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How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 21, 2016 06:30PM
With the K'zoo shootings, and now this, MI is having a bad weekend.

"It appears that the accident may be caused by carbon monoxide in the home," said Pickell. The four children, including three boys and one girl, were 2, 4, 7, and 9-years-old.

So sad, and a tragedy that could have been easily avoided.

[www.mlive.com]



"After a time, you may find, that having is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

- Mr. Spock



“There is no greater calling than to serve your fellow men. There is no greater contribution than to help the weak. There is no greater satisfaction than to have done it well.”

- Walter Reuther
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 21, 2016 06:36PM
Very tragic. People have even died from CO when the generator was several feet outside of the home.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: February 22, 2016 07:28AM
I nearly lost a group of employees who were covering Hurricane Katrina to CO2. These college educated youngsters (all between 22-27) were staying in an apartment over a garage outside New Orleans following the storm. They fired up a generator in the garage for power. They placed it in the garage to protect from theft, but left a door and window open for ventilation, mistakenly thinking that was enough.

Luckily an older staffer came by later and discover what was happening. The kids laughed at his warning until he pulled out a fire/co2 alarm from his kit bag. He put a battery in and it started screaming immediately.

If he hadn't come by just to see if they needed anything, we likely would have had six dead staffers in the morning.

These were intelligent, educated folks; they thought they had taken precautions. They didn't know that second floors are often wooden slats that will allow rising or defusing gas through. They had intelligence but lacked he knowledge base to fully appreciate the danger.

They got lucky.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 22, 2016 07:29AM
Quote
Speedy
Very tragic. People have even died from CO when the generator was several feet outside of the home.

How could that happen? Exhaust ducted inside?

/Mr Lynn



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Streaming at [www.WHRB.org]
Be there!

The HAH weblog: [hillbillyatharvard.wordpress.com]

Topical weblog: [walkingcreekworld.wordpress.com]

On the river in Saxonville.
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: rz
Date: February 22, 2016 08:08AM
Someone told me that during the hurricanes in Florida back in 2004, people would go around in the middle of the night with old lawnmowers. They'd find someone who had a generator going, start up the lawnmower, then disconnect and steal the generator and leave the lawnmower. That way, the sudden lack of engine sound wouldn't wake anyone up.
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 22, 2016 08:37AM
Quote
Ombligo
I nearly lost a group of employees who were covering Hurricane Katrina to CO2. . .

CO. CO2 is harmless.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: February 22, 2016 08:54AM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Ombligo
I nearly lost a group of employees who were covering Hurricane Katrina to CO2. . .

CO. CO2 is harmless.

/Mr Lynn

CO2 is not harmless, it just takes a higher concentration to be a problem compared to CO.
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: February 22, 2016 09:17AM
Killer Lake...


Quote

N THE NIGHT OF THE APOCALYPSE, Ephriam Che was in his mud-brick house on a cliff above Nyos, a crater lake in the volcanic highlands of northwest Cameroon. A half-moon lit the water and the hills and valleys beyond. Around 9 p.m., Che, a subsistence farmer with four children, heard a rumbling that sounded like a rockslide. Then a strange white mist rose from the lake. He told his children that it looked as if rain were on the way and went to bed, feeling ill...

He ran on downhill, to the village of Lower Nyos. There, nearly every one of the village's 1,000 residents was dead, including his parents, siblings, uncles and aunts. "I myself, I was crying, crying, crying," he says. It was August 21, 1986—the end of the world, or so Che believed at the time...

The U.S. embassy in Yaoundé called on Haraldur Sigurdsson, a volcanologist from the University of Rhode Island, to travel to Cameroon to investigate. Venturing out to the lake several months after the incident, Sigurdsson performed an array of analyses and found no signs of a volcanic eruption. He detected no indication of temperature increase in the water, no disturbance of the lake bed, no sulfur compounds. But a strange thing happened when he hauled a water-sample bottle from the lake depths: the lid popped off. The water, as it turned out, was loaded with carbon dioxide.

That curious finding prompted Sigurdsson's recognition that, indeed, the deaths around LakeMonoun appeared to be consistent with carbon dioxide asphyxiation. Carbon dioxide is a colorless, odorless gas heavier than air. It is the normal by-product of human respiration and the burning of fossil fuels—probably the main culprit in global warming. But at high concentrations, CO2 displaces oxygen. Air that is 5 percent carbon dioxide snuffs candles and car engines. A10 percent carbon dioxide level causes people to hyperventilate, grow dizzy and eventually lapse into a coma. At 30 percent, people gasp and drop dead.

[www.smithsonianmag.com]
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 22, 2016 09:41AM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Ombligo
I nearly lost a group of employees who were covering Hurricane Katrina to CO2. . .

CO. CO2 is harmless.

/Mr Lynn

CO2 is not harmless, it just takes a higher concentration to be a problem compared to CO.

Just ask Jim Lovell or Fred Haise.



It is what it is.
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 22, 2016 10:12AM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Ombligo
I nearly lost a group of employees who were covering Hurricane Katrina to CO2. . .

CO. CO2 is harmless.

/Mr Lynn

CO2 is not harmless, it just takes a higher concentration to be a problem compared to CO.

True, but very high concentrations. Current concentration in the atmosphere is c. 400 ppm; greenhouse operators routinely use up to 1,000 ppm to encourage plant growth; concentrations of c. 8,000-10,000 ppm are allowed in submarines.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: February 22, 2016 12:19PM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Ombligo
I nearly lost a group of employees who were covering Hurricane Katrina to CO2. . .

CO. CO2 is harmless.

/Mr Lynn

CO2 is not harmless, it just takes a higher concentration to be a problem compared to CO.

True, but very high concentrations. Current concentration in the atmosphere is c. 400 ppm; greenhouse operators routinely use up to 1,000 ppm to encourage plant growth; concentrations of c. 8,000-10,000 ppm are allowed in submarines.

/Mr Lynn

Wow 10,000 ppm or 1%

I've choked on CO2 when piping it into a small space which I was working inside of and that wasn't any fun, I suppose it could have gotten up to 10% or higher in there. However CO2 is easily dispersed from the body as it is continually doing just that— you just need to get some O2 in place of it quickly which wasn't a problem in my one case. CO is a different matter as it semipermanently fixes itself to the O2/CO2 apparatus in the RBCs allowing neither gas to replace it, choking you to death even if you are surrounded by breathable atmosphere. I believe the only fix is to get to a 100% O2 environment ASAP to start the slow reversal process before brain damage kicks in.
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 22, 2016 12:44PM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Speedy
Very tragic. People have even died from CO when the generator was several feet outside of the home.

How could that happen? Exhaust ducted inside?

/Mr Lynn

Almost happened to one of my sisters. She lost her electricity for a few days in a storm and her husband set up their generator outside. He was on a big commercial job installing windows and was gone for several days.

They had replaced their furnace with a high efficiency model a few years before, with a simple plastic vent pipe, punched through the basement wall to outside. The generator was several feet away, but the fumes somehow were getting sucked through the vent pipe, into the basement.

My sister started experiencing severe headaches for the next few days until someone finally figured out what had happened.

Scary stuff, for sure!



"After a time, you may find, that having is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

- Mr. Spock



“There is no greater calling than to serve your fellow men. There is no greater contribution than to help the weak. There is no greater satisfaction than to have done it well.”

- Walter Reuther
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Re: How Could You NOT Know Running A Generator INSIDE Your Home Is Dangerous?
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: February 22, 2016 03:06PM
yeah, saw a guy on one of the home improvement forums arguing that it would be fine to leave the generator in the ground-floor garage (living space above) as long as the garage door was left open.

his primary reason being the circuit panel (& generator inlet) was in the garage.

others on the thread pointed out longer generator cords are cheap compared to human lives - hope he took that advice.

safe generator setbacks can be significant - here I can't install a permanent generator - all possible locations are too close to doors or windows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2016 03:09PM by Bill in NC.
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