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Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: tuqqer
Date: July 17, 2017 09:28AM
From the videos I've seen on it, it does look impressive.

(short 30-second example vid here)



Mac Pro 2013 3.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon E5, 16G RAMSierra 10.12.4 Dual 25" Acer 1440p LCDs11" i5 MacBook Air



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2017 09:28AM by tuqqer.
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: Buck
Date: July 17, 2017 09:42AM
Copying directories only, maybe?
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 17, 2017 09:55AM
That video shows someone copying a file named "10 GB" that listed as being 4K in size, over and over. Something isn't right here.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: GGD
Date: July 17, 2017 09:56AM
Quote
Buck
Copying directories only, maybe?

It shares the blocks that are identical between the source and destination files and tracks changes as the files are modified, so it saves on disk space and gives the illusion of fast copies, but no data is actually copied.

If you copy from one volume to another volume, it should force it to really copy the data.

[developer.apple.com]

Quote

Clones

A clone is a nearly instantaneous copy of a file or directory that occupies no additional space for file data. Clones allow the operating system to make fast, power-efficient file copies on the same volume without occupying additional storage space.

Modifications to the data write the new data elsewhere and continue to share the unmodified blocks. Changes to a file are saved as deltas of the cloned file, reducing storage space required for document revisions and copies.
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 17, 2017 10:28AM
So...if the original file gets corrupted, all the deltas are useless? One reason I copy files is to have a true second copy independent of the first, and not necessarily on another drive.
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: GGD
Date: July 17, 2017 11:03AM
Quote
Acer
So...if the original file gets corrupted, all the deltas are useless? One reason I copy files is to have a true second copy independent of the first, and not necessarily on another drive.

Yes, that seems to be the case, and the cost of this free lunch. If there is an unrecoverable read error on one block of these duplicated clones, then all copies have the same unreadable block.

Another cost is that this file system only makes sense for SSDs, since this approach will really fragment a rotating drive and seek all over the place as blocks are scattered about and not contiguous with this copy on write strategy.
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: July 17, 2017 11:28AM
Is this any different than just plain data de-duplication schemes?
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 17, 2017 11:35AM
the available space on disk is 45 GB. It stays the same. after the file is copied 30 times. The math doesn't add up. This is not a real copy, seems like shortcuts/aliases to me.
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: July 17, 2017 11:38AM
Quote
space-time
the available space on disk is 45 GB. It stays the same. after the file is copied 30 times. The math doesn't add up. This is not a real copy, seems like shortcuts/aliases to me.

Yeah that is basically it. Nothing is being re-written because the bits are the same. Why keep 10 copies of the same book when you can just reference the one and then have more space left for other different books?
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 17, 2017 11:48AM
Quote
rjmacs
That video shows someone copying a file named "10 GB" that listed as being 4K in size, over and over. Something isn't right here.

4K is the block size. The file is 10 GB - look closer.



It is what it is.
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 17, 2017 12:50PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
rjmacs
That video shows someone copying a file named "10 GB" that listed as being 4K in size, over and over. Something isn't right here.

4K is the block size. The file is 10 GB - look closer.

Gotcha. Well, in the era of Time Machine, this seems like a fairly inevitable development, right? I'm not sure I see the downside, though as Acer points out if would be nice to be able to create a full duplicate of a file on the same drive.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 17, 2017 04:10PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
rjmacs
That video shows someone copying a file named "10 GB" that listed as being 4K in size, over and over. Something isn't right here.

4K is the block size. The file is 10 GB - look closer.

Gotcha. Well, in the era of Time Machine, this seems like a fairly inevitable development, right? I'm not sure I see the downside, though as Acer points out if would be nice to be able to create a full duplicate of a file on the same drive.

The 4K block size has been in place since the inception of HFS+.



It is what it is.
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: July 17, 2017 05:33PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
rjmacs
That video shows someone copying a file named "10 GB" that listed as being 4K in size, over and over. Something isn't right here.

4K is the block size. The file is 10 GB - look closer.

Gotcha. Well, in the era of Time Machine, this seems like a fairly inevitable development, right? I'm not sure I see the downside, though as Acer points out if would be nice to be able to create a full duplicate of a file on the same drive.

The 4K block size has been in place since the inception of HFS+.

I didn't mean the block size, blockhead! I meant the file system developments. smiley-laughing001



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Has anyone tried out the super fast filing system of High Sierra?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 17, 2017 08:34PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
rjmacs
That video shows someone copying a file named "10 GB" that listed as being 4K in size, over and over. Something isn't right here.

4K is the block size. The file is 10 GB - look closer.

here is what I see; I clearly see 4 kb on disk in that video, and on my files I see the actual size.

and here is what a large file show up on my OS X (10.9.5)

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