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Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 12, 2017 05:36PM
I am still looking at a used VOLT and I see 2 similar cars, at the same dealer. I actually went in and saw the CPO one last week, we just didn't agree on price. Two days ago another car showed up online at the same dealership, that was probably not available last weekend.

The first one is CPO, 2014 Chevrolet Volt Premium - $18,495, 9,451 miles

[www.cargurus.com]

The second one is NOT CPO, 2014 Chevrolet Volt Premium - $16,495, 10,900 miles

[www.cargurus.com]

The mileage is a little higher, but that is negligible IMHO. The price is $2k less. I assume the second one is the better deal (assuming it is in decent shape, non smoking car, no accidents, no major scratches, etc). However, there remaining warranty is less than on CPO model.

Which one would you buy?

I am tempted to buy the second one.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: October 12, 2017 05:46PM
Who buys a hybrid and then doesn't drive it for 3 years?



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 12, 2017 05:49PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Who buys a hybrid and then doesn't drive it for 3 years?

good questions. Like someone mentioned in the recent thread about Hybrid cars, you find some Chevy Volt with low miles, and then there seems to be plenty with normal or higher mileage.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: TLB
Date: October 12, 2017 05:54PM
We have 3 cars in our household:

2007: 53K miles
2009: 49K
2008: 73K

I don't think we could drive more if we tried.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: hal
Date: October 12, 2017 05:54PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Who buys a hybrid and then doesn't drive it for 3 years?

dead people
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: davester
Date: October 12, 2017 05:58PM
CPO just means that it has a warranty. What is the length of the CPO warranty (typically 5 years, 100k miles whichever comes first) and is that worth $2k to you? Also note that the retail prices of warranties (both CPO and third party) are grossly above cost and can be bargained down substantially. I'd bet that there's a ton of extra profit in that extra $2k, thus giving you significant dealing space. Look up the price of third party warranties comparable to the CPO and then base your offer on what you think the car is worth (i.e. Kelley Blue Book) plus the cost of a third party warranty.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 06:00PM by davester.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 12, 2017 06:03PM
FWIW, I test drove the CPO car last weekend and I offered $17,600. They said 18,000. I said no, I left, they never called me back. I assume you cannot get more that $500 off on these. According to CarGurus, the car is already below market value (if you believe their charts)
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 12, 2017 06:04PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Who buys a hybrid and then doesn't drive it for 3 years?

Three years old now meaning lease return or government vehicle. The first car has leather seats, the second lists cloth and, AFAIK, shouldn't be 'Premium'. I would go as high as $15,500 on the first, $13,500 on the second because they are very low mileage.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 12, 2017 06:05PM
Speedy, I already offered 17,600 on the first one and they didn't sell it to me! How did you get such good deals on your Volt, guys?
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: October 12, 2017 06:20PM
Quote
space-time
Speedy, I already offered 17,600 on the first one and they didn't sell it to me! How did you get such good deals on your Volt, guys?

By waiting and shopping dealers against each other until you find one who needs to make a sale. Wait till the last few days of the money, and don't fall for a certain car.

We payed more than I wanted to for our 2015 Journey. Only got $500 of what they were asking. However, it was by FAR the nicest one in the area. No dings, dents, scratches, drove nice, etc. Very clean. Could have gotten others with less miles for less money, but went with the one that looked like it was taken care of.



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: October 12, 2017 06:48PM
Find out whether that's a dealer certification or a manufacturer certification.

The only used vehicles that I'd buy these days would be MANUFACTURER certified pre-owned.

There's no clear benefit over "used" if it's dealer-certified. Dealer-certified vehicles often have warranty coverage only at the place of purchase, for example, while manufacturer certified vehicles can be serviced under the extended warranty at any dealer.

If it's manufacturer-certified, that could add considerable value to a used car. Maybe not $2k worth. But price is negotiable. Especially (as I think C(-)ris meant to write) as it approaches the end of the month and salesmen try to cover their quotas.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 06:50PM by Onamuji.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: graylocks
Date: October 12, 2017 06:53PM
besides being premium, do either or both have safety packages 1 and/or 2?

if they are truly equal i'd go with the second one. you still have the 36,000 bumper to bumper to fall back on. if you do Facebook i would also suggest joining the Volt owners group and running the price and features by that hive mind.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 12, 2017 06:57PM
you still have the 36,000 bumper to bumper to fall back on

I thought it was 36k/3 years bumper to bumper, and since this is a 2014 models, probably a 3 year lease return, the time is up.

Yes, drive train and battery should have additional warranty.

I was not aware of the safety packages 1 and 2, I need to look into that.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 12, 2017 07:00PM
Quote
Onamuji
Find out whether that's a dealer certification or a manufacturer certification.

The only used vehicles that I'd buy these days would be MANUFACTURER certified pre-owned.

...

*** CLEAN CARFAX *** ONE OWNER *** NAVIGATION *** HEATED SEATS *** REAR VISION CAMERA *** GM CERTIFIED: WHICH MEANS YOU GET A 12 MONTH/12,000 MILE BUMPER TO BUMPER LIMITED WARRANTY STARTING AT THE DATE OF PURCHASE, PLUS A $0 DEDUCTIBLE, FULLY TRANSFERABLE POWERTRAIN LIMITED WARRANTY UNTIL 08/09/2020 OR 100,000 MILES, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST! Chevrolet Certified vehicles also include a 2yr/24,000-Mile Standard CPO Maintenance Plan with two included visits, a 172-point Inspection/Reconditioning, 24/7 Roadside Assistance, Courtesy Transportation, 3-Day/150-Mile Customer Satisfaction Guarantee, 3 month trial OnStar Directions & Connections Service if available, Sirius XM Radio 3mo trial if available, and a vehicle history report. 4D Hatchback, Voltec Electric Drive Unit, Single Reduction Gear, FWD, White Diamond Tricoat, and Pebble Beige Suede/Leather. Previous owner purchased it brand new! Want to save some money? Get the NEW look for the used price on this extremely fuel efficient 2014 Volt. Don't miss this double-bargain of saving at the dealership AND at the pump! Highlights include 17" Painted Aluminum Wheels, Heated Front Bucket Seats, AM/FM/XM Touchscreen Radio, Navigation, a Universal Home Remote, Automatic Air Conditioning, a Leather-Wrapped Tilt/Telescopic Steering Wheel, an Auto-Dimming Rear View Mirror, and Remote Keyless Entry. Power features include Windows, Door Locks, and Mirrors. Safety features include OnStar, Rear View Camera, Rear Park Assist, Forward Collision Alert, Anti-Lock Brake System, Tire Pressure Monitor, and more! EVERYDAY LOW SALE PRICES TO SELL NOW! ORIGINAL MSRP WAS $39,350!

Additional Information
Front Wheel Drive,Power Steering,ABS,4-Wheel Disc Brakes,Traction Control,Stability Control,Aluminum Wheels,Tires - Front Performance,Tires - Rear Performance,Rear Spoiler,Automatic Headlights,Heated Mirrors,Power Mirror(s),Integrated Turn Signal Mirrors,Intermittent Wipers,Variable Speed Intermittent Wipers,AM/FM Stereo,CD Player,MP3 Player,Bluetooth Connection,Auxiliary Audio Input,Smart Device Integration,Satellite Radio,Bucket Seats,Cloth Seats,Pass-Through Rear Seat,Rear Bench Seat,Power Outlet,Floor Mats,Adjustable Steering Wheel,Leather Steering Wheel,Steering Wheel Audio Controls,Telematics,Keyless Start,Power Windows,Power Door Locks,Keyless Entry,Engine Immobilizer,Remote Engine Start,Cruise Control,Universal Garage Door Opener,Climate Control,A/C,Rear Defrost,Driver Vanity Mirror,Passenger Vanity Mirror,Driver Illuminated Vanity Mirror,Passenger Illuminated Visor Mirror,Cargo Shade,Brake Assist,Daytime Running Lights,Driver Air Bag,Passenger Air Bag,Front Side Air Bag,Rear Side Air Bag,Passenger Air Bag Sensor,Knee Air Bag,Navigation from Telematics,Security System,Child Safety Locks,Tire Pressure Monitor
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: graylocks
Date: October 12, 2017 07:05PM
Quote
space-time
you still have the 36,000 bumper to bumper to fall back on

I thought it was 36k/3 years bumper to bumper, and since this is a 2014 models, probably a 3 year lease return, the time is up.

Yes, drive train and battery should have additional warranty.

I was not aware of the safety packages 1 and 2, I need to look into that.

oh, right, there is a 3 year cap. still, GM did right by the Volt and i'd not put too much weight on CPO. in fact, just today on the Clark Howard podcast he was saying that certification a waste.

i don't know how the packages divide up but they includes things like rear-view camera, lane assist, auto-dimming rear-view mirror (i think), rear parking assist, front parking assist, collision alert and some others.

Edit: just saw your features post. seems to have at least parts of the safety package. all volts have TPMS and remote keyless entry. all used Volts get free Onstar for 3 months and then OnStar basic free for three years after that if you don't elect to pay for the premium services.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 07:10PM by graylocks.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: October 12, 2017 07:17PM
....what about CP3O.....???



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: JoeH
Date: October 12, 2017 07:22PM
Quote
C(-)ris
Who buys a hybrid and then doesn't drive it for 3 years?

Don't know, but there is a 2017 Volt in my area listed as used with about 12K for mileage. A bit high mileage for a car used as a demo, but possibly is one. As I recall it was a higher end model, asking price was about $25-26k.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 07:33PM by JoeH.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 12, 2017 07:30PM
For comparison, I use cars.com to see what is out there. They list 1217 2014 Volts for sale. There are 50 of them listed under $13,500, some with over 100k miles.

FYI, I paid $15,000 for a 2013 Volt in April 2016. It had 38k miles. It had similar features to the one you are looking at except it did not have the rear camera (which is a very nice extra). It bought it from a used car dealer, not a new car dealer. Based on what I paid, and moving forward a year into 2017, you should be able to find a 2014 for a similar price as I did plus extra for the camera and the lower mileage. That is how I came up with my offer price in my earlier post (I like to low ball). I drove about 70 miles to the dealer.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 07:36PM by Speedy.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: October 12, 2017 07:33PM
How many miles are EV vs gas? There were lots of Gen1 Volts that were used as fleet vehicles for GE that were likely never once changed in their lives. Those had lifetime MPG in the 35-45 range, but had 20k miles on them.



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 12, 2017 07:34PM
(I like to low ball).

me too, first time they had one with 8k miles, also 2014. I offered 16k, they refused. a few days later they called, I told them I only pay 16k, they said that car was sold. now we're looking at these two. This dealer has 6-7 Volt in stock, other dealers have 1 or none.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 12, 2017 07:36PM
Quote
ztirffritz
How many miles are EV vs gas? There were lots of Gen1 Volts that were used as fleet vehicles for GE that were likely never once changed in their lives. Those had lifetime MPG in the 35-45 range, but had 20k miles on them.

I was not able to find out. The first 2014 I tested at a different dealership has 28k miles and the sales lady was unable to look this up. I also tried for about 2-3 minutes looking at the menus and I did not find this information. At the second car I forgot to check.

how the heck do you find this info? Where is it hidden?

EDIT: and if if they were all on gas, what difference would that make?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 07:37PM by space-time.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: graylocks
Date: October 12, 2017 07:43PM
Quote
space-time

I was not able to find out. The first 2014 I tested at a different dealership has 28k miles and the sales lady was unable to look this up. I also tried for about 2-3 minutes looking at the menus and I did not find this information. At the second car I forgot to check.

how the heck do you find this info? Where is it hidden?

it's not really available on the car. once you buy it you can register with Voltstats and find out but i think only if the original owner joined Voltstats. actually, becoming part of OnStar can give you a figure also with the Safety level of membership. but when buying, when you look on the Energy Screen there's a lifetime MPG figure. generally, if that's in the low range like 40 or 50 mpg then the car was mostly driven ICE. my Volt with 59K miles has a lifetime MPG of 150. Onstar tells me that 75% (44,386 miles) of that has been electric.

You find the Energy Menu by clicking the Leaf button on the left side of the center console.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 07:46PM by graylocks.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 12, 2017 07:45PM
Of they 1217 2014 Volts, your higher priced one is in the top 65 cars in price. Too high. A 30k to 40k mile Volt is just getting broken in. More important are accidents and condition.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: October 12, 2017 07:52PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
C(-)ris
Who buys a hybrid and then doesn't drive it for 3 years?

Don't know, but there is a 2017 Volt in my area listed as used with about 12K for mileage. A bit high mileage for a car used as a demo, but possibly is one. As I recall it was a higher end model, asking price was about $25-26k.

Could have been one I drove. I had 30k on my Forester after the first 10 months.



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: October 12, 2017 07:55PM
Quote
ztirffritz
How many miles are EV vs gas? There were lots of Gen1 Volts that were used as fleet vehicles for GE that were likely never once changed in their lives. Those had lifetime MPG in the 35-45 range, but had 20k miles on them.

Is that good or bad? I could see it either way...fresh battery packs, but an ICE engine that was used more than it was engineered for.



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: October 12, 2017 07:57PM
My car has lifetime MPG of 150mpg, well 145 now. I just did a 200 mile roundtrip drive today for work, but it averaged 41.5mpg for 200 miles and that included driving over Blewett Pass in eastern Washington.



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 12, 2017 08:00PM


Yours is right on the curve (cars.com) for asking price for that year and mileage. I guess the low mileage is what is making it worth a few thousand more than I thought it should be priced. If you go to the actual page and let the graph load, you can click on individual data points to see those cars. I'd check out the one at approximate coordinates $15,500 x 22k miles. Edit: I see it has cloth seats which I don't like due to static in the winter.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 08:07PM by Speedy.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 12, 2017 08:07PM
Here is the second car, seems like a decent price if you believe that graph

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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: October 12, 2017 09:51PM
Quote
space-time
Here is the second car, seems like a decent price if you believe that graph


Hey, where did you get that kind of graph?



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 13, 2017 05:32AM
car gurus
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: October 13, 2017 06:08AM
....just....own....it.....!



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: October 13, 2017 10:23AM
Quote
C(-)ris
Quote
ztirffritz
How many miles are EV vs gas? There were lots of Gen1 Volts that were used as fleet vehicles for GE that were likely never once changed in their lives. Those had lifetime MPG in the 35-45 range, but had 20k miles on them.

Is that good or bad? I could see it either way...fresh battery packs, but an ICE engine that was used more than it was engineered for.

35-45mpg for the lifetime rating would indicate that the first 40 miles the vehicle was driven was likely the ONLY EV miles the vehicle was driven. If you even charge it once a week it will push you into the 50s most likely.



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Racer X
Date: October 13, 2017 10:37PM
My Prius plug-in gets 55, and I drive it like a race car. Why bother with all the drama of a cord? (the plug-in model has a Lithium battery, vs the standard NiMH, which is why it is so effecient)
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: space-time
Date: October 14, 2017 06:17AM
Why bother with all the drama of a cord?

1) dedicated parking spot in front at work.
2) free charging at work
3) this is the future, we might as well embrace it now.
4) less maintenance
5) quiet drive
6) high torque, fast acceleration
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: billb
Date: October 14, 2017 10:46AM
7) should drive down the price of oil for those of us that are shouldering the subsidies



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: October 14, 2017 11:46AM
......and side effect....help the environment......



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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Racer X
Date: October 14, 2017 02:29PM
Quote
space-time
Why bother with all the drama of a cord?

1) dedicated parking spot in front at work.
2) free charging at work
3) this is the future, we might as well embrace it now.
4) less maintenance
5) quiet drive
6) high torque, fast acceleration

Sounds like my plug-in Prius, but I can run on gas too.

Why is the Volt's fuel economy so low in the ICE?
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 14, 2017 03:56PM
Quote
Racer X
Quote
space-time
Why bother with all the drama of a cord?

1) dedicated parking spot in front at work.
2) free charging at work
3) this is the future, we might as well embrace it now.
4) less maintenance
5) quiet drive
6) high torque, fast acceleration

Sounds like my plug-in Prius, but I can run on gas too.

Why is the Volt's fuel economy so low in the ICE?

Heavier car; 0 to 60 in 7.1 seconds. It is not a gran tourer but rather a sporty grocery getter.

I have asked Volt owners I see in parking lots how they like their Volts. They all say, 'best car I've ever owned.' Not just because it is electric but because it is over engineered and built to last.

I had been driving VW Diesels since 2004. Hypermiling most of the time, sort of. Rarely would I put my foot in them. Now in our Volt I enjoy flooring it often. Not from a dead stop but after I hit 15 MPH or so and the cars beside me are shifting, I press the accelerator down just as they change gears to show how obsolete their noisy cars are, and so they can read the Volt logo across the back as I pull away. My wife does not like me doing it: "Grow up!"; just one more reason to go fast.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Used vs Certified Pre-Owned
Posted by: Racer X
Date: October 14, 2017 04:15PM
I feel that way when I use the "Power" setting on my Prius.

If they just made a non-ugly body........
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