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Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: August 08, 2015 01:54PM

Bugatti's 100P was a technological marvel in 1939. The "Reve Bleu" or 'Blue Dream' was to feature two engines driving concentric propellers in opposite directions with hopes for speeds up to 500mph. Air intakes integrated into the plane's V-tail would keep those engines cool. The wings were forward-swept on a rifle shaped fuselage, giving it a unique profile. The plane screamed Future and would be at home in a science fiction magazine written 20 years later. Alas, the second world war brought any thought of development to a halt. The only prototype languished in a barn until it was turned into a static display at the Oshkosh, Wisconsin headquarters of the Experimental Aircraft Assocition.

Now it is going to take flight. A kickstarter campaign and other backers have built a replica and hope to get it airborne in just a few weeks. You can see video of it undergoing engine tests as it taxi's.





“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2015 02:01PM by Ombligo.
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: neophyte
Date: August 08, 2015 02:07PM
So the engines are behind the pilot with offset driveshafts?
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: vision63
Date: August 08, 2015 02:17PM
I'm halfway expecting some giant kid to pick it up and make a zoom sound. It's beautiful.
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 08, 2015 02:32PM
I saw the pic before the text and thought it looked like something out of an early Sci-Fi movie involving Axis powers.

Then it made me think of Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. And then a V-2. And finally a Beech.

Very interesting plane.




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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: August 08, 2015 03:20PM
Looks beautiful! I would love to see more pics or CAD images of the construction. The way they joined the wings to the fuselage seems like a weak point for negative G's (note: I have no experience building anything that flies, only model planes). The motorcycle engines sound pretty good, wonder what the 50C would have sounded like. In a quick search I found a videos with a 50B engine (more of a deep rumble), but not the C.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: August 08, 2015 03:50PM
Some cutaways...






]



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 08, 2015 04:02PM
a rifle shaped fuselage

What is that, exactly? Is it to do with the inverted tail?




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: GeneL
Date: August 08, 2015 04:09PM
It's difficult to believe that this beautiful modern design comes from 1939!

Stunning!

I will certainly follow the progress. Thanks for posting this, Ombligo.



gl @ Dana Point, CA
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: August 08, 2015 07:04PM
The second propeller right behind the first would seem to struggle mightily biting into turbulence generated by the first one. I wonder why this would work better than a pusher in back?
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: August 08, 2015 07:14PM
Nice! thumbs up

It looks waaaay before it's time.



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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 08, 2015 07:28PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
The second propeller right behind the first would seem to struggle mightily biting into turbulence generated by the first one. I wonder why this would work better than a pusher in back?

Contra-rotating propellers have been used for decades without that being an issue. They started to be used more in WW II as engine power and speeds increased. Smaller props in a contra-rotating setup could better handle the power and conversion to thrust than just continuing to increase the number of blades or diameter.

P.S. The Russian TU-95 "Bear" has used this type of propeller since the '50's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2015 07:42PM by JoeH.
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Octave Doctor
Date: August 08, 2015 07:30PM
I think they were trying to smooth out the handling. Later P-38s had opposed rotation on their engines to minimize torque effects. Nice looking plane, though.
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Re: The science of why stepping on Legos makes you want to die
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: August 08, 2015 08:01PM
Looks like something Rutan and Scaled Composites would design... Very cool!
Would love to see one fly!



Paul F.
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A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

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Eureka, CA
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Racer X
Date: August 09, 2015 12:15AM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Mr Downtown
The second propeller right behind the first would seem to struggle mightily biting into turbulence generated by the first one. I wonder why this would work better than a pusher in back?

Contra-rotating propellers have been used for decades without that being an issue. They started to be used more in WW II as engine power and speeds increased. Smaller props in a contra-rotating setup could better handle the power and conversion to thrust than just continuing to increase the number of blades or diameter.

P.S. The Russian TU-95 "Bear" has used this type of propeller since the '50's.

stacked, counter-rotating props are used in a number of current, or recent marine engines.
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: jdc
Date: August 09, 2015 12:55AM
Prior to that, 1929 Piaggio P7 -- was a hyrdofoil. lots of great float plane out of the schneider cup, including the predecessor to the spitfire

tongue sticking out smileyiaggio_P.7_afloat.jpg" class="bbcode" border="0" />

[en.wikipedia.org]

How about some H1





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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2015 01:05AM by jdc.
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: August 09, 2015 01:12PM
The 1929 Piaggio P7 looks interesting. I wonder what caused all the spray/visibility problem, if it was the hydrofoils or the front propeller.



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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: August 09, 2015 01:17PM
Quote
Octave Doctor
I think they were trying to smooth out the handling. Later P-38s had opposed rotation on their engines to minimize torque effects. Nice looking plane, though.

While contra-rotating props do negate the effect of torque, the idea is to move the maximum amount of air while keeping the blade lenght and tip speeds reasonable. Although the Bugatti uses two engines each driving it's own prop, contra rotating propellers were a response to the massive horsepower generated by piston engines during and after WWII, and then turboprops.

Quote
Racer X
stacked, counter-rotating props are used in a number of current, or recent marine engines.

I know I'm being pedantic here, but you mean contra-rotating props. Counter-rotating would refer to applications like the P-38, where each engine turns in the opposite direction to negate torque effects. That setup didn't get used all that often because it complicates logistics: you need left- and right-hand engines, gearboxes and propellers.



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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: August 09, 2015 01:32PM
Thanks for posting about the Bugatti 100P. It's become almost mythical and a lot of people wondered if it was a viable design or not. Now with the replica project, we'll find out! They've done their homework so I'm sure it'll work fine.

Speaking of Hughes' lovely designs and massive engines driving contra-rotating propellers, how about some XF-11? I think it would have been the H-3, with the Racer being the H-1. The H-2 (D-2) would have been the mysterious predecessor to this, and the H-4 is of course the Hercules flying boat. Yes, this thing was big - about the size of a B-17. And yes, this is the one that Hughes crashed into a house after one of the props had a pitch malfunction. The engines are Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Majors (4360 is the displacement in cubic inches for you motorheads). They are 28 cylinder, four row radial engines of about 3000 hp. Same as the engines on the H-4 Hercules and a number of other postwar designs.









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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: jdc
Date: August 09, 2015 04:26PM
Almost posted the XF11 -- I never really cared for the look -- somehow looks out of proportion. Forgot it had the contra-rotating props -- think those came in a later model?

Id ahve to look it up.



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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Plane-aholics -- now this is gorgeous
Posted by: Uncle Wig
Date: August 09, 2015 06:53PM
jdc, these pix are of the first prototype. The run-up shot and the takeoff shot are from the accident flight. The second prototype had conventional four bladed props and was tested extensively. It flew well and met all the performance goals, but came at a time of shrinking budgets and jets. The Air Force decided to use off-the-shelf B-50s for photo recon instead.

I think it's exceedingly graceful and elegant, although I suppose one could argue that the vertical fins are "too big." But directional stability is a good thing!

Here's a model I did of it a few years ago in 1/72 scale.







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