grid structure so navigation is a piece of cake. Everything alternates one way. Pedestrians there know what they're doing (unless they're tourists). Never had a problem with NYC unless you count parts of downtown, and Queens.

Boston is easily at the top of my list. Everything else pales in comparison. SF is challenging to me because I hate not being able to see cross traffic, which is very difficult when you're at an intersection pointed uphill. Still, SF as a city is laid out well enough that there are relatively few WTF navigation hiccups that don't make immediate sense. Boston is basically a rats nest of WTF intersections.

Houston is bad for construction, LA is bad for traffic. Chicago isn't that easy to get around either unless you know where you're going. Haven't had too much trouble in any other city.

I take it you have not spent much time outside of midtown Manhattan if you think NYC is easy to drive through. As a native Bostonian, I *hate* driving in NYC, it is quite easily ten times worse. Not even a fair comparison and I have logged many miles in NYC.

Oh no, I've done a fair amount of driving in Manhattan, the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens. Never Staten Island. Rarely Long Island. If I had to rank those from worst to easiest I'd say Bronx/Queens tie, then brooklyn, then manhattan. No idea about Staten Island.

As a native bostonian I just assume you hate everything about NY? As a native new yorker I hate everything about Boston. Except Dunkin Donuts. And Clam Chowder. grinning smiley
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 28, 2015 01:44PM
Quote
billb
Quote
ztirffritz
Pittsburgh. Without a doubt.

Imagine that EVERY SINGLE PLACE you want to travel requires that you use a road on one side of a river or the other. Now imagine that there are 3 rivers. Now imagine that those 3 rivers are fed by a multitude of streams requiring more bridges than exist in Venice. Each stream is in a valley. The roads follow the rivers and streams, so to get from Point A to Point B requires that you have to cross 1-3 rivers, 2-6 streams, and traverse 3 ridges/valleys. It's like San Fancisco with the hills, but 3 times worse. People don't give driving directions in distance in Pittsburgh, but rather in travel time.

Having said that, I've heard from enough people that Boston is bad enough to rival Pittsburgh. Sorry for the profanity in the image below, but it's funny.

d

The upper map layout is simple, for simple minds.
The lower one requires an abstract intelligence.

You mean cows hundreds of years ago had abstract intelligence?
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 28, 2015 05:05PM
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
billb
Quote
ztirffritz
Pittsburgh. Without a doubt.

Imagine that EVERY SINGLE PLACE you want to travel requires that you use a road on one side of a river or the other. Now imagine that there are 3 rivers. Now imagine that those 3 rivers are fed by a multitude of streams requiring more bridges than exist in Venice. Each stream is in a valley. The roads follow the rivers and streams, so to get from Point A to Point B requires that you have to cross 1-3 rivers, 2-6 streams, and traverse 3 ridges/valleys. It's like San Fancisco with the hills, but 3 times worse. People don't give driving directions in distance in Pittsburgh, but rather in travel time.

Having said that, I've heard from enough people that Boston is bad enough to rival Pittsburgh. Sorry for the profanity in the image below, but it's funny.

d

The upper map layout is simple, for simple minds.
The lower one requires an abstract intelligence.

You mean cows hundreds of years ago had abstract intelligence?


It may be time to prick your finger.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 28, 2015 06:12PM
Quote
billb
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
billb
Quote
ztirffritz
Pittsburgh. Without a doubt.

Imagine that EVERY SINGLE PLACE you want to travel requires that you use a road on one side of a river or the other. Now imagine that there are 3 rivers. Now imagine that those 3 rivers are fed by a multitude of streams requiring more bridges than exist in Venice. Each stream is in a valley. The roads follow the rivers and streams, so to get from Point A to Point B requires that you have to cross 1-3 rivers, 2-6 streams, and traverse 3 ridges/valleys. It's like San Fancisco with the hills, but 3 times worse. People don't give driving directions in distance in Pittsburgh, but rather in travel time.

Having said that, I've heard from enough people that Boston is bad enough to rival Pittsburgh. Sorry for the profanity in the image below, but it's funny.

d

The upper map layout is simple, for simple minds.
The lower one requires an abstract intelligence.

You mean cows hundreds of years ago had abstract intelligence?


It may be time to prick your finger.

You mean the rumors about paving the cow trails isn't true? What explains those roads then, the invention of microbreweries?
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 28, 2015 07:20PM
Quote
DRR
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
DRR
NYC? Seriously? Easily one of the simplest big cities to drive around in. It's 90% on a grid structure so navigation is a piece of cake. Everything alternates one way. Pedestrians there know what they're doing (unless they're tourists). Never had a problem with NYC unless you count parts of downtown, and Queens.

Boston is easily at the top of my list. Everything else pales in comparison. SF is challenging to me because I hate not being able to see cross traffic, which is very difficult when you're at an intersection pointed uphill. Still, SF as a city is laid out well enough that there are relatively few WTF navigation hiccups that don't make immediate sense. Boston is basically a rats nest of WTF intersections.

Houston is bad for construction, LA is bad for traffic. Chicago isn't that easy to get around either unless you know where you're going. Haven't had too much trouble in any other city.

I take it you have not spent much time outside of midtown Manhattan if you think NYC is easy to drive through. As a native Bostonian, I *hate* driving in NYC, it is quite easily ten times worse. Not even a fair comparison and I have logged many miles in NYC.

Oh no, I've done a fair amount of driving in Manhattan, the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens. Never Staten Island. Rarely Long Island. If I had to rank those from worst to easiest I'd say Bronx/Queens tie, then brooklyn, then manhattan. No idea about Staten Island.

As a native bostonian I just assume you hate everything about NY? As a native new yorker I hate everything about Boston. Except Dunkin Donuts. And Clam Chowder. grinning smiley

Nah. Boston is close to NYC driving as total mayhem (LIE, CBE, etc are craziest of all places outside of Mexico), but not the same.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Janit
Date: July 28, 2015 10:59PM
Learning to drive in Boston was great preparation for driving in Israel!
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 28, 2015 11:08PM
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
billb
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
billb
Quote
ztirffritz
Pittsburgh. Without a doubt.

Imagine that EVERY SINGLE PLACE you want to travel requires that you use a road on one side of a river or the other. Now imagine that there are 3 rivers. Now imagine that those 3 rivers are fed by a multitude of streams requiring more bridges than exist in Venice. Each stream is in a valley. The roads follow the rivers and streams, so to get from Point A to Point B requires that you have to cross 1-3 rivers, 2-6 streams, and traverse 3 ridges/valleys. It's like San Fancisco with the hills, but 3 times worse. People don't give driving directions in distance in Pittsburgh, but rather in travel time.

Having said that, I've heard from enough people that Boston is bad enough to rival Pittsburgh. Sorry for the profanity in the image below, but it's funny.

d

The upper map layout is simple, for simple minds.
The lower one requires an abstract intelligence.

You mean cows hundreds of years ago had abstract intelligence?


It may be time to prick your finger.

You mean the rumors about paving the cow trails isn't true? What explains those roads then, the invention of microbreweries?

The earliest "roads" were well worn footpaths used long before any European settlers arrived.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Ca Bob
Date: July 29, 2015 12:34AM
I grew up in California back when there weren't so many people or cars, and it was easy. Then I went to college in Boston and the drivers were incompetent and crazy. Not all of them, but enough to amaze and annoy you. I found driving around Rome and other parts of Europe fairly OK compared to Boston. At one time, I was visiting in Seattle (also a while ago) and the drivers were the most polite I had ever seen. It's a lot more crowded up there now, and that seems to add a little tension to the mix.

My experience with eastern drivers is that they don't know much of anything about steep mountain driving or anything at all about desert driving, particularly in the high deserts. I've seen some scary driving by easterners in the upper reaches of Death Valley and the like. Midwesterners are generally OK on their own terrain, but they never face anything higher than a 12 foot rise. On the other hand, I doubt that there are very many southern Californians who could handle snow and ice, particularly at that difficult point around 31 degrees. That condition is about on par with steep switch backs going into the Panamint Valley in 110 degrees back in the days when all brakes were drum brakes. I'll take the ice over that.
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: DRR
Date: July 29, 2015 02:11AM
Boston cow paths are a myth:

[www.celebrateboston.com]
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Re: What's the worst US city to drive in not named Boston?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: July 29, 2015 08:48AM
DRR,

Ease of navigation due to the design of the city _doesn't_ equate ease of driving in the city. Navigation in NYC is easy. It's everything else about driving in NYC that makes it horrendously awful.

Traffic. Road work. Obstacles in the road. Double-parked vehicles. Obnoxious drivers who refuse to yield the right of way (among other things). Pedestrians. You name it. NYC has it. As a result, I do my utmost to avoid driving in Manhattan.

Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and the Bronx suffer from the same problems. It just feels worse in Manhattan. Maybe it's the volume or that when driving in Manhattan I don't feel like I have an escape route that allows me to get around the issues. It also depends on the kind of problems since the extent of each varies from location to location.

Robert
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