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The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: July 17, 2017 11:21AM
I just read an article about the new Accord, and the first part of the topic is copied from it. What?!?!?? Lower?! Our Camry is so low already the front hits curbs in parking spaces! Honda is even lower already! Car makers simply DO NOT get why we want SUVs and trucks. It's because we can actually get inside the Dagnabbed thing! I'm at the point where I'll never buy another car simply because I can hardly squeeze my slim 6'2" body into them. The "kei", light, cars in Japan that I've driven are great. Plenty of height, leg, and head room. Kudzu didn't get us, so now they're using cramped cars. Wow, what a rant I just did. Continue, low hanging car haters...



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: July 17, 2017 11:26AM
Lower cars get better gas mileage. The lower air dam also aids in fuel economy. Blame the CAFE requirements. There is only so much you can do before you start seriously compromising. I got rid of my 2016 Forester because they made so many concessions to hit the 30mpg goal. The sheet metal was so thin that going through a carwash dryer warped the roof and ANYTHING that so much as bumped up against the metal left a ding. The AC compressor was severely undersized and couldn't cool the car at idle on a 90 degree day with humidity. There was hardly any soundproofing and you heard every noise out side the car. The tires wore out in 30k miles of highway driving that was done in under a year...

But yea, it got 30mpg!!!!!! POS...



C(-)ris
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: July 17, 2017 11:36AM
In the '90s, I borrowed a Honda Civic that scraped the road at the bottom of moderate hills. I rented a Civic hatchback that scraped every speed bump in my apartment complex. I'm not a fan of "hugging the road." It's not practical.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 17, 2017 11:46AM
Quote
C(-)ris
Lower cars get better gas mileage. The lower air dam also aids in fuel economy. Blame the CAFE requirements. There is only so much you can do before you start seriously compromising. I got rid of my 2016 Forester because they made so many concessions to hit the 30mpg goal. The sheet metal was so thin that going through a carwash dryer warped the roof and ANYTHING that so much as bumped up against the metal left a ding. The AC compressor was severely undersized and couldn't cool the car at idle on a 90 degree day with humidity. There was hardly any soundproofing and you heard every noise out side the car. The tires wore out in 30k miles of highway driving that was done in under a year...

But yea, it got 30mpg!!!!!! POS...

You were driving your tail off that year.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: July 17, 2017 12:08PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
C(-)ris
Lower cars get better gas mileage. The lower air dam also aids in fuel economy. Blame the CAFE requirements. There is only so much you can do before you start seriously compromising. I got rid of my 2016 Forester because they made so many concessions to hit the 30mpg goal. The sheet metal was so thin that going through a carwash dryer warped the roof and ANYTHING that so much as bumped up against the metal left a ding. The AC compressor was severely undersized and couldn't cool the car at idle on a 90 degree day with humidity. There was hardly any soundproofing and you heard every noise out side the car. The tires wore out in 30k miles of highway driving that was done in under a year...

But yea, it got 30mpg!!!!!! POS...

You were driving your tail off that year.

That is pretty typical for us. Lots of road trips. I think we put on 5k in the first month of summer travels.



C(-)ris
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: July 17, 2017 12:15PM
Lower is also more stable and thus fun to drive. There's a reason that Ferraris, Lambos, etc. look the way they do. You have a choice: if you want higher, buy a Pilot or CRV instead of an Accord. Or a RAV-4 or Highlander instead of a Camry.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 17, 2017 12:22PM
Gene, agree smiley . It seems like cars are designed for SoCal or Japanese roads... get up north in the US and they will bottom out during pothole season. The good 'ol designed in Detroit vehicles could handle that... well, as long as they were not designed by GM execs who get babied brand new vehicles and never have to deal with maintenance or even buying gasoline.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: July 17, 2017 12:24PM
Being too low is one of the reasons I don't drive my 85 Pontiac Trans Am or 75 Chevy Corvette much any more. You basically have to fall into them, and if a truck or SUV pulls up next to you at an intersection, forget about seeing around them.

My daily driver is a full size pickup truck. I'm up high enough to see everything with enough power to actually pass another vehicle. Gas milage isn't too bad with the 6 cylinder, AND, if I have to haul something, well, I have a truck!



"After a time, you may find, that having is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

- Mr. Spock



“There is no greater calling than to serve your fellow men. There is no greater contribution than to help the weak. There is no greater satisfaction than to have done it well.”

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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: July 17, 2017 12:27PM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Lower is also more stable and thus fun to drive. There's a reason that Ferraris, Lambos, etc. look the way they do. You have a choice: if you want higher, buy a Pilot or CRV instead of an Accord. Or a RAV-4 or Highlander instead of a Camry.

Uh, Lew, dagnabbedit. I understand that.



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 17, 2017 12:27PM
To paraphrase P.J. O'Rourke:
"What would be a road hazard anywhere else, in Queens is probably the road."

On the other hand, listening to the customized low-riding cars with bass blasting going 'crunch' is kinda fun.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: July 17, 2017 12:36PM
Quote
GuyGene
Quote
Lew Zealand
Lower is also more stable and thus fun to drive. There's a reason that Ferraris, Lambos, etc. look the way they do. You have a choice: if you want higher, buy a Pilot or CRV instead of an Accord. Or a RAV-4 or Highlander instead of a Camry.

Uh, Lew, dagnabbedit. I understand that.

Sorry, I'm very literal early in the day and my brain generally turns on by 2-3pm…

edit: aaand spelling works by ~5pm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2017 12:36PM by Lew Zealand.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 17, 2017 12:38PM
i think move vehicles have been getting higher, with some rare exceptions such as the Accord noted in the thread title. Which I understand as far as avoiding curb rash, past that it seems a bit silly.



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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Lizabeth
Date: July 17, 2017 12:47PM
Too bad Chevy stopped making the Geo Tracker...love the height of it. Mom's last car before she gave up driving for good.

It's about a foot shorter than a Ford Escape was and it does look a "little" funny with 18 foot kayaks on top but...it keeps the SO from overpacking for trips smiling smiley

On the Honda Civic, I regularly have the guys at the garage reattached the clips of the front bummer on one of the sides because of the curb scrapping that tends to be done to it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2017 12:49PM by Lizabeth.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: decay
Date: July 17, 2017 12:49PM
PA roads are pretty rough, too.



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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: lost in space
Date: July 17, 2017 12:58PM
I agree with GG. That's what is pushing me towards something small and tall, alike a Kia Soul or Rondo, Mazda 5, etc.

Another down side to lower cars is their vulnerability to big SUVs and pickups. Not just the weight but also height. A few years ago a woman was killed when she was T-boned in her Civic by a 4WD PU. The PU's bumper rode up over the internal side crash beam and killed her on the spot. The truck was going 25.



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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 17, 2017 01:05PM
Quote
Lizabeth
Too bad Chevy stopped making the Geo Tracker...love the height of it. Mom's last car before she gave up driving for good.....
You mean the rebadged Suzuki Samuri ? The one made infamous by Consumer Reports "This car will ALWAYS roll over" video ?
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 17, 2017 01:16PM
What the north has in pothole quantity, Florida makes up for with quality ...

Ocala, FL


Archer, FL


Deltona, FL


Gainesville, FL


Miami Beach, FL


Tampa, FL




“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Robert M
Date: July 17, 2017 01:37PM
cbelt,

Nope. The Geo Tracker was a rebaged Suzuki Sidekick. Different vehicle. Dad had a Sidekick. Loved it! Thing seemed to last forever.

Robert
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Buzz
Date: July 17, 2017 03:02PM
I agree that a large part of the "problem" is the mpg regs. Been driving minivans for over twenty years because the rickety old body can't get in/out of low cars. My rant would be to lobby the politicos to eliminate vehicles sold to us gimpy types from counting towards the overall fleet mpg reqs... that way maybe C(-)ris's Forrester could be built as it should, and even though it then gets "only" 26.4 mpg, it doesn't count against the manufacturer's fleet goals. The real problem is that the car companies have to sell a bunch of little, low, tin boxes to make up for the big, honkin', profitable, low mpg, luxo SUV's. I understand that part of making the overall global fleet more fuel efficient, and I don't think a gimpy dude buying an Escalade should warrant an exemption; but up to a reasonable point, which would definitely include the Forrester, I think the ADA ought to be expanded to allow car makers to make a modicum of vehicles that no longer penalize the overall fleet.
==
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Robert M
Date: July 17, 2017 03:24PM
Buz,

I doubt the issue is trying to sell low little tin boxes to make up for the big honkin' SUVs. It's all about the customer. My parents were comparing compact SUVs. They noticed significant high differences among them. Height in the basic height of the seat in relation to the street. Very significant differences. Some were just too high off the ground. It made getting in and out of the passenger seat difficult. I've no doubt the manufacturers evaluate this kind of stuff when designing the vehicle as a whole and the other models they sell likely don't factor into it.

Robert
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Mr645
Date: July 17, 2017 04:19PM
I hate driving SUVs and trucks. They handle like crap, top heavy, un responsive. Roads are pretty good in South Florida however. Wife and I had driven a Mercedes AMG to Ohio and hit something in the road and killed a tire. Our car had the 19" wheel and tire package, towed to the dealer and the dealer tells me they have never had a car with the 19" tires, they only order cars with the 18" tires. Took a day to get the 19" tire delivered from somewhere.
In Florida you'll see a lot of cars with the 19" wheel/tires package. Lots of cars use Summer only tires.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 17, 2017 04:29PM
I love the current CAFE standards. Too bad they are going away.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Cary
Date: July 17, 2017 04:36PM
Quote
Robert M
Buz,

I doubt the issue is trying to sell low little tin boxes to make up for the big honkin' SUVs. It's all about the customer. My parents were comparing compact SUVs. They noticed significant high differences among them. Height in the basic height of the seat in relation to the street. Very significant differences. Some were just too high off the ground. It made getting in and out of the passenger seat difficult. I've no doubt the manufacturers evaluate this kind of stuff when designing the vehicle as a whole and the other models they sell likely don't factor into it.

Robert

Robert, I have to disagree with you. Buzz is correct. The automakers are trying to meet corporate goals vis-a-vis fuel economy (CAFE), emissions and zero-emissions. These goals are federally mandated and often conflict with one another.

One of the specific methods they employ to hit corporate fuel economy goals (CAFE) is to specifically design small crapboxes that get higher numbers, which offset the lower numbers generated by the big SUVs and trucks.

Secondly, the designs (car, truck, SUV, etc. are all created using the end consumer in mind. Every vehicle has specific design tenets (who will drive it, how big are they, where, how it needs to be equipped, etc.). Whether the manufacturer does a good job or not is the question.

The vehicle that your parents decided is too tall for them may well be perfect height for someone taller. We both live on LI - I'm sure you see (as I do) huge SUVs driven by tiny women.

Cary
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Buzz
Date: July 17, 2017 04:38PM
Robert-
My point was supposed to be that the car makers have to "tailor" their entire line to conform w/ mpg requirements, which as C(-)ris noted, means making some models of lesser quality than they should be to get their car line in line w/ the mpg requirements. This penalizes us gimpy folks that can't try or buy the huge percentage of small, low slung cars that make up a maker's line. When cars like the Forrester are made tinnier than they should be to help the entire line conform w/ the mpg requirements, handicapped buyers are penalized by the limited choices and the concessions forced by the mpg requirements.
==
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Cary
Date: July 17, 2017 04:38PM
Quote
Ombligo
What the north has in pothole quantity, Florida makes up for with quality ...

Gainesville, FL

The Gainesville photo looks like an access hole left open, or cover caved in, not a sinkhole.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2017 04:38PM by Cary.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: July 17, 2017 05:22PM
Lew, hail smiley I understand.

Omb, wow, just wow. We used to live in Florida and I remember a few sinkholes that happened. Your statement had me laughing, but not at the poor people who ran into the sinkholes! I've been about everywhere in the world except Latin America, and other than Africa, USA has the worst roads of any other country I've been to.

Anyway, this company owned Camry will probably be the last sedan we buy. In Japan I always bought diesel 8 passenger vans that you can't get in USA. I've researched vehicle's a LOT, I'm just kind of a car/truck nut, and from what I'm seeing, a 4 door full size truck gets better mpg than a Toyota Highlander. V6 to V6 I'm talking about. Especially the F150.



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: July 17, 2017 05:45PM
I miss the Suzuki Sidekick. My dad had one as a rental one time. We took it 4-wheeling. I was amazed. I expected to be winching it out left and right, but it never got stuck. The wheels were at the extreme corners so it could crawl over all kinds of things and navigate some impressively deep ravines.



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MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: billb
Date: July 17, 2017 05:58PM
Quote
Cary
Quote
Ombligo
What the north has in pothole quantity, Florida makes up for with quality ...

Gainesville, FL

The Gainesville photo looks like an access hole left open, or cover caved in, not a sinkhole.

Those are awful straight lines for a "cave in" . Plus that's fresh asphalt. It's been resurfaced right there quite recently.
Florida does have it's fair share of limestone cave-ins though.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin


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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: AllGold
Date: July 17, 2017 06:10PM
Quote
Rick-o
Being too low is one of the reasons I don't drive my 85 Pontiac Trans Am or 75 Chevy Corvette much any more. You basically have to fall into them, and if a truck or SUV pulls up next to you at an intersection, forget about seeing around them.

My daily driver is a full size pickup truck. I'm up high enough to see everything with enough power to actually pass another vehicle.

Your Trans Am and Corvette don't have enough power to pass? smiley12

Quote
cbelt3


ftw smiley I love that!

I see you uploaded it to MRF. I MUST have it. Where did it come from? smiley-excited001



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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 17, 2017 06:57PM
don't forget the loss in visibility from the squashed-down roof line now required.

I suppose that's one of the reasons that backup cameras are now required for 2018- models.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Robert M
Date: July 17, 2017 09:51PM
Cary,

You actually supported part of what I was saying in that the design of the vehicles is geared to the end consumer. If Buzz wanted to make the point he says he was making, he should have said it that way in the first place. To me, what he said didn't account for what you added to the conversation, which in fact supports my point.

Robert
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 17, 2017 10:02PM
The nose of my 2013 Prius is beat. Too damn low by inches. Next time I buy tires, I will likely go up 2" in diameter to raise the car an inch.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Cary
Date: July 18, 2017 06:46AM
Quote
Robert M
Cary,

You actually supported part of what I was saying in that the design of the vehicles is geared to the end consumer. If Buzz wanted to make the point he says he was making, he eeshould have said it that way in the first place. To me, what he said didn't account for what you added to the conversation, which in fact supports my point.

Robert

I guess I misread/misunderstood your post. Thanks for the clarity.

Cary
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Robert M
Date: July 18, 2017 08:58AM
Hi Cary,

Yups! For what it's worth, the vehicles they were choosing between were the 2012 Toyota Rav4 and a 2012 Subaru Forester. The RAV4 was a bit higher than the Subaru. Mom wanted the Subaru but, in the end, the Rav4 won out over it for a number of reasons. They outweighed the difference in height, which, for them, was significant.

Robert
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: norse
Date: July 18, 2017 11:32AM
Quote
GuyGene
I just read an article about the new Accord, and the first part of the topic is copied from it. What?!?!?? Lower?! Our Camry is so low already the front hits curbs in parking spaces! Honda is even lower already! Car makers simply DO NOT get why we want SUVs and trucks. It's because we can actually get inside the Dagnabbed thing! I'm at the point where I'll never buy another car simply because I can hardly squeeze my slim 6'2" body into them. The "kei", light, cars in Japan that I've driven are great. Plenty of height, leg, and head room. Kudzu didn't get us, so now they're using cramped cars. Wow, what a rant I just did. Continue, low hanging car haters...

From your wording "Dagnabbed thing!", I'm assuming you're more "mature". The low sporty cars are made for the young'ns. smiling smiley
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: July 18, 2017 01:10PM
hehehehehehe smiley-laughing001 old fogey smiley You got that right, norse. Yes, mature, that's what I am!



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
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Re: The new vehicle is longer, lower... Lower car rant.
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 18, 2017 04:03PM
Now, it isn't always the height either. For example, my Sable in the nose just before the front tires is pretty low too. However, it is a cut back slope from the front bumper to the front wheel well. The Prius is low and flat straight back. That cutback allows you to clear most driveways, and many parking spot wheel stops.

My Prius high centers almost every time I drive into my "mother" in law's apartment complex. With just ONE person in the car. If I hit it at an angle, in the oncoming lane as it were. I can clear if the tank is mostly empty. Now, that is messed up Toyota.
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