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Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: Winston
Date: January 10, 2018 08:18PM
Sleepless late last night I was fooling around with my iPhone and opened the myAT&T app I'd downloaded, but not used. User agreement pops up I'm supposed to agree to. So, I read it.

It's unbelievable what it requires.

[m.att.com]

1. AT&T wants me to defend them if they've used someone else's software improperly.
Quote

3.2 Third Party Software. The Application may utilize or include third party software that is subject to open source and third party license terms ("Third Party Software"). . . .

3.4 Infringement Acknowledgement. You and AT&T acknowledge and agree that, in the event of a third party claim that the Application or your possession or use of the Application infringes any third party's intellectual property rights, you (and not AT&T or Apple) will be responsible for the investigation, defense, settlement, and discharge of any such claim of intellectual property infringement. You will, however, promptly notify AT&T in writing of such a claim.

Oh, I get to inform them I'm defending them? How nice.


2. If I install the app on more than one device I violate the user agreement. And I can't transfer it to another device, either.
Quote

2.2 Restrictions on Use. You shall use the Application strictly in accordance with the terms of this License, and shall not: . . . (f) install, use or permit the Application to exist on more than one Device at a time or on any other mobile device or computer; (g) copy the Application to multiple Devices; (h) make the Application available over a network or other environment permitting access or use by multiple Devices or users at the same time;

Quote

4. Restriction on Transfer. You may not rent, lease, lend, sublicense, or transfer the Application, this License, or any of the rights granted hereunder. Any attempted transfer in contravention of this provision shall be null and void and of no force or effect.


What idiot attorneys did AT&T have on this? It's written like an MS Office user agreement, where they are afraid I'll lend it to every third cousin and casual friend for free use.

Mind you, it's an app to let me manage my AT&T account. I'm sure no one would ever want to do that from, say, an iPhone and an iPad.


This reminds me of a health insurance plan I looked at in late 2015. It had a joint and several liability clause for the policy holders. I asked the agent selling it if he knew what that meant. He said "well, it's not intended to be used". The plan went bankrupt in November 2016. Policy holders got a letter telling them about their individual liability for the entire debts of the plan.


Another strike against AT&T.


- Winston



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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: space-time
Date: January 10, 2018 08:25PM
How many people really read AND UNDERSTAND these agreements/TOS/EULA?
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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: Acer
Date: January 10, 2018 08:59PM
I only read the part that says "Click here to agree."
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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: January 10, 2018 09:04PM
Put anything you want in a EULA.

But no one knows what's actually enforceable until you go to court.

Sony could have disclosed its "rootkit" in the EULA and that wouldn't have stopped the states from prosecuting them.
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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: Winston
Date: January 10, 2018 09:05PM
Usually I also just click the "Agree", or at best skim the terms.

If AT&T tried to enforce the terms they'd probably get countersued, and the PR would be terrible.

But the PR should be terrible for just writing it this way.

- W



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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: freeradical
Date: January 10, 2018 09:10PM
The first thing we do...
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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: Winston
Date: January 10, 2018 09:14PM
There's nothing wrong with good legal work. The best legal work is clear, and keeps everyone out of trouble, because everyone knows what to expect. This is BAD legal work.



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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: JoeH
Date: January 10, 2018 09:33PM
Quote
Winston
There's nothing wrong with good legal work. The best legal work is clear, and keeps everyone out of trouble, because everyone knows what to expect. This is BAD legal work.

I have to agree.

Several decades ago there were several initiatives to require "plain language" legal agreements that would not take up pages of fine print to cover the points of the agreement. I recall many easy to understand agreements resulting from that. But sometime in the last 20-25 years there was a lot of backsliding into pages of legalese that appears intended to obfuscate more than inform you on what you are agreeing to.
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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: billb
Date: January 10, 2018 09:38PM
They hire lawyers to cover their asses first and foremost.
They hire PR to assuage the lawyer's works.

Welcome to the corporate global economy.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: neophyte
Date: January 11, 2018 12:19AM
Quote
Winston

Quote

2.2 Restrictions on Use. You shall use the Application strictly in accordance with the terms of this License, and shall not: . . . (f) install, use or permit the Application to exist on more than one Device at a time or on any other mobile device or computer; (g) copy the Application to multiple Devices; (h) make the Application available over a network or other environment permitting access or use by multiple Devices or users at the same time;

Well, in order to be on the legal side of AT&T's terms, it seems only you, and no one else in the whole world, can have and use the app, unless you delete it from your device.

If it's not too much trouble, why don't you just go ahead and keep it. Won't bother me none.
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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: Onamuji
Date: January 11, 2018 06:48AM
Quote
Bill in NC
But no one knows what's actually enforceable until you go to court legally binding one-sided "arbitration" where AT&T picks the arbitrator and you pay for both the arbitrator and AT&T's legal fees.

FTFY.



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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: GuyGene
Date: January 11, 2018 09:58AM
I am done with ATT.

Acronym challegened me, RE: FTFY, hmmm, nothing I can come up with comes out good.



That old man - he don't think like no old man...
Now I wouldn't want to be within 400 - 500 yards of one of them nuclear bombs when it goes off! WW1 Vet Old Man
"He's pinned under an outcropping of rock. Lucky for him, the rock kept the dirt from burying him alive."
If idiots could fly, this place would be an airport. And I'd be a TSA agent.
A bonified member of The Mystic Knights of The Sea, George P. Stevens, President. Andy Brown, Treasurer, Algonquin J. Calhoun, Legal Consultant.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2018 09:17AM by GuyGene.
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Re: Unbelievable: myAT&T app user agreement requires me to defend them
Posted by: Racer X
Date: January 11, 2018 11:56PM
I recall a while ago, as a joke, a developer put in you relinquish rights to your first born in his EULA. No body caught it for a long time.
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