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Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: July 24, 2017 10:23PM
Over a month ago we started having issues with the family ipad. It continually restarts. [forums.macresource.com] I tried all the tips and everything I could find online. The problem persisted so it's been on the shelf for the last month until we could make it to the Apple Store.

Today my wife finally had some time and took the two littles in tow to the Apple Store. They had a three hour wait. That wouldn't be so bad if they don't let you leave the device with them for you to come back later and pick it up. So now we have to find some other time in the future to try it again. Yes, she probably should have checked the schedule online first, but if they have waits that long they really need a system to help people who can't stand around for that many hours.

With all the android devices we've had, I've never had one I couldn't fix on my own. They either need to make their devices more reliable, easier to fix yourself, solve the long support lines, or all of the above.




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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: hal
Date: July 24, 2017 10:39PM
Quote
M A V I C
Yes, she probably should have checked the schedule online first, but if they have waits that long they really need a system to help people who can't stand around for that many hours.

You gotta be realistic. YES, she should have made an appt. Since she didnt, she is able to walk in and EVENTUALLY see someone. What extra system could apple put in place for people that don't make appts, but don't want to wait a long time along with all the other people that didn't make appts?

And dropping off equipment without an explanation would lead to all kinds of disasters. If you think it through, there is no alterantive: make an appt or walk in and take your chances.
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: July 24, 2017 10:49PM
Quote
hal
Quote
M A V I C
Yes, she probably should have checked the schedule online first, but if they have waits that long they really need a system to help people who can't stand around for that many hours.

You gotta be realistic. YES, she should have made an appt. Since she didnt, she is able to walk in and EVENTUALLY see someone. What extra system could apple put in place for people that don't make appts, but don't want to wait a long time along with all the other people that didn't make appts?

And dropping off equipment without an explanation would lead to all kinds of disasters. If you think it through, there is no alterantive: make an appt or walk in and take your chances.

Apple Stores SUCK at service. Apple drove most of the AASPs out of business with their policies and store openings. The sad fact is that AASPs did a far better job at repairs than Apple stores ever do. I never had to wait 3 hours at an AASP to get a machine triaged. Never had to wait a week for a single part repair to be done. Never had to lug a 27" iMac through a mall. Give me back my locally owned AASP over an Apple Store any day.



C(-)ris
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: saintyohann
Date: July 24, 2017 11:33PM
AASPs couldn't handle what the load has become. When the first Apple Stores opened you could just walk up to the bar and choose whom you wanted to help you and get a free bottle of water. Now there's an appointment list and a stand-by list. Most people with an appointment are seen within 10 minutes of their appointment time, have their issue triaged in 15 minutes and either fixed on the spot or checked in for repairs. Of those machines checked in, 80% of them are ready in 48 hours.
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: 3d
Date: July 25, 2017 04:52AM
Treat this as a learning experience. Before coming to the Apple Store schedule an appointment. I thought this was common knowledge by now.
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: modelamac
Date: July 25, 2017 07:54AM
hal hit the nail on the head.

Apple stores are not set up to handle "walk-ins". They aren't grocery stores or hardware or clothing stores. They are not restaurants. They are retail stores and also "doctor's offices". You make an appointment to see your doctor, so make one to solve your Apple problem. Very simple.

I have had to visit an Apple store 5 times since the first one opened in my area (45 minute drive one-way), perhaps 12 years ago. I made an appointment each time and got there 15 minutes early each time. I waited no more than 20 minutes each time. Only once did I have to leave my Mac and come back in 2 hours to pick it up, and even then I had an option to have it shipped to my home. It is my opinion that Apple Stores are properly set up to handle problems, and do so very well. I have little sympathy for those not making appointments.



Mr. Curmudgeon, on Mav/EC/Sierra/blood thinner & some other "old people pills".
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 25, 2017 07:56AM
....they have become way too crowded, especially in large cities.....



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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: PeterW
Date: July 25, 2017 08:08AM
“Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.” - Yogi Berra-ism
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: July 25, 2017 09:12AM
Quote
hal
What extra system could apple put in place for people that don't make appts, but don't want to wait a long time along with all the other people that didn't make appts?

Like I said, they could make their devices more reliable. Tons of people have this issue. It's a nearly new and barely used iPad. The other is to make their devices easier for a user to fix.

If they're not going to do that, they need more people and/or more locations to handle the load.

Years ago you used to be able to ship your device in for repairs. Or they could just let people drop off devices.

I can't think of any other company that has a three hour wait time for walk in service. Someone else mentioned a doctor, but even they get you in quicker than that. Even the DMV has shorter lines. Surely Apple can do better than the state government.




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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: bik
Date: July 25, 2017 09:31AM
Wow...
I'm usually the guy telling people to work with the system the way it's set up. But in this case...

If Apple cared to "think it through," they could identify the customer concerns, address the shortcomings, and, if necessary, adjust the entire system.

How about if one or more qualified Apple Store employees were capable of talking with a customer, witnessing the issue and documenting it, and then taking the equipment in for service without any attempt at repair. People who make appointments can get same-day consultation and service; people who don't make appointments drop their gear off. Period. There, I thought it through.

As for the notion that "you make appointments for your doctor, you can make appointments for the Apple Store..."

Please.

The last thing we need is to model any other consumer businesses after healthcare.
Want to call you doctor to ask a question? Can't do it.
Want to email with your doctor? Can't do it.
Have to miss an appointment because something urgent came up? They'll charge you for an office visit anyway.

Apple Store employees are not MDs.

Here's a totally random thought that I totally haven't given much thought to...
What if, rather than sitting on their enormous stacks of un-taxed cash, Apple spent a little of their absurdly large hoard on improving customer experience.

That's right. I'm suggesting that Apple could look further than the ends of their noses (or the end of the next fiscal quarter), improve the way they deal with consumers, and the cost would be that they profit at a slightly slower rate.

Now THERE'S a statement I didn't think through.
Clearly no publicly traded company like Apple would ever willingly do anything that could slow the growth for shareholders and executives.
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: decay
Date: July 25, 2017 11:30AM
If you took your car to a busy garage without an appointment, would you expect them to take you within an hour?

Pick any luxury brand, any busy dealer - do they have drive-up service without a wait?



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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: bik
Date: July 25, 2017 11:44AM
Quote
decay
If you took your car to a busy garage without an appointment, would you expect them to take you within an hour?

Pick any luxury brand, any busy dealer - do they have drive-up service without a wait?

If your car was having problems to the point of being useless to you, would a busy garage allow you to drop the car off and leave it with them until they were able to repair it?

Or would they insist that you have the car towed home and towed back to them when you have an appointment?

If it was a luxury-brand new-car dealer, not only would they let you drop it off, they would give you a loaner to ease your pain while you're without your own car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2017 11:45AM by bik.
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: jdc
Date: July 25, 2017 11:45AM
Quote
decay
If you took your car to a busy garage without an appointment, would you expect them to take you within an hour?

How about a flat tire? Drive into Big O on a saturday and be done in 20 minutes? They need to make car tires more reliable or make them easier to put a new one back on the rim? ;)

You never did mention if you called apple. There is a mail in service option.

And you are saying that if an andriod device continuously had the same restart issue, and google said its a common thing, and even after you wiped it, it still had the same issue... you could just "fix" it cause it was running andriod?

Not really trying make this an "apple" thing, but the whole "I should be able to get it fixed in 5 minutes..." doesnt apply. Not just to iPads, but a hundred other things as well.

Ever been to an emergency room in a big city? 3 hours would be short. How about calling the AC guy on July 4th?



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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: chopper
Date: July 25, 2017 02:28PM
Shock.
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: July 25, 2017 02:57PM
Quote
decay
If you took your car to a busy garage without an appointment, would you expect them to take you within an hour?

Pick any luxury brand, any busy dealer - do they have drive-up service without a wait?

They do it all the time. Tow trucks routinely drive up and drop cars off. Most indy shops have a slot for an owner to drop keys in if they drop their car off at night when the shop isn't open.

There's an Audi dealer a couple miles from the Apple Store in question. A few years ago they built a massive garage to be able to handle this sort of thing. Pull up, walk in, hand over your keys and they put it in the garage.






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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: July 25, 2017 03:09PM
Quote
jdc
You never did mention if you called apple. There is a mail in service option.

Might be worth giving that a try. We did not call.

Quote

And you are saying that if an andriod device continuously had the same restart issue, and google said its a common thing, and even after you wiped it, it still had the same issue... you could just "fix" it cause it was running andriod?

It doesn't seem like I can wipe the iPad to the same level as I can an Android device. Messing with my phone, I have created this issue on an android device. Wiping the dalvik cache usually fixes it. Otherwise I could do a full wipe and reinstall the OS. I've done all the reset options I've found on iOS. To my knowledge, there isn't a way to completely wipe it.

Quote

Not really trying make this an "apple" thing, but the whole "I should be able to get it fixed in 5 minutes..." doesnt apply. Not just to iPads, but a hundred other things as well.

Let me be clear - I don't expect it to be fixed that fast. But I do expect that one doesn't have to stand around for hours just waiting for an item to be checked in to be fixed.

Quote

Ever been to an emergency room in a big city? 3 hours would be short. How about calling the AC guy on July 4th?

I went to urgent care in December. Big city. They had a self checkin kiosk so I was checked in within a few minutes. I saw a nurse within about 10 minutes and a doctor after xrays. Their website says you usually see a doctor "in 8 minutes or less". [www.citymd.com]

The damage was bad enough I had to go to a specialist. They got me an appointment that was about an hour later. Maybe a little more, but certainly less than three. This is for a non-life threatening injury.

Another urgent care place says they have "no wait" care [www.zoomcare.com]

I can't speak to AC repair. The last time I had a problem with the AC, I fixed it myself.




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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: July 25, 2017 05:58PM
Quote
saintyohann
AASPs couldn't handle what the load has become. When the first Apple Stores opened you could just walk up to the bar and choose whom you wanted to help you and get a free bottle of water. Now there's an appointment list and a stand-by list. Most people with an appointment are seen within 10 minutes of their appointment time, have their issue triaged in 15 minutes and either fixed on the spot or checked in for repairs. Of those machines checked in, 80% of them are ready in 48 hours.

That is so false it is numerous. AASPs that were shuttered didn't have an issue with handling the load or excessive wait times. It was a systematic effort by Apple to shut them all down.

I've never been seen on time for an appointment. Not once. I've been in dozens of Apple stores. Always wait, wait, wait. Always a different drone, no way to build a relationship, never an understanding. I could walk into an AASP I had done business with before and hand them a defective laptop with a note on top with the problem and my business card and walk out in 5 minutes flat. You can NEVER build that relationship in an Apple store, it is contrary to their structure.



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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: jdc
Date: July 25, 2017 06:23PM
Guess you never been to the ASP here. $50 before they will even say hello. =(

And after the $50 when explained the problem, the on the spot diagnosis was "prob a font, will need to reinstall system" or "sounds like it needs a new motherboard".

Worse than a car dealership.



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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: saintyohann
Date: July 25, 2017 07:38PM
Quote
C(-)ris
That is so false it is numerous. AASPs that were shuttered didn't have an issue with handling the load or excessive wait times. It was a systematic effort by Apple to shut them all down.

I've never been seen on time for an appointment. Not once. I've been in dozens of Apple stores. Always wait, wait, wait. Always a different drone, no way to build a relationship, never an understanding. I could walk into an AASP I had done business with before and hand them a defective laptop with a note on top with the problem and my business card and walk out in 5 minutes flat. You can NEVER build that relationship in an Apple store, it is contrary to their structure.

As both a customer and employee of multiple AASPs in California, and a ex-fruitstand peep, none of the AASPs could handle what the load is now, maybe before the iPhone and iPod, but not now. Di-no, one of the better AASPs in CA took weeks to diagnose and repair any issue I had, even if the solution was to send a unit for a depot repair. Most Apple stores resolve between 1000-5000 issues a day. How could any AASP handle that workload, for free mind you, let alone around the world, all with the same system and expectations that most people are familiar and comfortable with?

There is a quick drop form, that lets someone do exactly as you suggest above, but it's a method of last resort because without being able to ask questions we only have a customer's description of the problem. And I can tell you that "computer crashed" can mean anything from a bad hard drive, video artifacts to a laptop needing a new battery (i.e. it takes three times as long playing phone tag to do an appointment over the phone).
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: July 25, 2017 08:37PM
Quote
saintyohann
Quote
C(-)ris
That is so false it is numerous. AASPs that were shuttered didn't have an issue with handling the load or excessive wait times. It was a systematic effort by Apple to shut them all down.

I've never been seen on time for an appointment. Not once. I've been in dozens of Apple stores. Always wait, wait, wait. Always a different drone, no way to build a relationship, never an understanding. I could walk into an AASP I had done business with before and hand them a defective laptop with a note on top with the problem and my business card and walk out in 5 minutes flat. You can NEVER build that relationship in an Apple store, it is contrary to their structure.

As both a customer and employee of multiple AASPs in California, and a ex-fruitstand peep, none of the AASPs could handle what the load is now, maybe before the iPhone and iPod, but not now. Di-no, one of the better AASPs in CA took weeks to diagnose and repair any issue I had, even if the solution was to send a unit for a depot repair. Most Apple stores resolve between 1000-5000 issues a day. How could any AASP handle that workload, for free mind you, let alone around the world, all with the same system and expectations that most people are familiar and comfortable with?

There is a quick drop form, that lets someone do exactly as you suggest above, but it's a method of last resort because without being able to ask questions we only have a customer's description of the problem. And I can tell you that "computer crashed" can mean anything from a bad hard drive, video artifacts to a laptop needing a new battery (i.e. it takes three times as long playing phone tag to do an appointment over the phone).

Guess it depends. I worked for an AASP that had no issue keeping up and completing hardware repairs on time....we never worked for free and did more hardware work than software work. Anything under hardware warranty was done under warranty and if it was out of warranty there was a structure for charges.

If you had an OS/Software issue that wasn't caused by a defective hardware part, that was an hourly rate.

All this was explained concisely at check-in. Maybe we were good at figuring out what the problem is, but if there is a legitimate hardware problem it is usually pretty apparent very quickly, with or without talking to the owner.

One of Apple's biggest mistakes is not immediately separating out hardware and software issues. I mean immediately. Don't even put them in the same line or appointment structure. If you have a defective piece of hardware you run your quick fixes/diagnostics and get that machine checked in and the customer out the door ASAP. Don't spend an hour of their time running hardware tests and diagnostics in front of them while they sit in a stool wasting their time and yours. Do it in the back of the shop when one person can run through 15 machines at once.

Nothing infuriates people more than when 5 people are all at the bar monopolizing the support taking up hours of time getting helped with an OS reinstall, corrupt iPhoto library, or some other nonsense that takes hours to resolve while you sit and wait behind them with a broken iPad that needs to be mailed in which should be a 15 minute transaction.



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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: ADent
Date: July 26, 2017 02:45AM
Make an appointment or you will have to wait 3 hours.

You can mail in most things - not sure why an iPad can not be sent in.

You don't HAVE to do to an Apple store. Microcenter was listed when I just set up an appointment - not sure what they would do though. If you bought from MC and bought their extended warranty you could work thru them though.

Skip Apple, buy HP. What is the wait like at the local HP store?

If you hook the iPad up to a computer with iTunes it can do a factory restore.
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I was looking at setting up an appointment today and surfed to Apple on my iPhone. Clicked on support, hardware problem. They emailed me a link. I clicked and it ran some diagnostics. I clicked back on the app and asked if I wanted phone, store, or mailed in support. I clicked store and up popped up a list of nearby service places and the soonest available appointment - Friday evening at the closest store, next day not too far away. I thought the support was great and expect my trip to the store to have a short wait.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2017 02:46AM by ADent.
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Re: Meh. Apple support for iOS needs improvement
Posted by: decay
Date: July 26, 2017 07:29AM
maybe it's easier for people to be without an iPad than for people to be without a working car.



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