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I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Grumpyguy
Date: July 06, 2018 04:39PM
Any good deal on a new or refurbed Mac Mini? My trusty 2010 model is getting long in the tooth.

Also, can you still run two monitors off of the new Mac Minis? And how would you do so? Thanks!



Bryan
______________________________________________________
Mac Mini 2.6 GHz, 16 GB ram High Sierra
MacBook Pro (Early 2008 model) 2.4 GHz, 4 GB ram, 200 GB hard drive/ Mac OS 10.9.1 and XP SP3
iPhone 7 iOS 11
Location: Cincinnati
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: hal
Date: July 06, 2018 04:47PM
There are no 'good' deals on current mac minis. They still have the exact same price they did 4 years ago when they debuted. But get one with a PCI SSD or a fusion drive and it will tear that 2010 model to pieces. Of course you can run two monitors from a 2014 model - you got two TB2 ports and an HDMI port. With adapters you can use any monitor made in the last 20 years except the oddball apple connectors.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: The Grim Ninja
Date: July 06, 2018 05:36PM
Quote
hal
There are no current mac minis.

Fixed that for ya.

4 years since Apple released an update. 4 YEARS. And that was largely considered a major downgrade in performance.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: 3d
Date: July 06, 2018 05:44PM
I bought my 2.6GHz Mac Mini four years ago n 2014.

Checked the Apple store just now...
IT'S THE SAME DANG MACHINE FOR SALE NOW. Ughhhh!

[www.apple.com]
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Grumpyguy
Date: July 06, 2018 05:55PM
Well dang, that doesn't seem like a good buy then. Will have to keep my powder dry then.



Bryan
______________________________________________________
Mac Mini 2.6 GHz, 16 GB ram High Sierra
MacBook Pro (Early 2008 model) 2.4 GHz, 4 GB ram, 200 GB hard drive/ Mac OS 10.9.1 and XP SP3
iPhone 7 iOS 11
Location: Cincinnati
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 06, 2018 05:57PM
We’ve been drowned by the needs of the average consumer.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: 3d
Date: July 06, 2018 06:05PM
Quote
Grumpyguy
Well dang, that doesn't seem like a good buy then. Will have to keep my powder dry then.

I don't want to make excuses for Apple but in their defense a MacMini is pretty much a processor and HD in an enclosure. There's no monitor, keyboard, battery life or form factor to update/improve. What's an updated MacMini? A bump in the speed? Most of the MacBooks and iMacs use the same Intel i5 processor. (don't quote me on that)
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 06, 2018 06:06PM
Does it have an SSD?
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 06, 2018 06:45PM
We’ve been drowned by the needs of the average consumer.

Boom.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* Sigs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: jdc
Date: July 06, 2018 06:48PM
budget? you already have 2 monitors? that arent really old?



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: July 06, 2018 09:01PM
Quote
3d
Quote
Grumpyguy
Well dang, that doesn't seem like a good buy then. Will have to keep my powder dry then.

I don't want to make excuses for Apple but in their defense a MacMini is pretty much a processor and HD in an enclosure. There's no monitor, keyboard, battery life or form factor to update/improve. What's an updated MacMini? A bump in the speed? Most of the MacBooks and iMacs use the same Intel i5 processor. (don't quote me on that)

Current gen (Coffee Lake) chips have much faster integrated graphics and the current Mini-class parts are all quad core (even the Core i3!), no more of this dual core BS.

The 2014 Mini is beyond lame.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: July 06, 2018 09:10PM
Have a look at the specs of the past 4 generations of Intel NUC and see what Apple should have been doing with the Mini. If *Intel* can somehow figure out how to make a decent small computer and update it every year, perhaps Apple could do the same.

Apple is stuck at the Haswell generation of chips in the Mini. Following that were:

Broadwell (2015, 20% more Gfx power, higher speed from smaller process node)
Skylake (2016, ~30% more Gfx power from 64MB dedicated VRAM/L4 cache)
Kaby Lake (2017, ~30% more CPU power from higher CPU speeds from reduced power draw)
Coffee Lake (2018, >50% increase in CPU power from double the CPU cores)
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 06, 2018 10:45PM
The top Coffee Lake based mini is a really nice system. Intel did a minor face plant when adding Radeon graphics but not enabling all the functions. It turned to be comparable to a barebones MBP for about $900.



In tha 360. [url=Zee Maps Now requires a subscription/payment to work]MRF User Map[/url]
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: 3d
Date: July 07, 2018 07:02AM
Quote
Lew Zealand
Quote
3d
Quote
Grumpyguy
Well dang, that doesn't seem like a good buy then. Will have to keep my powder dry then.

I don't want to make excuses for Apple but in their defense a MacMini is pretty much a processor and HD in an enclosure. There's no monitor, keyboard, battery life or form factor to update/improve. What's an updated MacMini? A bump in the speed? Most of the MacBooks and iMacs use the same Intel i5 processor. (don't quote me on that)

Current gen (Coffee Lake) chips have much faster integrated graphics and the current Mini-class parts are all quad core (even the Core i3!), no more of this dual core BS.

The 2014 Mini is beyond lame.

Current Macbooks are faster than a current MacMini desktop. It's fine for web browsing, email, shopping and Youtube. It noticeably and irritatingly struggles with iTunes, Photos, and Adobe CC apps. When they do update the MacMini, I'll be first in line to purchase.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 07, 2018 10:56AM
I remember being in this same boat when I needed to replace my Thunderbolt Display, which had been damaged during an electrical storm. I wanted another Thunderbolt Display but, damn, they were asking the same price as I had paid for the original 4 or 5 (?) years prior. That was just crazy talk.

If you want to upgrade its various components, I'd visit our sponsor and their excellent MyUpgrades section.

If you want to move along, I'd visit our sponsor and their excellent Used Mac Lot. Not a lot of minis there at the moment -- maybe just one -- but it's the 2012 model. You can configure it to your needs.

Or you could get what Apple didn't call the Mac mini but more or less was the upgraded Mac mini. Wink wink.



same as it ever was
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 07, 2018 11:55AM
Gave up on waiting and purchased a 2.6GHz hard-drive refurb mini ($549) to replace my 2009 this year. Popped a SSD in there (which is no easy task anymore). It's workable with my 2 displays. Put a Belkin TB dock on the 2d TB port (bagged it for $100) and I've got plenty of ports. Even have FireWire.

Interesting note: It came with High Sierra and took about 10 minutes just to boot to the initial setup screen off of the 5400rpm hard drive. Crazy that Apple still sells any Macs with hard drives when their OS is so poorly optimized.

...I also have a quad i7 2012 mini server. Haven't gotten around to benching them to see which is faster. The 2012 "feels" faster, but I never installed HS on that one since it's performing critical tasks and HS is such a @#$%& show.



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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Grumpyguy
Date: July 07, 2018 12:41PM
thanks for all the suggestions and advice!



Bryan
______________________________________________________
Mac Mini 2.6 GHz, 16 GB ram High Sierra
MacBook Pro (Early 2008 model) 2.4 GHz, 4 GB ram, 200 GB hard drive/ Mac OS 10.9.1 and XP SP3
iPhone 7 iOS 11
Location: Cincinnati
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: billb
Date: July 07, 2018 12:59PM
A few months before the 2014 mini came out Best Buy had the minimum config 2012 on sale , like they do the minimum config MBA . That’s when I picked up my 2012 mini. I haven’t seen any on sale yet anywhere and yet it would seem that be way past due time.



The Phorum Wall keeps us safe from illegal characters and words
The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is the knowledge of one's own ignorance. -Benjamin Franklin
BOYCOTT YOPLAIT [www.noyoplait.com]
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 07, 2018 03:41PM
If Apple ever upgrades the mini, I'd want to see >16G of memory, and much better video.

I've got 16G of memory and I often get slowdowns (and a lot of pageants) with my 2010 i7 mini. I've yet to utilized the i7 at or beyond what an i5 might do, but it seemed like the thing to get, at the time.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* Sigs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: July 07, 2018 04:17PM
If Apple ever decides to upgrade the mini it'll never get anything more than Intel integrated video. That is better now (2017 is about 70% faster than 2014- 2018 should get a good bump, too) but still not comparable to standalone cards which have made similar gains.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2018 04:22PM by Lew Zealand.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: sekker
Date: July 07, 2018 04:42PM
At this point, there’s no new Mac mini with intel chips.

I just replaced the ssd in an early 2009 Mac mini. Even has 8GB RAM and discrete graphics.

For many modern users, that essentially 10 year old machine is more than enough. Would be more than enough for almost all Mac users at my work.

Runs 10.11 fine.

Yes, a decade. That’s why we have not seen any new Mac mini’s.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2018 04:43PM by sekker.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 07, 2018 05:16PM
but still not comparable to standalone cards which have made similar gains.

Oh, I have no illusions of having a separate, dedicated video chipset in a mini.

I would like Apple to include something less than a couple years old though. But since I don't know much about video, I still may be asking for too much— the ability to easily drive two large monitors ~30-32", at 4K/60fps.

And handle HDR, though that may be the OS and not the chips. Or both.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* Sigs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 08, 2018 12:10AM
Someone REALLY should make a Mac mini knock-off that Hackintoshes easily, but has current and decent components.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 08, 2018 01:15AM
Quote
Racer X
Someone REALLY should make a Mac mini knock-off that Hackintoshes easily, but has current and decent components.

Intel NUC.

But like nearly all hackintoshable PCs, the native BT and WiFi don't work, which is annoying, considering how much money the high-end costs.



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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: July 08, 2018 09:49AM
If you buy the high end NUCs (the $600-1000 Hades canyon and Skull canyon ones), you're buying the wrong machine. Those are for small form factor gaming and you're always better off rolling your own regular gaming PC for the same $, which I've done twice in the past year.

The regular 4x4" square NUCs ($230-450) are the actual Mini equivalent and Hackintosh pretty easily as there is no variability in hardware. You already know what drivers you need and what doesn't work (WiFi & BT which can be added cheap and easy with USB parts).

My biggest problem with Hacking NUCs recently is that the Skylake and Kaby Lake ones don't re-establish a video link with some monitors dependably if you switch inputs on that monitor. My monitor is also used by a 2012 Mini and when I switched back to the Skylake NUCintosh, I'd have to reboot it to re-establish the video link. Obviously not a viable soution. My Broadwell NUCs do not have this problem and really are perfect NUCintoshes. Kaby Lake is reported to have the same video problem as Skylake, I never even tried with mine.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 08, 2018 10:20AM
Quote
Lew Zealand
If you buy the high end NUCs (the $600-1000 Hades canyon and Skull canyon ones), you're buying the wrong machine. Those are for small form factor gaming and you're always better off rolling your own regular gaming PC for the same $, which I've done twice in the past year.

The GPU acceleration would be helpful for graphic design and video-work.

Not everyone doing design work wants a one-thing-breaks-and-it's-toast all-in-one iMac and not everyone doing video has the cash (or cooling - they kick out heat like an oven) for an iMac Pro.



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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 08, 2018 12:18PM
Quote
RAMd®d
If Apple ever upgrades the mini, I'd want to see >16G of memory, and much better video.

I've got 16G of memory and I often get slowdowns (and a lot of pageants) with my 2010 i7 mini. I've yet to utilized the i7 at or beyond what an i5 might do, but it seemed like the thing to get, at the time.

My litmus test for my next capital outlay for a MacBook is an option for at least 32GB of RAM.

I've got a handful of specialized apps in use and slowdowns abound. Then again, it's a 2013 MBP, so that may contribute to that a bit. Still and all, getting tired of looking at envy at a number of other manufacturers offering more than 16GB of RAM in their laptop offerings.

(And my son -- who recently went from an iMac (for sale soon! smiling smiley ) to a Dell Inspiron -- keeps calling me to the dark side.) (e.g., Asus VivoBook, if just for the specs)



same as it ever was



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2018 12:21PM by Zoidberg.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: July 08, 2018 03:29PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lew Zealand
If you buy the high end NUCs (the $600-1000 Hades canyon and Skull canyon ones), you're buying the wrong machine. Those are for small form factor gaming and you're always better off rolling your own regular gaming PC for the same $, which I've done twice in the past year.

The GPU acceleration would be helpful for graphic design and video-work.

Not everyone doing design work wants a one-thing-breaks-and-it's-toast all-in-one iMac and not everyone doing video has the cash (or cooling - they kick out heat like an oven) for an iMac Pro.

My point was more that if you roll your own machine (whether for gaming or for Hackintoshing), you can select parts all of which *will* work for your uses and you'll pay less than a machine which someone else built.

I get that it would be *really* nice to buy a reasonably small pre-built desktop which still had a pretty good video card (eg, the Hades Canyon NUCs) but if you're going to Hack it, there simply will be a couple of parts with no Mac drivers.

From my perspective, I've been using Minis and NUCs as my main machines for about 10 years now and I've come to realize that proper, even a little overkill, cooling is very important to both getting the full performance you're paid for and the longevity of your system. Apple did this with the CheezGrater MacPro and I recently built a PC which is designed this way. Pushed hard in gaming the CPU tops out at 55C and the GPU at 66C in a hot room. Handbrake h.265 conversion the CPU sometimes touches 60C. And it's quiet.

But you need space for that cooling and that's my concern with the high end NUCs. They have a 65W or 100W CPU+GPU in an admirably small case with decent cooling according to the reviews. But not enough to stop some thermal CPU or GPU throttling and that bugs me a bit.

I'm willing to make that trade off with the very small regular NUCs as they are inexpensive ($230-450, no RAM or drive) and not intended to compete at mid-levels though even those are actually overkill for most office and home computing. But at $700-900 before RAM and drive for the high end NUCs, that opens up many more options whose cooling and heat management will not be so constraining.
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Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 08, 2018 03:37PM
My litmus test for my next capital outlay for a MacBook is an option for at least 32GB of RAM.

THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout!

I'd probably only go 24G, at least for a time, but I'm so over 16G.

As to a laptop, the Lenovo Carbon is attractive. If it ran macOS and had >16G I'd truly be tempted.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* Sigs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: I really want a new Mac mini
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: July 08, 2018 11:30PM
Quote
RAMd®d
My litmus test for my next capital outlay for a MacBook is an option for at least 32GB of RAM.

THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout!

I'd probably only go 24G, at least for a time, but I'm so over 16G.

As to a laptop, the Lenovo Carbon is attractive. If it ran macOS and had >16G I'd truly be tempted.

The company I work for is more prone to buy me a new laptop if it is Windows-based. Since I do all the graphics and forms work/page layout, I get to write my own ticket, but they've all but said if it's a general Windows box, I can practically write my own ticket, because that's what they're comfortable with ordering. So I could conceivably get the Lenovo Carbon or the Asus I mentioned.

They can't understand why I'm still using a 5+ year old laptop and ask me why I'm waiting...



same as it ever was
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