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Where are all the college men?
Posted by: archipirata
Date: July 04, 2018 08:27AM
I often have a skewed ratio of male to female in my classes (always more female) and I know our university demographic is around 56% female to 44% male but I just looked at the enrollment for my photoshop course this fall and I have 19 female and 1 male.

This is a mandatory course in our Visual Communication program for those in 4 different tracks; commercial photo, photo J, page layout and multi-media. I just find the disparity in genders interesting and I wonder what the cause is.



Athens, OH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2018 10:36AM by archipirata.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: WHiiP
Date: July 04, 2018 08:32AM
Make that ratio known to the male population of the college and I bet it changes. . .



Bill
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: billb
Date: July 04, 2018 08:35AM
maybe 8 of them used to be men



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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Will Collier
Date: July 04, 2018 09:42AM
You're not an outlier. The numbers for general college enrollment have been swinging that way for the last 20-30 years now.

Then again, go sign up for an engineering class and you'll see it flip the other direction...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2018 01:38PM by Will Collier.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Rolando
Date: July 04, 2018 09:56AM
THe National Ratio of Men to Women is about 45-55. I would bet it gets more skewed in the upper levels!

[www.theatlantic.com]

I would bet that MBA would be the exception to this.



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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Yoyodyne ArtWorks
Date: July 04, 2018 10:17AM
The sooner women take over the world, the better...



Once we place nonhuman animals outside our sphere of moral consideration
and treat them as things we use to satisfy our own desires,
the outcome is predictable.
- Peter Singer
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 04, 2018 10:32AM
....it is college.....there are only boys there.......



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: J Marston
Date: July 04, 2018 10:32AM
Will Collier is exactly right: the 55:45 ratio has existed sine the late '90s. It's more skewed at some institutions (liberal arts colleges), less at others. Same ratio in law schools. Business schools are male-dominated (30:70); vet schools are female dominated (75:25).

No one that I know of has a satisfactory answer to why young men are not going to college.

Engineering schools are a special case (10:90): sexism in engineering is legendary. (And it's not because women can't do the math: slightly over 40% of math majors these days are female.)
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: July 04, 2018 11:48AM
20 years ago when I graduated from college there were 50 students that started in our program in 1993. 2 were women. When I graduated in 1998, only 1 of the women remained, however, that was the same attrition rate as the males, of whom, a full 50% dropped out or changed degrees before graduation. The one woman who graduated with us was a non-traditional student. She was a mother of 3 who was returned to college mid-life. We adopted her as a fill-in Mom. She made us cookies and we helped her get up to speed quickly on computer, math and physics skills that she'd either forgotten from high school or never was exposed to in high school. I asked her why she chose our degree program (Plastic Engineering Technology) and she said that it had a 100% job placement rate at graduation and had the highest starting salary of all BS degrees offered by Penn State. It also came bundled with an AS degree in Mechanical Engineering Technology. The down side was that you had to carry between 17-20 credits/semester to graduate. If she was going to go through hell to get a degree it had better be one hell of a degree.



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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: testcase
Date: July 04, 2018 12:16PM
Quote
billb
maybe 8 of them used to be men


smiley-laughing001
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: bfd
Date: July 04, 2018 12:33PM
High W/M ratios are not unusual in classes for prospective elementary teachers either. In two statistics sections last semester, one had 39 women - no men, and the other one had 38 women - 5 men…
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Don C
Date: July 04, 2018 12:44PM
Demographer at the University of Louisville talked about the Bubba Factor being a problem in Kentucky where an awful lot of guys were living off the woman in their lives, mother or GF. Why work if someone will take care of you?

These guys tended to be lower economic status but that seemed to be just fine with them.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 04, 2018 12:49PM
I used to be a tenured professor at a US land grant university. If you are truly neutral in admissions, we would have been 60/40 W/M based on GPA and ACT/SAT scores. Women are just better at high school.

If you ignore the freshman year, it was closer to 55/45.

Bottom line: to even be at the current levels, universities are doing a form of affirmative action for men.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 04, 2018 12:54PM
Make that ratio known to the male population of the college and I bet it changes. . .

LOL!




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must suffer with him.

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except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Grumpyguy
Date: July 04, 2018 12:59PM
An amazing percentage of college debt is being carried by women. Maybe men are being more practical and entering the trades.

College ain't what it used to be and considering the anti-male bent of many of our finer institutions of learning, why go to where you are aren't wanted?



Bryan
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: lost in space
Date: July 04, 2018 12:59PM
Same thing at the university where I worked before retiring. I was in Foreign Languages, which was a requirement for almost all the undergrad degrees, so I saw a pretty good cross-section of the student population, with the possible exception of high-acheiving women who may have met the foreign language requirement in high school. The most surprising imbalance was the predominance of women in students from the middle east. Those women will rule that part of the world in another generation or so, methinks.



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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: GGD
Date: July 04, 2018 12:59PM
Quote
ztirffritz
I asked her why she chose our degree program (Plastic Engineering Technology) and she said...

[youtu.be]
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 04, 2018 01:05PM
Quote
Grumpyguy
An amazing percentage of college debt is being carried by women.

Yes, that's an interesting consequence of the current imbalance.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 04, 2018 01:35PM
Quote
sekker
Quote
Grumpyguy
An amazing percentage of college debt is being carried by women.

Yes, that's an interesting consequence of the current imbalance.

It is also a consequence of many of the jobs women end up in paying less, so they do not pay it off as fast.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Winston
Date: July 04, 2018 02:07PM
My impression was that the national average for undergraduate programs was 60:40 female:male, not 55:45. When my daughters went to college my single biggest concern was that they not be at a school with skewed female/male ratio. The college I went to was 33:67 in my class, which I found made for odd social circumstances (2 men for every woman on campus). When the ratio becomes overwhelmingly toward women, my feeling is that the social situation gets extremely difficult for the girls. It's very hard to get away from a "hook up" culture.

One daughter went to a school that was 50:50, and the other had 53:47 in her class (I think classes after hers were a bit more skewed).

My son's at a large state school, and it's 60:40. Admission to the school is pretty much on grades, athletes excepted.


A note on "college debt": in most cases, those with large "college debt" actually have both undergraduate and graduate school debt. Undergraduate debt is typically much smaller.

[lendedu.com]
- $16,723 the average student loan debt per graduate from the Class of 2016
- $57,600 the average student loan debt per graduate student

Note that the average car sold in the U.S. cost $31,400 in the first quarter of 2017.
[www.cars.com]

The big numbers for individual student debt come mostly from people who get law or medical degrees.


Good luck.

- Winston



------------------------
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: August West
Date: July 04, 2018 02:21PM
Quote

College ain't what it used to be and considering the anti-male bent of many of our finer institutions of learning, why go to where you are aren't wanted?

Yes, it's amazing the discrimination and prejudice that males, particularly the overly-victimized white, christian variety, face in the US, isn't it!



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Grumpyguy
Date: July 04, 2018 03:29PM
The suspension of due process in she said/he said sexual assault cases don't bother you at all? Toxic masculinity? Stow your white privilege? Your snarky comeback. Anti-Christian professors. And on and on. If I'm a male, I'd go elsewhere as well. But yeah, there's no reason why the numbers are like they are.RollingEyesSmiley5

Quote
August West
Quote

College ain't what it used to be and considering the anti-male bent of many of our finer institutions of learning, why go to where you are aren't wanted?

Yes, it's amazing the discrimination and prejudice that males, particularly the overly-victimized white, christian variety, face in the US, isn't it!



Bryan
______________________________________________________
Mac Mini 2.6 GHz, 16 GB ram High Sierra
MacBook Pro (Early 2008 model) 2.4 GHz, 4 GB ram, 200 GB hard drive/ Mac OS 10.9.1 and XP SP3
iPhone 7 iOS 11
Location: Cincinnati
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 04, 2018 03:58PM
.....where have all the cowboys gone......??



where.....have.....all the cowboys.....gone.....?!



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2018 03:59PM by NewtonMP2100.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 04, 2018 04:35PM
Quote
Grumpyguy
The suspension of due process in she said/he said sexual assault cases don't bother you at all? Toxic masculinity? Stow your white privilege? Your snarky comeback. Anti-Christian professors. And on and on. If I'm a male, I'd go elsewhere as well. But yeah, there's no reason why the numbers are like they are.RollingEyesSmiley5

Quote
August West
Quote

College ain't what it used to be and considering the anti-male bent of many of our finer institutions of learning, why go to where you are aren't wanted?

Yes, it's amazing the discrimination and prejudice that males, particularly the overly-victimized white, christian variety, face in the US, isn't it!

Actually it goes for the guys a lot more often than you hear about, the ones that get blasted over regular and social media about the injustice to the male are much less common than they want you to think. There are also many more schools still stuck in the practices of earlier decades, there the women who file a complaint have a very high burden of proof before they take the "she said" side of the story.

As for "due process", all students who attend colleges and universities agree to follow the schools' codes of conduct as part of their acceptance and enrollment. They are very thorough and go into detail on various disciplinary issues and how they will be handled. And it is usually included that at the school's discretion some offenses will be handled either internally as a disciplinary issue or referred to law enforcement.

The complaint of many women over the years has been that most schools were very lenient on accused males in these internal hearings, many schools still are, especially if one of their male athletes is involved. As it is the worst that can happen is that the guy is dismissed from the school, no conviction or sex offender status on their record. Some women have also been dismissed if the school believed they had brought false charges.

So they are in most cases getting the due process they agreed to, just complaining when they aren't preferentially treated like their father, uncles, and other older males in their life were treated years before.

P.S. I have heard of a number of cases where guys refused the internal disciplinary process, so the schools just turned them over to law enforcement where they got that "due process" you are complaining about. Most of them ended up with actual criminal records and enrollment on the sex offender registries.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: August West
Date: July 04, 2018 07:15PM
Quote

But yeah, there's no reason why the numbers are like they are.

Clearly, your data analysis is insurmountable.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Ammo
Date: July 04, 2018 07:26PM
Quote
lost in space
Same thing at the university where I worked before retiring. I was in Foreign Languages, which was a requirement for almost all the undergrad degrees, so I saw a pretty good cross-section of the student population, with the possible exception of high-acheiving women who may have met the foreign language requirement in high school. The most surprising imbalance was the predominance of women in students from the middle east. Those women will rule that part of the world in another generation or so, methinks.

Good!



Inside every old person is a young person saying "what happened?"

“Love is the motive, but justice is the instrument.” - Reinhold Niebuhr

“The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.” George Orwell
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: what4
Date: July 05, 2018 07:22AM
There is an even higher proportion of women students at historically black universities.

So much that students regularly publish articles wondering how educated women will find educated husbands.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: wowzer
Date: July 05, 2018 01:53PM
Don’t forget that there are more boys born than girls, so this is bigger than is stated.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]



Of course, some would say the bias in the educational system favors girls. Of course there are always individual exceptions, but language and writing scores are skewed towards woman. Visual and spatial skills tend to favor men. Given recent attempts at devaluing math scores in standardized exams and emphasis on math word problems probably compounds the bias.



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 05, 2018 04:19PM
Quote
Grumpyguy
An amazing percentage of college debt is being carried by women. Maybe men are being more practical and entering the trades.

College ain't what it used to be and considering the anti-male bent of many of our finer institutions of learning, why go to where you are aren't wanted?

In certain areas, the trades are just begging for people, and you don't have a 6 figure loan when you enter the work force.

The going rate for journeymen electrician in Seattle is $50 an hour. Last fall it was $43. Throw in OT and your take-home is about 90K a year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2018 04:21PM by Racer X.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 05, 2018 08:47PM
Quote
Racer X
Quote
Grumpyguy
An amazing percentage of college debt is being carried by women. Maybe men are being more practical and entering the trades.

College ain't what it used to be and considering the anti-male bent of many of our finer institutions of learning, why go to where you are aren't wanted?

In certain areas, the trades are just begging for people, and you don't have a 6 figure loan when you enter the work force.

The going rate for journeymen electrician in Seattle is $50 an hour. Last fall it was $43. Throw in OT and your take-home is about 90K a year.

It's ridiculous. There are entire sectors with job openings and all of the vocational training programs got closed down in our local public school system. My kids have friends with 99%ile ACTs whose college degrees does not give them ANY profession.
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Re: Where are all the college men?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 06, 2018 12:45AM
My partner's older brother is a master welder who specializes in demo work. A true artist with a plasma cutter. Always has a job lined up long before the current contract/job is over.

When his body can't take that anymore, he can teach at the union hall for another decade or so if he chooses. That's what their dad did. Some of the apprentice welders/steamfitters he taught a lifetime ago are now the masters instructing at the hall.
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