advertisement
Forums

The Forum is sponsored by 
 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the Tips and Deals forum
In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: freeradical
Date: November 19, 2017 06:34PM
...to qualify for a loan for a home at the median price.

Wow

This piece is insane.


Quote

What happens in a large urban market when a young couple with a household income that is far above median cannot afford to buy even a modest home? What happens to that local economy? That’s what everyone wants to know, because this is precisely the fate San Francisco, Silicon Valley, and surrounding Bay Area counties are contemplating.

The Housing Affordability Index (HAI), released by the California Association of Realtors (CAR), has some bad news for these people – and possibly for the trends in the local economy and the housing market.

The median price – 50% cost more, 50% cost less – in San Francisco of a single-family house hit $1.45 million in Q2, according to CAR. This does not include condos, whose prices are somewhat less deadly. It puts San Francisco in second place in the Bay Area, behind San Mateo County, which comprises the northern part of Silicon Valley. Santa Clara County, in fourth place, comprises the southern part of Silicon Valley. In third place is Marin County, just north of the Golden Gate Bridge:

[wolfstreet.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: hal
Date: November 19, 2017 06:48PM
That's why prices in Sacramento have been on the rise and the ascent is getting steeper. People can't afford to live in the bay area. Every teen in Sacramento wants to move to SF when they grow up - many use to do that being very creative to afford it, but it's just not possible anymore.

15 years ago, my sister hunted high and low for a reasonable place to raise their child and almost gave up before finding a nice place in Alameda - it only took 115% offer to get it. They both worked and had GOOD incomes. Now, they are rather wealthy by my standards, but there is no way that they could find an affordable place NOW even in the same area. They are hanging on tight to their nice little place.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: November 19, 2017 07:01PM
SF is a geographically small place, and has an unusually strict policy of height constraints as well as general zoning conditions. Combine that with beauty, climate, and booming economy, you've got what you've got.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: billb
Date: November 19, 2017 07:05PM
Companies left SO SanFran 20 years ago for Washington for the exact same reason. This is really nothing new.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: freeradical
Date: November 19, 2017 07:07PM
These crazy prices have affected job creation in the Bay Area.

Employment growth has flat lined.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: hal
Date: November 19, 2017 07:28PM
Quote
freeradical
These crazy prices have affected job creation in the Bay Area.

Employment growth has flat lined.

What would you expect from a finite system? SF is small and is 100% developed. Where would these new workers work if you can't build a new place for them to work?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: November 19, 2017 08:03PM
How is this any different than NYC?



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: November 19, 2017 08:17PM
Quote
C(-)ris
How is this any different than NYC?

Prices aren't just high in that area, but also in all of the surrounding regions.

Working in NYC, you can find a place in Brooklyn... or Long Island... or Staten Island if you don't mind the reputation... or even Jersey if you can keep it a secret.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: davester
Date: November 19, 2017 08:18PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
SF is a geographically small place, and has an unusually strict policy of height constraints as well as general zoning conditions. Combine that with beauty, climate, and booming economy, you've got what you've got.

Exactly. San Francisco proper is geographically unusual in that regard and most of the city has been out-of-reach for most people who work there since probably the 1980s. That's why most people who work in SF live in outlying areas and why it has been this way since at least the 1960s and probably earlier. It's basically the west coast version of Manhattan.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: space-time
Date: November 19, 2017 08:28PM
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
C(-)ris
How is this any different than NYC?

Prices aren't just high in that area, but also in all of the surrounding regions.

Working in NYC, you can find a place in Brooklyn... or Long Island... or Staten Island if you don't mind the reputation... or even Jersey if you can keep it a secret.

Come and visit Princeton and you may change your mind about NJ. What you see from the Turnpike is not what NJ looks like.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: November 19, 2017 08:35PM
Quote
space-time
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
C(-)ris
How is this any different than NYC?

Prices aren't just high in that area, but also in all of the surrounding regions.

Working in NYC, you can find a place in Brooklyn... or Long Island... or Staten Island if you don't mind the reputation... or even Jersey if you can keep it a secret.

Come and visit Princeton and you may change your mind about NJ. What you see from the Turnpike is not what NJ looks like.

It's not that there aren't places in Jersey that aren't built on heaps of stinking toxic waste that slowly erode the mind and twist the body into something resembling a balding gnome. It's that New Yorkers immediately assume that anyone living in Jersey is living on heaps of stinking toxic waste that slowly erode the mind and twist the body into something resembling a balding gnome.

...And they're not always wrong.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: November 19, 2017 08:55PM
Let's talk about something important. Put. That coffee. Down. Coffee's for closers only. You think I'm @#$%& with you? I am not @#$%& with you. I'm here from downtown.

@#$%& you! That's my name! You know why, mister? You drove a Hyundai to get here. I drove an eighty-thousand dollar BMW. THAT'S my name. And your name is you're wanting. You can't play in the man's game, you can't close them - go home and tell your wife your troubles. Because only one thing counts in this life: Get them to sign on the line which is dotted. You hear me, you @#$%& @#$%&?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 19, 2017 09:39PM
Living in San Francisco is perfectly doable. Lots of roommates. That's exactly what they do.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: freeradical
Date: November 19, 2017 10:04PM
Quote
vision63
Living in San Francisco is perfectly doable. Lots of roommates. That's exactly what they do.

Overcrowding isn't pretty.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: blooz
Date: November 19, 2017 10:09PM
Quote
space-time
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
C(-)ris
How is this any different than NYC?

Prices aren't just high in that area, but also in all of the surrounding regions.

Working in NYC, you can find a place in Brooklyn... or Long Island... or Staten Island if you don't mind the reputation... or even Jersey if you can keep it a secret.

Come and visit Princeton and you may change your mind about NJ. What you see from the Turnpike is not what NJ looks like.

My problem with New jersey is not the scenery, it's the traffic. I find driving there to be scary—and mind you, I live where i have to put up with Boston drivers.



And we should consider every day lost on which we have not danced at least once.
—Friedrich Nietzsche
Western Massachusetts
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: Bo
Date: November 19, 2017 10:23PM
It is certainly going to be interesting how this all plays out here in the bay area.

We bought our modest house in Marin 13 years ago and it can certainly be a struggle at times. Having a two earner household is pretty much mandatory and even at that it takes a pretty good chunk of my wife's and my income to make it work.

We play the game of what moving somewhere else would allow us to afford but at the end of the day we just can't imagine leaving (having been raised here and still having family here is certainly a factor).

It is a wonderful place to live and I do my best to never take it for granted and always avail myself of all it has to offer.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 19, 2017 10:26PM
Quote
freeradical
Quote
vision63
Living in San Francisco is perfectly doable. Lots of roommates. That's exactly what they do.

Overcrowding isn't pretty.

I'm there everyday. They all do it. My neice goes to SF State. 7 girls in a 2 bedroom apt where they each pay $700.

San Francisco is a playground.

I just texted her. It's 6.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2017 10:28PM by vision63.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: digby
Date: November 19, 2017 11:44PM
I was going to stay on my kid's floor in SF. Called a week before just to check..."Uhh, yeah. We've got a friend crashing on the floor for a few months, and we already had one person on the floor. And the couch is where my homie Beano sleeps. So you might wanna find somewhere else, sorry."

I got to see the place. Tiny walkup in the Tenderloin. His "room" was one end of the kitchen. He'd sectioned it off with a shoji screen, but he had room for a small mattress and a bedside table. And was learning to sleep through people making breakfast.

But he's ridiculously happy there.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: November 20, 2017 12:18AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
freeradical
Quote
vision63
Living in San Francisco is perfectly doable. Lots of roommates. That's exactly what they do.

Overcrowding isn't pretty.

I'm there everyday. They all do it. My neice goes to SF State. 7 girls in a 2 bedroom apt where they each pay $700.

San Francisco is a playground.

I just texted her. It's 6.

So you find that to be an acceptable state of affairs?



It is what it is.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: freeradical
Date: November 20, 2017 12:27AM
Quote
vision63


San Francisco is a playground.


For the one percenters.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: November 20, 2017 05:41AM
And to think, I used to live in Bay Area...



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 20, 2017 07:58AM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
vision63
Quote
freeradical
Quote
vision63
Living in San Francisco is perfectly doable. Lots of roommates. That's exactly what they do.

Overcrowding isn't pretty.

I'm there everyday. They all do it. My neice goes to SF State. 7 girls in a 2 bedroom apt where they each pay $700.

San Francisco is a playground.

I just texted her. It's 6.

So you find that to be an acceptable state of affairs?

They're all happy.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: November 20, 2017 08:01AM
....you can't distress yourself over things you have no ability to change....



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 20, 2017 08:02AM
Quote
freeradical
Quote
vision63


San Francisco is a playground.


For the one percenters.

No way. For everyone. Most people love "The City." It's why they make the sacrifices. You can't beat San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley. A deeply satisfying tapestry of activities, beauty and cultures. It's never boring.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: 3d
Date: November 20, 2017 08:22AM
In NYC, I lived in an unheated, basement "room" with no window, next to an oil tank boiler. The ceiling height was 6'6". No phone but my pager (this was in the 90s) had reception. There was a sink, toilet and shower. Lived there all throughout college. AND I LOVED IT. Brought college girls over for Ramen and take-out dinner dates to "study together". It was great! When you're young and away from the parents any (literal) hole in the wall will do.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: November 20, 2017 09:33AM
I lived in Hawaii for four years for FREE using this one small trick that landlords HATE!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: davester
Date: November 20, 2017 09:40AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
freeradical
Quote
vision63


San Francisco is a playground.


For the one percenters.

No way. For everyone. Most people love "The City." It's why they make the sacrifices. You can't beat San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley. A deeply satisfying tapestry of activities, beauty and cultures. It's never boring.

Absolutely! We love and appreciate the experience of living here, despite the huge cost. The reason SF area is so expensive is that it is such a great place to exist. If it wasn't so great it'd be vastly cheaper and there wouldn't be so many people coming here on vacation. The recent "what should I do while visiting SF on vacation" thread was an example of just how many great things to experience here. Like Bo, we sometimes play the game of supposing that we could sell our ridiculously expensive modest house and moving somewhere where we'd be able to have extra cash. However, that game never works. All of those other places don't have our friends and family, and don't have the multitude of natural and cultural features there are here. We're willing to make the sacrifice to get the rewards.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2017 09:50AM by davester.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: rz
Date: November 20, 2017 09:42AM
Quote
3d
When you're young and away from the parents any (literal) hole in the wall will do.

The problem is... you grow up. Living in a hole in the wall, or 7 people sharing a 2BR apt, or having a bunch of random people sleeping on your floor is great when you're in college. After that? I don't care how much stuff there is to do, or how great the culture is. If an "average" house costs north of 1.4M, it's not worth it.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: November 20, 2017 10:14AM
“Nobody goes there any more. It’s too crowded.”
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 20, 2017 10:44AM
Quote
rz
Quote
3d
When you're young and away from the parents any (literal) hole in the wall will do.

The problem is... you grow up. Living in a hole in the wall, or 7 people sharing a 2BR apt, or having a bunch of random people sleeping on your floor is great when you're in college. After that? I don't care how much stuff there is to do, or how great the culture is. If an "average" house costs north of 1.4M, it's not worth it.

These people are young. They're building up who they are. They hop on one of the many "Google" busses to their jobs in the Silicone Valley (Google Bus is the euphemism for all the companies that shuttle their workforces from San Francisco, Oakland and Berkeley). They spend the weekend hanging out doing their thing. No different than me living in Brooklyn when I was younger trying to make it.

They're panning for gold just like the old Forty Niners. Just like the Dot Commers from the late 90's. Once you've survived San Francisco or L.A., you'll thrive anywhere else. A proper education.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: August West
Date: November 20, 2017 11:14AM
Quote
space-time
Quote
Onamuji
Quote
C(-)ris
How is this any different than NYC?

Prices aren't just high in that area, but also in all of the surrounding regions.

Working in NYC, you can find a place in Brooklyn... or Long Island... or Staten Island if you don't mind the reputation... or even Jersey if you can keep it a secret.

Come and visit Princeton and you may change your mind about NJ. What you see from the Turnpike is not what NJ looks like.

Stayed with some Princetonite friends in Hopewell. It was very nice at their house.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: November 20, 2017 11:16AM
....but Princeton is.....upper crusty.........



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: pdq
Date: November 21, 2017 02:32PM
It's a legitimate problem with desirable, area-limited cities. At some point, rich investors start buying up properties not to live there, and not to rent, but as investments.

Happens in NYC and London, prolly other places too. I don't know what the answer is, but it seems to me that it's one of the great real-world problems unaddressed by modern economics. (Another one is why we all have to keep running faster just to stay in the same place; another is how is automation going to help the world when only wealthy people and companies can afford to own wealth-producing automation.)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: In San Francisco, you need an income of $290,630...
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: November 22, 2017 09:23AM
Not just the bay area, but also many other urban areas of southern California.

An old college roommate bought their modest (Levittown-size) home in a suburb of San Jose for ~$500,000, ~15 years ago.

Zillow (and comps) have it now at triple that price (at least)

His company will probably move within the next couple of years to AZ/NM, consolidating locations, but also because prospective employees can no longer afford local housing.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2017 09:24AM by Bill in NC.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 151
Record Number of Users: 52 on November 20, 2014
Record Number of Guests: 847 on February 04, 2015