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April 19, 1995
Posted by: DP
Date: April 19, 2017 05:30PM
OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING

On April 19, 1995, a truck-bomb explosion outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, left 168 people dead and hundreds more injured. The blast was set off by anti-government militant Timothy McVeigh, who in 2001 was executed for his crimes. His co-conspirator Terry Nichols received life in prison. Until September 11, 2001, the Oklahoma City bombing was the worst terrorist attack to take place on U.S. soil.

[www.history.com]



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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: lost in space
Date: April 19, 2017 05:35PM
We were living in Japan at the time, getting re-oriented after the big earthquake in January. I was surprised how much attention the bombing got there.



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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: Racer X
Date: April 19, 2017 05:59PM
I was finishing up my Photo degree, and we were all sitting around watching a TV in the prof's office while our stuff dried.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: fmgtech
Date: April 19, 2017 06:21PM
I was about 2 miles from the blast. It shook buildings 2 miles away.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: Buzz
Date: April 19, 2017 08:02PM
One of Mrs. Buzz's cousins, who was in law enforcement there, was on TV several times in the immediate aftermath. He retired from law enforcement shortly thereafter, even though he was only in his late forties... it really got to him.
==
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: April 19, 2017 08:11PM
A day that will live in infamy.



It is what it is.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: April 19, 2017 08:14PM
Required viewing


[www.pbs.org]
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: jdc
Date: April 19, 2017 08:31PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Required viewing
[www.pbs.org]

members only...

I dont remember where I was.



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: Speedy
Date: April 19, 2017 09:29PM
I was home watching the immediate aftermath on the tube. I was amazed at how much damage to life and property a terrorist could do with a basic rental truck partially loaded with fuel oil soaked fertilizer.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: max
Date: April 19, 2017 10:07PM
The cause and effect.....

[www.famous-trials.com]
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: Pam
Date: April 19, 2017 10:20PM
I was at work. Since that was a federal building the NASA center and adjoining air force base went into lockdown. It was especially horrifying for us parents who had our kids in daycare on federal property. Security really changed after that.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: Speedy
Date: April 19, 2017 10:32PM
Quote
max
The cause and effect.....

[www.famous-trials.com]

Hard to say what the cause and effect are for someone with a terrorist mindset. Maybe they are easily influenced by propaganda. Or they have gotten some warped religious or political belief from family or friends. Or revenge like the recent murderer in Cleveland. Some are just crazy.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2017 10:33PM by Speedy.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: max
Date: April 19, 2017 10:52PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
max
The cause and effect.....

[www.famous-trials.com]

Hard to say what the cause and effect are for someone with a terrorist mindset. Maybe they are easily influenced by propaganda. Or they have gotten some warped religious or political belief from family or friends. Or revenge like the recent murderer in Cleveland. Some are just crazy.

Hardly all that.
It is easy to dismiss every revenge resistance to government misdeeds as terrorism.
In fact McVeigh actions, even if viewed as wrong and misguided, were anything but terrorism.
They were focused on the single adversary. His collateral civilian damage, unconnected to government employees, was not any different, if not lesser, than what our military inflicted in our missions in that time period.
The cover up of Waco was the final straw that drove McVeigh to the point of action, that is not an unknown mystery....
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: decay
Date: April 19, 2017 10:58PM
Who authorized McVeigh's terrorist attack?



---
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: April 19, 2017 11:17PM
Are you drawing an equivalent between our military acting against a firing population and an individual with no ground vernment authorization? That's the end of a government of law.

"Even if wrong and misguided..." Are you are intimating that the murder of innocents wasn't wrong and misguided? Why not say "Even though wrong and misguided..."?

What definition of terrorism are you using that excludes this? The focus is on a single adversary? Where does that come from, the 4th Circuit of Homer Simpson? Oh, wait a minute, I see, you're going Godwin's law for the win!
"The art of leadership... consists in consolidating the attention of the people against a single adversary and taking care that nothing will split up that attention."
[www.brainyquote.com]
[www.brainyquote.com]

Quote
max
Quote
Speedy
Quote
max
The cause and effect.....

[www.famous-trials.com]

Hard to say what the cause and effect are for someone with a terrorist mindset. Maybe they are easily influenced by propaganda. Or they have gotten some warped religious or political belief from family or friends. Or revenge like the recent murderer in Cleveland. Some are just crazy.

Hardly all that.
It is easy to dismiss every revenge resistance to government misdeeds as terrorism.
In fact McVeigh actions, even if viewed as wrong and misguided, were anything but terrorism.
They were focused on the single adversary. His collateral civilian damage, unconnected to government employees, was not any different, if not lesser, than what our military inflicted in our missions in that time period.
The cover up of Waco was the final straw that drove McVeigh to the point of action, that is not an unknown mystery....
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: max
Date: April 19, 2017 11:48PM
You are mistaking an objective analysis for an opinion.

Quote
anonymouse1
Are you drawing an equivalent between our military acting against a firing population and an individual with no ground vernment authorization? That's the end of a government of law.
I dont, McVeigh did.
Adding "no ground vernment authorization?" is your statement.
You ideal government subverted the law in the first place when it came to actions in Waco and the resultant massacre. At McVeigh;s trial, both sides, the prosecution and the defense discussed the direct correlation, the cause and effect. Waco being the cause.



Do you understand what is terrorism? ie an intentionally indiscriminate use of violence to create terror and fear...
McVeigh believed that Oklahoma City was the command and control center responsible for all decisions
concerning government massacre in Waco, making it a focus of his actions, hardly an indiscriminate bombing....
[newsok.com]

The only difference between McVeigh and the government is that government officials responsible for murder of close to a hundred Americans were not only not punished, they were promoted...

Quote
anonymouse1
"Even if wrong and misguided..." Are you are intimating that the murder of innocents wasn't wrong and misguided? Why not say "Even though wrong and misguided..."?

What definition of terrorism are you using that excludes this? The focus is on a single adversary? Where does that come from, the 4th Circuit of Homer Simpson? Oh, wait a minute, I see, you're going Godwin's law for the win!
"The art of leadership... consists in consolidating the attention of the people against a single adversary and taking care that nothing will split up that attention."
[www.brainyquote.com]
[www.brainyquote.com]

Quote
max
Quote
Speedy
Quote
max
The cause and effect.....

[www.famous-trials.com]

Hard to say what the cause and effect are for someone with a terrorist mindset. Maybe they are easily influenced by propaganda. Or they have gotten some warped religious or political belief from family or friends. Or revenge like the recent murderer in Cleveland. Some are just crazy.

Hardly all that.
It is easy to dismiss every revenge resistance to government misdeeds as terrorism.
In fact McVeigh actions, even if viewed as wrong and misguided, were anything but terrorism.
They were focused on the single adversary. His collateral civilian damage, unconnected to government employees, was not any different, if not lesser, than what our military inflicted in our missions in that time period.
The cover up of Waco was the final straw that drove McVeigh to the point of action, that is not an unknown mystery....
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: Speedy
Date: April 20, 2017 03:17AM
Quote
max
You are mistaking an objective analysis for an opinion.

The only difference between McVeigh and the government is that government officials responsible for murder of close to a hundred Americans were not only not punished, they were promoted...

Ah, so this is an example of objective analysis, not opinion. I see.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: max
Date: April 20, 2017 05:04AM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
max
You are mistaking an objective analysis for an opinion.

The only difference between McVeigh and the government is that government officials responsible for murder of close to a hundred Americans were not only not punished, they were promoted...

Ah, so this is an example of objective analysis, not opinion. I see.

Which facts do you disagree with, Speedy.
Was there a legal process where these people were charged and judged before they were executed by the jackbooted thugs of our government?
Was any one in charge the massacre ever held responsible for the botched up operation, Speedy?
Did not close to a hundred men, women and children die for nothing?
Did not McVeigh get executed, while the agents in charge got promoted?
Yes, once promotions became publicized the public blowback caused enough uproar that the agents got transferred, but the fact is that somebody in government thought they deserved a promotion for the massacre.
So what so you object to, Speedy, the inconvenience of facts?....
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: Speedy
Date: April 20, 2017 05:51AM
Quote
max
Quote
Speedy
Quote
max
You are mistaking an objective analysis for an opinion.

The only difference between McVeigh and the government is that government officials responsible for murder of close to a hundred Americans were not only not punished, they were promoted...

Ah, so this is an example of objective analysis, not opinion. I see.

Which facts do you disagree with, Speedy.
Was there a legal process where these people were charged and judged before they were executed by the jackbooted thugs of our government?
Was any one in charge the massacre ever held responsible for the botched up operation, Speedy?
Did not close to a hundred men, women and children die for nothing?
Did not McVeigh get executed, while the agents in charge got promoted?
Yes, once promotions became publicized the public blowback caused enough uproar that the agents got transferred, but the fact is that somebody in government thought they deserved a promotion for the massacre.
So what so you object to, Speedy, the inconvenience of facts?....

No, the revisionist history.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: vision63
Date: April 20, 2017 11:58AM
If I shoot some white guy for the sins of slavery, someone could apply a cause & effect historical thread.
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: max
Date: April 20, 2017 08:52PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
max
Quote
Speedy
Quote
max
You are mistaking an objective analysis for an opinion.

The only difference between McVeigh and the government is that government officials responsible for murder of close to a hundred Americans were not only not punished, they were promoted...

Ah, so this is an example of objective analysis, not opinion. I see.

Which facts do you disagree with, Speedy.
Was there a legal process where these people were charged and judged before they were executed by the jackbooted thugs of our government?
Was any one in charge the massacre ever held responsible for the botched up operation, Speedy?
Did not close to a hundred men, women and children die for nothing?
Did not McVeigh get executed, while the agents in charge got promoted?
Yes, once promotions became publicized the public blowback caused enough uproar that the agents got transferred, but the fact is that somebody in government thought they deserved a promotion for the massacre.
So what so you object to, Speedy, the inconvenience of facts?....

No, the revisionist history.
And you have nothing to show how it is so, do you Speedy?
Neither could you disprove any of the facts you objected as being inconvenient to your comfort, Speedy.

Your entire objection boils down to you being uncomfortable with history.
The inconvenient history.....
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Re: April 19, 1995
Posted by: max
Date: April 20, 2017 09:03PM
Quote
vision63
If I shoot some white guy for the sins of slavery, someone could apply a cause & effect historical thread.

Somebody could, vision,
but in this case, it was the government that brought it up,

Quote

Instead, the officials said, they believe the attack was carefully planned and deliberately timed for the second anniversary of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's tear gas assault on the compound of the Branch Davidian sect in Waco on April 19, 1993, and occurred after months of preparation involving tests of explosives and discussion about delivery methods and possible targets.

Mr. McVeigh's motive appears to center on his extreme anger over the deaths of more than 80 people in the fiery assault in Waco, but some investigators are uncertain of his role within what they believe is a small group of conspirators. Some investigators doubt that he had the leadership capacity to have written such a complex plot and theorize that another suspect will prove to be the ringleader.
[www.nytimes.com]



as by McVeigh himself.

Quote

'I explain herein why I bombed the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City. I explain this not for publicity, nor seeking to win an argument of right or wrong. I explain so that the record is clear as to my thinking and motivations in bombing a government installation.

"I chose to bomb a federal building because such an action served more purposes than other options. Foremost the bombing was a retaliatory strike; a counter attack for the cumulative raids (and subsequent violence and damage) that federal agents had participated in over the preceding years (including, but not limited to, Waco). From the formation of such units as the FBI's Hostage Rescue and other assault teams amongst federal agencies during the 80s, culminating in the Waco incident, federal actions grew increasingly militaristic and violent, to the point where at Waco, our government - like the Chinese - was deploying tanks against its own citizens.
[www.theguardian.com]


Neither of this is a secret, nor deeply buried.
Why do you find the truth so inconvenient that you feel the need to deny the history, to deny the direct cause and effect.....
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