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Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: hal
Date: November 07, 2017 03:18PM
So Apple reformats drives (ONLY Apple installed PCI SSDs) before it installs High Sierra. But I noticed while wiping a hard drive using an HS bootable installer, that the new format IS an option even for non-apple spinny drives.

What advantage/disadvantage might there be?

I installed on my 2013 MBP and the new format doesn't seem any different EXCEPT duplicating a 10GB file only take two seconds now. I don't do that often...
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: OWC Larry
Date: November 07, 2017 03:50PM
You will not be happy for long if you put APFS on a hard drive. APFS does a much better job protecting Meta data in situations that could cause corruption on HFS+ drives (power loss, disconnection, etc).... but the way it handles files - especially once you duplicate a file or enable Time Machine - super slowdown the more you do with a file after that duplication or time machine enabling. We're going to have a detailed blog on this that explains just how some APFS features work / illustrate with imagery.... but highly recommend sticking with HFS+ with hard drive. Even outside of a fragmentation factor that causes HDD slowing... tests we've done indicate about 20-25% slower real data ingest performance via SSDs with APFS vs. HFS+ today (time to copy data from one APFS volume to another separate volume (not same container which is not a real copy...) and about 50% slower performance with same test set and hard drives.

We're going to have a really good blog on this.... there is lots of good with APFS - but it does have a price today in general... and likely will always have the bigger initial and ongoing slowdown cost with HDD the way it operates.



OWC Larry
Other World Computing
[www.macsales.com]
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: hal
Date: November 07, 2017 04:17PM
Thanks Larry - please let us know when this post goes up.

Sorry to hear that it's not good even for SSDs (yet)
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: November 07, 2017 05:00PM
I’ve read reports of SSDs not installed by Apple being converted to APFS. There has been quite a bit about the new file system posted at MacInTouch.
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: testcase
Date: November 07, 2017 07:55PM
Do we get a choice re switching to the new file system or remaining with the old? On my Late 2011 (June 2012) 17" MBP, I have a non-Apple (Sanyo) 1TB SSD. I back up to an Apple Time Capsule via ethernet. dunno smiley

I've been holding at macOS Sierra v10.12.6 because of this. I've wondered if I should actually "wind back" to
Mavericks OS 10.9?
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: November 07, 2017 08:14PM
From what I’ve read, you will not be asked whether you want to format the drive as APFS. It will be done, on third-party drives as well as Apple-installed. There is pretty much NO compelling reason to install High Sierra at this point.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2017 08:15PM by ka jowct.
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: hal
Date: November 07, 2017 08:27PM
Quote
ka jowct
From what I’ve read, you will not be asked whether you want to format the drive as APFS. It will be done, on third-party drives as well as Apple-installed. There is pretty much NO compelling reason to install High Sierra at this point.

I've installed it several times on 3rd party spinny drives and the formatting of those drives did not change.
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: November 07, 2017 09:09PM
Quote
testcase
Do we get a choice re switching to the new file system or remaining with the old? On my Late 2011 (June 2012) 17" MBP, I have a non-Apple (Sanyo) 1TB SSD. I back up to an Apple Time Capsule via ethernet. dunno smiley

There's a command that you can use in the Terminal to install without the conversion, but in my experience it's only worked 50% of the time.

It threw an error and wouldn't install High Sierra at all when it failed.



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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 07, 2017 10:08PM
And here I thought the new drive format was 'No hands', but I realize Apple largely disbanded their autonomous car division...
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: ka jowct
Date: November 08, 2017 07:59AM
Quote
hal
Quote
ka jowct
From what I’ve read, you will not be asked whether you want to format the drive as APFS. It will be done, on third-party drives as well as Apple-installed. There is pretty much NO compelling reason to install High Sierra at this point.

I've installed it several times on 3rd party spinny drives and the formatting of those drives did not change.

Exactly. It converts SSDs, whether you want that or not. It leaves spinning drives alone.
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: November 08, 2017 08:16AM
....Baby....drive......r......



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Discuss Apple's new drive format
Posted by: GeneL
Date: November 09, 2017 01:43AM
Yikes! This topic couldn't have come at a better time. With all of my health issues, Mavis' Mini developed a problem that I couldn't deal with. It would boot, but like my Mac Pro, the screen would turn off almost immediately.

I had been following the Mini refurbs on Apple's website for sometime and when no Mini refurbs showed up for a while, I started watching the 21.5 inch 4K Retina models. I had missed several great deals on Mini's because Mavis had other things on her mind, but when a 21.5 inch 4K Retina 3.3 i7 2015 iMac with a 2TB Fusion screen and 8GB of RAM showed up at a little over $1495, I felt it was perfect timing.

Now that we have it at home, I have been moving her existing files over and almost everything is perfect, but it will be a major project to clean out the years of accumulated duplicates and junk that she never deleted. Any tips on the best way to do the "house cleaning" on her files or if there's a utility that would make it easier?
I just got her a beautiful little 2TB WD portable drive to use as a back up. That's where my question comes from.

First, do have to structure the Fusion drive in some way or is that done automatically? Then, how do I set up the external drive? In the past, I have used Disc Utility to format a new drive, and but the iMac is running (I think?) OS 10.11? Is there some special way that I have to format the backup drive to work with a Fusion drive? What do I use to do this?

As you all probably know, this is a stressful time for me. I visited a dialysis center today, and I because it looks like my kidney failure is imminent. I will appreciate any tips you can can give me for this "new to me" drive setup.

One other issue that I ran into was how to configure the Apple Calendar app to sync with my computer and both of our cell phones. I had this working previously, syncing with my Google calendar, but it's been a while and I can't remember how I did it.

As always, I thank you for your kind thoughts and assistance.

GeneL

Lastly, I am posting from my new Note 8 and while I have been typing away, several pop ups appeared, I warning me that the web page was not secure. I have never seen this before, but I so I am wondering why this was happening? Thanks again!



gl @ Dana Point, CA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2017 03:05AM by GeneL.
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