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Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 05, 2017 04:40AM
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"Family kicked off Delta flight after being told by staff to give up 2-year-old son's seat

A Southern California family claims they were kicked off of an overbooked flight because they refused to give up a seat they purchased for their 2-year-old son.

Brian Schear, a resident of Huntington Beach, uploaded an eight-minute video of the April 23 incident to YouTube on Wednesday, saying he was on a Los Angeles-bound flight departing from Maui with his wife and two small children when he was asked by officials to yield a seat held by his older son.

In the video, Schear is told by airline staff that if he does give up his son's seat he will be kicked off of the flight.

When he and his wife refused and argued with staff, Schear is told that being removed from the plane would count as a federal offense and "you and your wife will be in jail."

Schear explains that he purchased an extra seat for his 18-year-old son but opted to send his eldest son home on an earlier flight so he would have more room to fit his 2-year-old son's car seat so as to not disturb other passengers while he slept."

>>>

IMHO, Delta would win any suit simply because the child is not the one who is supposed to be in the seat but they will lose the P.R. battle.

>>>

"Delta issued the following statement Thursday:

"We're sorry for what this family experienced. Our team has reached out and will be talking with them to better understand what happened and come to a resolution. I can confirm that this was not because the flight was overbooked," Delta Spokeswoman Betsy Talton said."



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: May 05, 2017 05:37AM
Do airlines purposely hire gate and flight attendants that have no ability to think about the PR aspect of customer relations?

Nearly every case of someone being removed from a flight could have been resolved with little or no ill reflection on the airline. All it took was an employee not immediately going nuclear.

In this case, the seat was bought and paid for. If the father could have provided proof (even a matching credit card), then it was his seat to do with as he pleased. The airline could have offered to repurchase it in circumstances similar to overbooking, but it would still be his until an offer was accepted.

A smart airline would immediately be putting all gate and flight personnel through a customer relations course. Employees would be told - you remove someone, or deny service - you better have proof that it was.necessary - proof beyond your word. Hold the entire crew responsible for the actions of any one member. Get ahead of the issue before it becomes an issue.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: jardster
Date: May 05, 2017 05:54AM
Actually, it seems that this dad wanted 2 seats for the price of 1. He bought this seat for his 18 year old child and then put that kid on an earlier flight so the original seat would be open for his 2 year old. That's not the way it works. Once his 18 went on the other flight, the original seat opened up and the airline could and should do what it wants with them. If the dad wanted 4 seats for his 4 person family, he should have purchased 4 seats.

I'm no fan of the airlines, but I think people know that if they raise a ruckus, someone will pull out a phone and record it and then they will get something from the airline.



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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Pam
Date: May 05, 2017 06:11AM
My understanding was that he paid for the seat, and paid for another ticket for his older son to fly home the night before. Even so, the airline will take that seat if the person who's name was attached to it doesn't show up and resell it to someone else. That's what it sounded like to me. Son #1 not here, therefore it's ours (the airline's), not yours.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: space-time
Date: May 05, 2017 07:17AM
That's what it sounded like to me. Son #1 not here, therefore it's ours (the airline's), not yours.

unfortunately this is how it works. You cannot transfer the ticket to someone else.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: May 05, 2017 07:49AM
Quote
Ombligo

In this case, the seat was bought and paid for. If the father could have provided proof (even a matching credit card), then it was his seat to do with as he pleased.

That is incorrect. That might be how you wish it worked. But the terms of the seat purchase clearly state that the seat is for the named person on the ticket. If that person does not board the plane, that seat is forfeited.

I'm still amazed at the amount of people who fly but have absolutely no idea what the rules are or have completely ridiculous expectations about what they are getting.

Blows my mind that this guy thought he could do that and didn't bother asking anyone ahead of time when he bought his son the earlier ticket.



C(-)ris
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 05, 2017 07:57AM
....read this and heard on news.....

......believe the older son flew on earlier flight and father wanted to give the seat to younger son.....at the gate they said it was fine....on the plane is where they had issues........



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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: 3d
Date: May 05, 2017 08:21AM
If I had the means I would like to purchase 2 seats for myself so I would not have to rub elbows and knees with a stranger on a flight. Oooo,, and double snacks/drinks since I have 2 tickets. I guess this is not possible.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 05, 2017 08:25AM
Quote
3d
If I had the means I would like to purchase 2 seats for myself so I would not have to rub elbows and knees with a stranger on a flight. Oooo,, and double snacks/drinks since I have 2 tickets. I guess this is not possible.

Sure it's possible. In fact, depending how broad astern you are, it may be mandatory.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 05, 2017 08:40AM
Hi everyone,

This brings to mind a concern I have about flying. Last summer, my wife, 10 month old daughter and I flew to CA. We purchased three seats. One for me, one for my wife and one for Little M. We know airlines will ask passengers to give up a seat on occasion. If nobody is willing, they'll choose a seat at random. I wonder what the airline would have done if reached the point where they chose someone at random and that person happened to be Little M.

There is no way under any circumstances I'd give up her seat nor would I allow my wife's seat or my seat to be taken. Not a chance. I realize the ticket is a contract and I'd be breaking it. And, I could face other potentially unpleasant repercussions. Nonetheless, my family and I come first. Always. I would hope _someone_ in charge would use a little common sense and say, "It's a family with an infant. Maybe we need to find a different solution."

Unfortunately, in this day and age, common sense seem to be left on the tarmac while idiots make dumb___ decisions and allow a situation to quickly get out of control.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2017 08:41AM by Robert M.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: 3d
Date: May 05, 2017 08:51AM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
3d
If I had the means I would like to purchase 2 seats for myself so I would not have to rub elbows and knees with a stranger on a flight. Oooo,, and double snacks/drinks since I have 2 tickets. I guess this is not possible.

Sure it's possible. In fact, depending how broad astern you are, it may be mandatory.

I guess anything is possible.... but there's also the possibility of me losing the seat I paid for if it's over-booked. That would suck!

So let me get this straight....
Original plan: 4 tickets purchased for husband, wife, 1yo, 2yo, and 18yo. Plan was for husband, wife, 2 yo, and 18yo to get seats in their names. 1yo on lap.

The family probably experienced how cramped it was on the first flight there. So on the return flight home, they decided to go with a Plan B to have the 18yo go home alone on another flight so the remaining family will have more room. 4 seats can now go to husband, wife, 1yo and 2yo.

The 4th seat is under the 18yo name. 18yo is not there. Seat is sold to someone else. Broohaha ensues.

In the end, after discussions with the flight crew, the family relented and decided to abide by the instructions, but the flight crew said it was too late for that, and they would have to get off the plane.

I was just flying a month ago with my 6yo and 3yo. Traveling with kids is so stressful. I can empathize with a parent trying their best to keep the seats they paid for and grappling with the situation. But the name on the ticket must match with the passenger. I get that too. Sucks all around.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 05, 2017 08:56AM
Quote
Robert M
Hi everyone,

This brings to mind a concern I have about flying. Last summer, my wife, 10 month old daughter and I flew to CA. We purchased three seats. One for me, one for my wife and one for Little M. We know airlines will ask passengers to give up a seat on occasion. If nobody is willing, they'll choose a seat at random. I wonder what the airline would have done if reached the point where they chose someone at random and that person happened to be Little M.

There is no way under any circumstances I'd give up her seat nor would I allow my wife's seat or my seat to be taken. Not a chance. I realize the ticket is a contract and I'd be breaking it. And, I could face other potentially unpleasant repercussions. Nonetheless, my family and I come first. Always. I would hope _someone_ in charge would use a little common sense and say, "It's a family with an infant. Maybe we need to find a different solution."

Unfortunately, in this day and age, common sense seem to be left on the tarmac while idiots make dumb___ decisions and allow a situation to quickly get out of control.

Robert

Imagine the press they would get as they drag Little M off the plane all alone...



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: May 05, 2017 09:57AM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
Robert M
Hi everyone,

This brings to mind a concern I have about flying. Last summer, my wife, 10 month old daughter and I flew to CA. We purchased three seats. One for me, one for my wife and one for Little M. We know airlines will ask passengers to give up a seat on occasion. If nobody is willing, they'll choose a seat at random. I wonder what the airline would have done if reached the point where they chose someone at random and that person happened to be Little M.

There is no way under any circumstances I'd give up her seat nor would I allow my wife's seat or my seat to be taken. Not a chance. I realize the ticket is a contract and I'd be breaking it. And, I could face other potentially unpleasant repercussions. Nonetheless, my family and I come first. Always. I would hope _someone_ in charge would use a little common sense and say, "It's a family with an infant. Maybe we need to find a different solution."

Unfortunately, in this day and age, common sense seem to be left on the tarmac while idiots make dumb___ decisions and allow a situation to quickly get out of control.

Robert

Imagine the press they would get as they drag Little M off the plane all alone...

They don't choose a seat at random. There is a large number of factors. I believe part of the criteria, of any airline, is that tickets purchased as a family are not broken up. Minors are not allowed unaccompanied so there is no possibility that they would try and remove just a child. If you are single and flying alone in coach you are the prime target of not getting on the flight.



C(-)ris
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2017 09:58AM by C(-)ris.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: graylocks
Date: May 05, 2017 10:16AM
ok now i get it. when i read the story i missed the part about an 18 year old and such. now i get it. yeah, this family either didn't understand the uniqueness of airline ticketing rules or thought they could social media their way around them.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 05, 2017 10:39AM
C(-)ris,

I've no doubt they have some magic system that handle it. But, I don't know if couples are factored into it. If I remember correctly, in the United situation, the doctor and his wife were on the plane and they wanted just the doctor to get off the plane.

Robert
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: numbered
Date: May 05, 2017 11:04AM
Quote
C(-)ris
They don't choose a seat at random. There is a large number of factors. I believe part of the criteria, of any airline, is that tickets purchased as a family are not broken up. Minors are not allowed unaccompanied so there is no possibility that they would try and remove just a child. If you are single and flying alone in coach you are the prime target of not getting on the flight.

Not exactly. On at least two occasions I have had seats "redistributed" placing my toddlers in different parts of a plane by the oh-so-careful airline. They were not kicked off, just placed many rows away in a single seat when the equipment was changed. And the gate agent told me to deal with it. (My record locator was clearly linked to two small children and the computer could care less.)

Moreover, minors do fly unaccompanied.

We are pretty quick to take the airline side here, no?

I think the things which caused the most upset were:
--the crew's claim that the family could not use their child seat WHEN AIRLINE POLICY AND THE FLIGHT THEY ARRRIVED ON HAD THEM USE THE SEAT. Clearly the crew was freelancing.
--and the "your're gonna go to jail" assertion. As we learned with the United situation, flight crews are arrogant about their ability to use the FBI. If there is an issue of safety, especially in the air, the crew acquires additional authority. On the ground, not so much. Indeed airline policy is that the terminal folks are in charge until the doors are closed.

I suspect the word will go out here (as it did on United) that threatening a federal crime is not policy on the ground. Many legal experts weighed in on the United case and noted that the only thing United could have claimed was a state level trespass case. But that case would have been weak because they LET HIM ON BOARD.

So I would not fly to the defense of the airline and their fine print ticket contract....
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: $tevie
Date: May 05, 2017 11:16AM
Quote
3d
If I had the means I would like to purchase 2 seats for myself so I would not have to rub elbows and knees with a stranger on a flight. Oooo,, and double snacks/drinks since I have 2 tickets. I guess this is not possible.
As long as the tickets are for you and you, there's no problem.

I think it is prudent to have a rule that the person in the seat must be the person whose name is on the ticket. But as stated earlier, the hostility and bad optics are totally not necessary.



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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: space-time
Date: May 05, 2017 11:47AM
Quote
$tevie
Quote
3d
If I had the means I would like to purchase 2 seats for myself so I would not have to rub elbows and knees with a stranger on a flight. Oooo,, and double snacks/drinks since I have 2 tickets. I guess this is not possible.
As long as the tickets are for you and you, there's no problem.

I think it is prudent to have a rule that the person in the seat must be the person whose name is on the ticket. But as stated earlier, the hostility and bad optics are totally not necessary.

So what are you gonna do with 2 seats for yourself if they decide to reassign the seats in different parts of the plane? Are you gonna walk back and forth between seats just to feel like a winner?
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Gareth
Date: May 05, 2017 01:02PM
Quote
Robert M
I've no doubt they have some magic system that handle it. But, I don't know if couples are factored into it. If I remember correctly, in the United situation, the doctor and his wife were on the plane and they wanted just the doctor to get off the plane.

The doctor was flying solo, but there was a couple selected before him, and they both got off willingly.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Robert M
Date: May 05, 2017 01:06PM
Gareth,

Nope. The doctor was traveling with his wife.

Robert
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: May 05, 2017 01:25PM
Quote
Robert M
Gareth,

Nope. The doctor was traveling with his wife.

Robert

I had to look this up as well since it wasn't well known. Apparently he was traveling with his wife, but they boarded separately and sat in separate areas of the plane. I could not determine if their tickets were purchased together or separate, not that it really matters.

Couples and their children are supposed to be grouped together in the algorithm.



C(-)ris
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: May 05, 2017 01:30PM
If the gate agent said it was fine as newt said, I side with the passengers.
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Re: Mothers, don't let your babies switch seats on Delta
Posted by: IronMac
Date: May 05, 2017 06:07PM
Quote
Dennis S
If the gate agent said it was fine as newt said, I side with the passengers.

It depends on what the passengers told the gate agent.
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