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California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: December 06, 2018 05:20AM
(I'll start here, but realize this may get moved to the other side)

California will require solar panels on most new homes. Officials at a December 5th Building Standards Commission meeting have voted for the new code, providing the last bit of approval necessary for the policy to take effect. New homes, condos and low-rise apartments will need eco-friendly power generation on their rooftops from January 1st, 2020 onward. The only exclusions are for homes that are either blocked by taller objects (like trees and tall buildings) or don't have room for panels.

Under the new requirements, builders must take one of two steps: make individual homes available with solar panels, or build a shared solar-power system serving a group of homes. In the case of rooftop panels, they can either be owned outright and rolled into the home price, or made available for lease on a monthly basis. It is expected to add $8,000-$12,000 to the cost of a new home.

[www.nytimes.com]


I wonder if such a rule already exists for businesses, or if those were excluded from this rule on purpose?



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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: Mr645
Date: December 06, 2018 06:38AM
Since homes in California are already such a bargain.................
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: Thrift Store Scott
Date: December 06, 2018 07:36AM
I'm surprised PG&E didn't quietly kill this before it ever got put up for a vote.

Like Ombligo, I also wonder why businesses weren't included since they'd see a much faster return on the extra investment, unless of course they were already covered by a similar requirement. I'm almost sure I've seen photos of fast food restaurants in LA (probably In&Out… why would a tourist take a photo of themselves in front of an El Pollo Loco, a Carl's Jr, or a Jack In The Box?) with what appeared to be an array of solar cells on the roof, but those might be voluntary.



Lie to me if you must, but don't lie to me and insult my intelligence in the same sentence.
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 06, 2018 07:53AM
Quote
Thrift Store Scott
I'm surprised PG&E didn't quietly kill this before it ever got put up for a vote.

No problem. They’ll just increase their rates to ensure their profits don’t decline; “We MUST in order to cover all the added costs of interfacing our existing infrastructure with all these new, government-mandated solar installations.”
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 06, 2018 08:25AM
>>For residential homeowners, based on a 30-year mortgage, the Energy Commission estimates that the standards will add about $40 to an average monthly payment, but save consumers $80 on monthly heating, cooling and lighting bills.

Not bad!



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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: davester
Date: December 06, 2018 09:44AM
Pretty much a no-brainer since they'll pay for themselves in short order.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: billb
Date: December 06, 2018 10:18AM
Quote

“California has this tradition of astonishingly bad decisions,” said McCullough, the energy consultant. “They build and charge the ratepayers. There’s nothing dishonest about it. There’s nothing complicated. It’s just bad planning.”

[www.latimes.com]



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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: Acer
Date: December 06, 2018 11:00AM
Sometimes you just got to take a step, you know. I've got an entire 401K funded on the premise that a little pain today will pay off in the future. Kitchen table economics.
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: December 06, 2018 11:24AM
PG&E wanted to add an additional "fee" for homeowners using solar. In addition to wanting people to be legally unable to opt-out of the grid, even if they are 100% grid independent.
Nor do they want to pay people for "surplus" generation. As of now, they have to... but they've been fighting that for a decade.



Paul F.
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----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 06, 2018 11:48AM
Quote
davester
Pretty much a no-brainer since they'll pay for themselves in short order.

There are some locations where, due to local weather and geography, there would not be "short order" cost recuperation*.


*Unless the efficiency of the solar panels available increases sufficiently.
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: December 06, 2018 12:24PM
My cousin lives in AZ and when they built their house they looked into solar. But they weren't able to b/c unless you can be 100% grid independent the local utility royally screws you over for the little slice of energy you use to make up the deficit. So much so that having solar would have cost them more than not having it. Pretty sad.




__________________________________
Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: December 06, 2018 12:27PM
I for one, LOVE solar. We went live August 9,2017 and it is working great.
Our house is total electric, built in '72, and I should never have a conventional electric bill again!
You don't have to, but we sized the solar array to cover 100% of anticipated needs.
The way it is working me, summer in Western Mass I generate about 3 times my needs, building credits up, then in the winter I make about a third, still negating any charges. Yes, I'm paying a loan for the solar, with is $420 a month, but consider the electric budget plan was $180. That is a doable increase. The loan will be paid off in 4 years or less if lucky, then no loan, no electric bill.

In the right situation, solar is wonderful.

Dave



Welcome to Dave's BBQ!

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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: davester
Date: December 06, 2018 12:41PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
davester
Pretty much a no-brainer since they'll pay for themselves in short order.

There are some locations where, due to local weather and geography, there would not be "short order" cost recuperation*.

That's not true for California which has sufficient insolation throughout the state. The rule waives the requirement where solar would be shaded by buildings, trees, etc.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: testcase
Date: December 06, 2018 02:55PM
Quote
Mr645
Since homes in California are already such a bargain.................


Solar has been being "developed" for what, 40+ years now and, the industry still seems to be in its' infancy. I look at this as more "Big Brother" knows what's best for everybody (but exempts itself from many of the rules it wants us peons to live by). No wonder we're broke..... angry villagers smiley

Some municipalities used the "carrot" approach. Offer people buying and / or tax incentives so that people would WANT to get solar, do so as a reasoned choice THEY are making.
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 06, 2018 03:06PM
Quote
bazookaman
My cousin lives in AZ and when they built their house they looked into solar. But they weren't able to b/c unless you can be 100% grid independent the local utility royally screws you over for the little slice of energy you use to make up the deficit. So much so that having solar would have cost them more than not having it. Pretty sad.

Xcel, the big utility in my area (but not my power provider) plans to be carbon-neutral by 2050.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: December 06, 2018 03:37PM
Quote
davester
The rule waives the requirement where solar would be shaded by buildings, trees, etc.

Haven't read the specs. Do the waivers allow for weather (insufficiently consistent sun exposure due to local weather) and geography (insufficiently consistent sun exposure due to hills/mountains)?
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: freeradical
Date: December 06, 2018 04:40PM
California is raping the little guy when it comes to electricity costs.

When the electrical crisis hit California, SMUD, my electric utility added a $2 surcharge. Temporary they said. Uh no, it has kept going up, and I believe it's now $22-24 per month. During non heating months, my entire PG&E gas bill is less than that.

Now they've come up with peak pricing during the summer for electricity from 5-8 pm. This is typically the only time I run the AC unless we're in a heat wave. What else should people quit doing during those hours? Cooking Dinner? Watching TV?

It's a just money grab...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2018 04:43PM by freeradical.
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Re: California to require solar on new homes
Posted by: davester
Date: December 07, 2018 02:51PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Do the waivers allow for weather (insufficiently consistent sun exposure due to local weather) and geography (insufficiently consistent sun exposure due to hills/mountains)?

Local weather sufficient to materially decrease insolation to make solar unproductive is a nonissue in California. I haven't delved into the regs but the articles describing it indicate a waiver for "high objects" that block panels. Solar installations are always preceded by a quantitative evaluation of shadowing (by high objects) to evaluate feasibility of the location for solar. It is immaterial whether the high object is a tree, house, mountain, whatever. It would be completely crazy for any solar contractor to put a system in without this. That's obviously the only available method for making such a determination so it would be a stretch to think that any other method would be used for waivers.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2018 02:52PM by davester.
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