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Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: March 03, 2018 05:27PM
It's time for a new hot water heater. We're looking at 40-60 gallons, natural gas, energy star, power damper.

I'd really welcome any suggestions for brands or models that are particularly good, and any ways to save money.

Thanks!
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: space-time
Date: March 03, 2018 05:34PM
If my water were hot I would not bother to heat it.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: WHiiP
Date: March 03, 2018 05:45PM
Depends on what you have available in your area for energy credits.

When I purchased this one [smile.amazon.com] several years ago I wasable to take a $1,500.00 tax credit.

It has been outstanding. We also neededthe 80 gallon for a large tub fill.



Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: WHiiP
Date: March 03, 2018 05:47PM
Depends on what you have available in your area for energy credits.

When I purchased this one [smile.amazon.com] several years ago I wasable to take a $1,500.00 tax credit.

It has been outstanding. We also needed the 80 gallon for a large tub fill.



Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace
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Alright, a twofer!
Posted by: WHiiP
Date: March 03, 2018 05:49PM
RollingEyesSmiley5



Bill
Flagler Beach, FL 32136

Carpe Vino!

Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire.
— David Rains Wallace
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: March 03, 2018 06:17PM
Less than a month ago I paid $1700 for a 40 gallon, natural gas, energy star, with a power damper. It replaced a different model 40 gallon n, natural gas, energy star, with a power damper (the old damper wouldn't fit the new heater.). The price included installation and disposal of the old heater. The brand was what the plumber wanted to install. Came with a six year warranty and a $75 rebate from our gas supplier.

The old heater didn't leak, just that the control valve valve failed and a new valve cost $700+. The heater was near EOL as far as leaking so I just sprong for the whole thing.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2018 06:18PM by Speedy.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Bixby
Date: March 03, 2018 06:20PM
In 2014 I replaced the 15-year old natural gas water heater that was in the house when I bought the house. At the time it seemed like tankless only makes economic sense in certain circumstances, and since I'd have to make significant exhausting and feed changes to go tankless, I opted for another 'normal' water heater. As I understand it there are only a couple major manufacturers, which make most of the heaters. My plumber whom I trust told me what you pay for when you buy one with a longer warranty is not better build quality but basically insurance - there's really no physical difference. It's just the company insuring itself against replacement costs. And so I went with a 6-year-warranty Bradford White 50 gallon. So far it's just worked, no issues. I drain a couple gallons out of it every couple weeks to try to keep sediment to a minimum. YMMV.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Bixby
Date: March 03, 2018 06:22PM
Geez, I think I paid about $800 for fully installed with disposal.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: testcase
Date: March 03, 2018 06:57PM
Unless you have a VERY large family, stay away from 60 gallons. Go for a "Quick Recovery" 40 or 50-gallon model. You'll save a lot of fuel costs. old fogey smiley
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: March 03, 2018 07:02PM
I got an electric 40 gallon a few months ago for $299 plus $45 installation.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: space-time
Date: March 03, 2018 07:27PM
Quote
Dennis S
I got an electric 40 gallon a few months ago for $299 plus $45 installation.

$45 installation???????????????? you mean only $45? there is no typo?
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: March 03, 2018 08:37PM
The plumber is my nephew's best friend.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: davester
Date: March 03, 2018 08:38PM
Quote
Bixby
My plumber whom I trust told me what you pay for when you buy one with a longer warranty is not better build quality but basically insurance - there's really no physical difference. It's just the company insuring itself against replacement costs. And so I went with a 6-year-warranty Bradford White 50 gallon.

That's almost, but not quite, true. The difference between a 6-year and 12-year heater is that the 6-year has a single sacrificial anode rod and the 12-year has two of them. Each rod will last around 6 to 10 years. Once the rod has been consumed, the heater will self-destruct via corrosion in short order. To get around this it is fairly easy to install a second combo rod/dipstick into a 6-year heater. You can also replace the anode rods every 6 years (they unscrew out the top of the tank) though this can sometimes be tricky if the threads are corroded. Most people just wait until their water heater self-destructs and then buy a new one. It's much more economical to replace the rod every now and then.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2018 08:39PM by davester.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: space-time
Date: March 03, 2018 08:38PM
then please mention details like these... most other people would pay 4-5x more or even more.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: March 03, 2018 09:06PM
Take a look at a Takagi T-K4-OS-NG Tankless. That particular one is a direct vent, so it mounts on the outside of the house and there is no need for stainless steel exhaust vent lines. It will need the gas line to it, and a 120 electrical line. Plumbing can be 3/4" PVC.

We have had the earlier version since 2009, it has been great. I bought it from Plumbingsupply.com for about $700 and did most of the install myself. I did bring a licensed contractor in for the gas line, but that was only for homeowners insurance reasons.

While we didn't put one in, Takagi also has a remote that you can preset water temps into. You like it at 110 while the Mrs. prefers 104? you set it once and all you need to do is touch a button.

I doubt I'll ever go back to a tank heater.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: billb
Date: March 03, 2018 09:44PM
Quote
testcase
Unless you have a VERY large family, stay away from 60 gallons. Go for a "Quick Recovery" 40 or 50-gallon model. You'll save a lot of fuel costs. old fogey smiley


60 or 80 gallon comes in handy if you have a 100 gallon bathtub.


course, you could always spend the evening boiling water on the wood stove 8 quarts at a time.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: March 03, 2018 11:55PM
Quote
davester
Quote
Bixby
My plumber whom I trust told me what you pay for when you buy one with a longer warranty is not better build quality but basically insurance - there's really no physical difference. It's just the company insuring itself against replacement costs. And so I went with a 6-year-warranty Bradford White 50 gallon.

That's almost, but not quite, true. The difference between a 6-year and 12-year heater is that the 6-year has a single sacrificial anode rod and the 12-year has two of them. Each rod will last around 6 to 10 years. Once the rod has been consumed, the heater will self-destruct via corrosion in short order. To get around this it is fairly easy to install a second combo rod/dipstick into a 6-year heater. You can also replace the anode rods every 6 years (they unscrew out the top of the tank) though this can sometimes be tricky if the threads are corroded. Most people just wait until their water heater self-destructs and then buy a new one. It's much more economical to replace the rod every now and then.

You can also go with an electric 'anode' if you want your heater to last forever. About $500 extra.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 04, 2018 12:16AM
Quote
billb
Quote
testcase
Unless you have a VERY large family, stay away from 60 gallons. Go for a "Quick Recovery" 40 or 50-gallon model. You'll save a lot of fuel costs. old fogey smiley


60 or 80 gallon comes in handy if you have a 100 gallon bathtub.


course, you could always spend the evening boiling water on the wood stove 8 quarts at a time.

do you ALWAYS put 80 gallons of 130+ degree water in your tub? That's pretty darn hot.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Cary
Date: March 04, 2018 02:22AM
If I were going to spend $1500+ on a water heater, it would be tankless, a la Ombligo’s recommendation. Unlimited hot water, and overall lower energy costs - you’re not paying to keep water hot all the time.

I, however, didn’t have the dollars for that when I replaced my heater a couple of years ago, so I found a new in box 50 gal NG heater on Craigslist that someone bought but didn’t use for $300. Installed myself. Has been working great.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: March 04, 2018 06:47AM
If you have hard water, you may want to rethink a tankless heater. They tend to get plugged up.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: 3d
Date: March 04, 2018 08:40AM
My in-laws have an old hot water heater with a pilot light. We have a new energy-efficient water heater. Guess who had nice hot water in the last major power outage?

If I had to choose again. I would go with an older model water heater with pilot light. The little bit of comfort with taking a hot shower in the misery of a power outage is worth it to me.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: billb
Date: March 04, 2018 08:42AM
Quote
Racer X
Quote
billb
Quote
testcase
Unless you have a VERY large family, stay away from 60 gallons. Go for a "Quick Recovery" 40 or 50-gallon model. You'll save a lot of fuel costs. old fogey smiley


60 or 80 gallon comes in handy if you have a 100 gallon bathtub.


course, you could always spend the evening boiling water on the wood stove 8 quarts at a time.

do you ALWAYS put 80 gallons of 130+ degree water in your tub? That's pretty darn hot.

do you ever put 30 gallons of a 40 gallon tank in a 100 gallon tub ?
in a house of teenage girls ?



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
[soundcloud.com]




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2018 08:43AM by billb.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: March 04, 2018 08:57AM

Lowes and Amazon just under a grand.

Shower while doing laundry and never run out. This is the larger of two sizes.

This is my second one. My first one was a Bosch. I lost a neutral to my house last summer and it took out a lot of stuff including the hot water heater. It was 12 years old. Parts were not available.

This is the next generation for sure.
Another hundred for vent kit. One hole for double plastic pipe that sucks in the outer part and vents the hot out the middle.

My old one had a separate inlet and the outlet vent was double walled stainless pipe. They have come a long way since I got into this.

You said GAS.

I would never suggest an electric one.

I have a couple of Portable power inverters for the power outage thing. This take little AC drain. Been there done that.
Whole house back up standby gen now.




Staunton, Virginia



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2018 09:01AM by Bernie.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: space-time
Date: March 04, 2018 09:28AM
Quote
3d
My in-laws have an old hot water heater with a pilot light. We have a new energy-efficient water heater. Guess who had nice hot water in the last major power outage?

If I had to choose again. I would go with an older model water heater with pilot light. The little bit of comfort with taking a hot shower in the misery of a power outage is worth it to me.

can you hook up the water heater to a USP during outage? just to light up that flame and get it going.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: bobinmurphy
Date: March 04, 2018 01:25PM
Quote
Bixby
In 2014 I replaced the 15-year old natural gas water heater that was in the house when I bought the house. At the time it seemed like tankless only makes economic sense in certain circumstances, and since I'd have to make significant exhausting and feed changes to go tankless, I opted for another 'normal' water heater. As I understand it there are only a couple major manufacturers, which make most of the heaters. My plumber whom I trust told me what you pay for when you buy one with a longer warranty is not better build quality but basically insurance - there's really no physical difference. It's just the company insuring itself against replacement costs. And so I went with a 6-year-warranty Bradford White 50 gallon. So far it's just worked, no issues. I drain a couple gallons out of it every couple weeks to try to keep sediment to a minimum. YMMV.

Tankless gas water heaters do have specs that indicate you need a larger than normal gas supply, and this is usually what stops people from putting them into homes as replacements for older gas water heaters. I went thru this dance myself and finally gave up on the tankless and went with a Rheem from Home Depot. The warranty on it is fantastic as is the company. The control unit on mine went out not long after I installed it and I called Rheem. They told me my unit wasn't registered for warranty, then did it for me over the phone. Then they told me since it was under warranty they'd send me a new control unit overnight and even dispatch an installer to put it in for me if I wanted.

Now, back to tankless. I've since talked to a number of people who had tankless units installed without bothering to upgrade their gas supply lines. Not a single one of them told me of any problems. In fact, all were extremely happy with the tankless. If I ever have to replace my Rheem again, I'm going tankless.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: March 04, 2018 02:32PM
I have a 1/2" gas line feeding my heater with 3/4" waterlines. (the other line is also a 3/4" PVC that has a 120v electric run to the heater and then on out to my shed.

The fumes vent from the slots at the top.





“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Bo
Date: March 05, 2018 12:15AM
Quote
Ombligo
I have a 1/2" gas line feeding my heater with 3/4" waterlines. (the other line is also a 3/4" PVC that has a 120v electric run to the heater and then on out to my shed.

The fumes vent from the slots at the top.

Hey Ombligo, this is very intriguing to me. Do I have the diagram more or less correct below?

Couple of questions:
This is outside as you said before...is it fully exposed to the elements or in a covered area?
Are you in a colder climate?
Does it need a dedicated circuit?
Any idea if the water lines can be Pex?
Is it loud at all?

Currently have a standard water heater in a closet. Would love to regain that space. Very modest 2bd/1ba house with exterior wall that is within 10-15' of the kitchen sink, bathtub and vanity. Also right next to our service panel, gas line and water line.

Last time I looked into this was a while back and hadn't realized the existence of outdoor units. This might be so much easier than I had ever thought.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2018 12:31AM by Bo.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: March 05, 2018 06:58AM





Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Bo
Date: March 05, 2018 11:05AM
Thanks Bernie that's pretty simple!

Is that fully code compliant? Just did some cursory searches and only came up with pex needing to be 18" or more downstream of a conventionall water heater. Nothing about tankless.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: March 05, 2018 01:07PM
No such code here but not a problem. My tub /Shower set up is a hybrid for rigidity and confidence reasons.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: March 05, 2018 02:32PM
I have a tankless water heater on my Chevy Volt. It puts out a pretty good amount of heat even when it is 16°F out (15°F and below the engine runs to provide heat). However, it does use a lot of juice. I don't know what type of hot water (coolant) line is used...



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Hot water heater-suggestions?
Posted by: sunfalcon
Date: March 06, 2018 09:26PM
I just said goodbye to a 40 gal water heater from 1988 (that came with a 5 year warranty!). It was still working fine, but since I was having my whole furnace and A/C replaced, I figure might as well do that too. Upgraded to a 50 gal that was recommended by the guy doing my HVAC. He says no way will it last 30 years...hopefully 10! Whole HVAC system and water heater replaced for $5900!
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