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Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: March 06, 2019 10:42PM
I’ve been reading articles about the GM plant closing in Ohio and it got me wondering about the future. It seems that blue collar jobs with middle class wages and benefits don’t really exist anymore except for people who have already been in those jobs for many years. There is no growth in that sector and the future looks dim. If their job is cut there is almost no chance they will find another with the same pay, especially in the same area.

Is there any industry left where you can walk in with a high school diploma and make $20 an hour and 5 years later make $30 an hour with full benefits and pensions? I don’t think a lot of recent college graduates are making that kind of money. Teachers with Masters degrees don’t always make that much.

Food service and retail workers are being replaced with delivery, self checkouts, kiosks, and iPads at the tables. Those that are left don’t make much. I suppose delivery drivers will be in high demand and anyone else in the delivery chain.

I know in North Dakota and Texas you can work in the oil fields and make twice that, but it is temporary and no real benefits. Plus you have to sleep in a trailer in the middle of nowhere, can’t exactly have a house or a family there.

So what will happen in the next 10 to 20 years for these workers and the next generation of workers like them?



C(-)ris
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: March 06, 2019 10:48PM
All the auto plants will eventually move to the anti-union states or south of the border. Follow the money.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: davemchine
Date: March 06, 2019 11:39PM
Many professional jobs don’t make those kind of wages.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: bfd
Date: March 07, 2019 12:27AM
There will be a tiny super-class of very wealthy people who own the banks, police, government, and courts. The massive underclass will begin its revolt. It won't be pretty. Concessions will be made, but it'll only hold of the hordes for another decade or so.

The current level of nonsense simply can't be maintained without an iron fist in a velvet glove.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: jdc
Date: March 07, 2019 01:15AM
Is the "american dream" to graduate HS and then work in a factory?



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: March 07, 2019 01:34AM
Yes, at least as how you define it.



It is what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2019 01:34AM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 07, 2019 01:57AM
Union and government jobs were the bulk of the middle class. IT jobs are still moving to India. The big 3 car manufacturers are looking at closing plants in Canada and Mexico because they can make them cheaper in other countries. Close to a million government jobs were lost starting in 2007 and a lot of those haven't come back. Those people's jobs were ultimately responsible for about 5x more jobs. I was surprAnybody that wants to privatize government jobs is looking to take 10% off the top and send at least part of the work offshore, and get the rest done by computers and/or reworked so people making minimum wage can do the tasks.

When I worked at a refinery, I thought it would be an industry keeping people employed for at least another 50 years. I left in 1992. Now I'm not so sure that refinery will still be in business in 2042. I might have already bought my last new car with a gasoline engine. Coal has an even worse outlook.

If you ever hear that someone is building modular homes offshore and importing them here, then even the construction industry will be in danger.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: SteveO
Date: March 07, 2019 02:02AM
I think he means what used to be the promise of America, that if you worked hard you could get ahead and make a good living, support a family, even without a college degree. It's been slowly dying since about the '80s imo.

And yes, I think that concept/dream is now dead. bfd put it well. I fear for our future on many levels.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: March 07, 2019 03:00AM
Quote
SteveO
I think he means what used to be the promise of America, that if you worked hard you could get ahead and make a good living, support a family, even without a college degree. It's been slowly dying since about the '80s imo.

I'd say at least since about 1973. Even the oil embargo was insufficient to get our auto makers to see the light. The Japanese sure did though.

Some might even argue that heavy manufacturing began to decline in the 1960's after the post war industrial boom,
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: vision63
Date: March 07, 2019 03:28AM
Every house has a toilet. Every house has electricity. Every house is a color. Every street is paved. Every school needs teachers, Every hospital needs doctors and nurses and dietitians. Hundreds of non exportable categories of jobs exist.

Used to be most of the grandpa's of my gen dropped out to take those jobs. Then they started to demand high school grads. Now they walk down the street and enroll in the community college to learn how to frame up walls, fix modern vehicles, become electricians, welders, even urban farming.

No limits. Greatest nation on earth featuring endless opportunities limited only by the limits of your imagination.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: MacArtist
Date: March 07, 2019 05:02AM
I went to school for graphic design. Best year I ever had freelancing, I cleared $48K. Then in 2008, things took a dive. I was grossing $30K and couldn’t dream of saving any money for retirement. In 2012, I took a factory job as an industrial mechanic/high speed press operator (previous mechanical and manufacturing experience). I am paid hourly, non union and make $26.50/hr. My best year working 600+ of overtime, I made close to $100K. I work 12 hour swing shifts. I always work 1 day of every weekend. The place is the loudest environment I’ve ever worked in, constantly 125 decibels. And it’s over 100 degrees on the production floor in the summer. It can be the most boring, monotonous job you can imagine when everything is running great. It also can be very dangerous.

It isn’t for everyone. This company has a difficult time finding employees and they are willing to train. But younger people who want time to spend with their families and friends can’t deal with the work schedule.

Is this the American dream? I don’t know...I will have the house paid off in 3 years. I’ve been able to help my oldest daughter get through college. I am able to save for retirement.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2019 05:29AM by MacArtist.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: Pam
Date: March 07, 2019 05:46AM
$20 an hour is $41600 a year before taxes. That does not go far these days. Aside from manufacturing jobs there are a lot of jobs out there that do not pay like they used to when households had only one income. It's also more difficult to start in the mailroom/stockroom and work your way up. A lot of ladders are gone. Cost of living has far outstripped wage increases. Think of the people who work in grocery stores, who cut your hair, who work in your favorite restaurant, assist your vet, or receptionists...
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: March 07, 2019 06:43AM
....not to go political but when the rich and corporations just got a tax cut and the middle class exemptions got cut [ in the news that most tax payers will be shocked by tax returns this year as they are paying more than last year ]......



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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: DP
Date: March 07, 2019 06:49AM
I think he means what used to be the promise of America, that if you worked hard you could get ahead and make a good living, support a family, even without a college degree.

That is still alive and well-work hard, put your mind to it, and don't quit. It can be done! Now, there are a lot of Americans who don't want to be self employed, which is what I was describing. They are happy with a $20-$30 dollar an hour job where their work is defined and doesn't require them being responsible for anything beyond that. That's fine, if that's what they want or feel that's what they need to do for themselves and their family.

But if you want to make really good money, I think you have to go it alone. Or, you need to complete a good education. Lawyer, physician, finance-where you need to get an advanced education. That's still part of the American Dream which is still strong. And America will still help you get an advanced education if you are from modest means. Our history is replete with people who came from poverty and worked hard to become tops in their fields.

We also know that there are still good paying jobs even tho some application of, well, grit may be required. MacArtist's story-which if you've been around for awhile will be familiar with-is one of those stories. Doing what needs to be done even if it's not what you want to be doing...

Unfortunately, poverty is all too prevalent in America but that, too, can be overcome. A strong middle class has helped in this, but the issue here is the high paying union jobs that created a true middle class. Those jobs are going, or are gone, as the work done by human hands are being replaced by robots...

What America is famous for-to use a tired but true phrase-is thinking out of the box. Coming up with what will advance our people's well being, for ours and our family's well being, is what we know we can do as it becomes necessary.

This is what I feel is our future, what is our American Dream. If any people will figure it out, it's Americans...





Disclaimer: This post is checked for correct spelling, punctuation, and grammar. Any attempts at humor are solely the responsibility of the author and bear no claim that any and all readers will approve or appreciate said attempt at humor.
My name is DP, and I approve this message.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: March 07, 2019 07:38AM
I see a shift.
With the new tax scheme many will no longer need CPA's for their taxes. Turbo tax is FREE. Maybe they could become Financial Planners?

South Carolina has General Dynamics, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Volvo, and Streit USA Armoring building Vehicles.
Car plants in USA

The dream is alive where it is allowed to flourish. Apprentice Programs now common place in fields that were darn near impossible to get into before. Indentured servants under the guise of HB visas are scrutinized for need vs greed.



The world doesn't owe you a darn thing, nor does it care how you feel. Shame on those that tell you different.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: space-time
Date: March 07, 2019 07:59AM
Way yo go Bernie. I hope no one in your family is affected by cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, FoodStamps, student loans, etc. You are right, you don't owe the world a darn thing, and neither the world owes you a darn thing. Don't be ashamed to come back apologizing when you find yourself on the other side of the haves vs needs line.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: March 07, 2019 08:33AM
GM is mothballing that plant because demand for the small cars it was producing is way down. They hold out the option of configuring it for another vehicle. Employees are being offered jobs in other GM plants.

Thanks to the administration's tax and trade policies, manufacturing jobs are coming back to the United States. They are also encouraging young people to consider trade schools and apprenticeships rather than expensive four-year colleges that leave you in debt with no marketable skills. I won't go on, as the inevitable naysayers will push this over to the 'political' side. Just remember: it won't be futile to look for "Made in America" any more.

/Mr Lynn



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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: March 07, 2019 08:45AM
I have a special needs Son with Epilepsy. I have a Mother that is 89. I have a Daughter with 6 years of College and student loans. The point is if you wish and wait it will not get done.

The lessons I have learned I make to much for this and to little for that.

I would have better luck playing PowerBall than playing Social Services.

The youth needs to know that ULTIMATELY it is up to them to make their way.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: Acer
Date: March 07, 2019 08:53AM
Unemployment is down around 4%, technically "full" by economist standards, so someone is working. And it can't all be McJobs, else no one could afford the products the McJobbers are selling.

The days of $30 floor-sweeping union jobs may be gone, but seriously, was that sustainable? And did they REALLY sweep floors forever, or did they sweep for $20 for a few years until an opening on the line for $30 came up?
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: modelamac
Date: March 07, 2019 08:56AM
Quote
space-time
Way yo go Bernie. I hope no one in your family is affected by cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, FoodStamps, student loans, etc. You are right, you don't owe the world a darn thing, and neither the world owes you a darn thing. Don't be ashamed to come back apologizing when you find yourself on the other side of the haves vs needs line.

You are coming very close to taking this a political thread. You don't need to criticize.



Mr. Curmudgeon, on several OSes and an ego trip.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: decay
Date: March 07, 2019 09:59AM
“That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

-- George Carlin



---
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: space-time
Date: March 07, 2019 10:26AM
Quote
modelamac
Quote
space-time
Way yo go Bernie. I hope no one in your family is affected by cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, FoodStamps, student loans, etc. You are right, you don't owe the world a darn thing, and neither the world owes you a darn thing. Don't be ashamed to come back apologizing when you find yourself on the other side of the haves vs needs line.

You are coming very close to taking this a political thread. You don't need to criticize.

first, I am surprised the thread is still here and not on the other side. Anyway, I didn't criticize, I just wished he saw the other side of the line. Apparently he does, but some bad experiences left him with sour taste. I wish him and his family the best of luck.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: March 07, 2019 10:26AM
.....yes, because Russia has infiltrated the highest levels.......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2019 10:38AM by NewtonMP2100.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: wave rider
Date: March 07, 2019 10:29AM
Quote
decay
“That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

-- George Carlin

ftw smiley

Lot of talk in this thread about hard work, nose/grindstone, personal responsibility, grit, bootstrap lifting. Much is valid.

No one has mentioned good luck.

Don’t get sick.
[www.cancer.gov]

Not to mention other health issues.



=wr=
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: Yoyodyne ArtWorks
Date: March 07, 2019 10:37AM
Quote
decay
“That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.”

-- George Carlin

+1, ya beat me to it!



Once we place nonhuman animals outside our sphere of moral consideration
and treat them as things we use to satisfy our own desires,
the outcome is predictable.

- Peter Singer
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: vision63
Date: March 07, 2019 10:37AM
Half of it is just keeping your spirit and moving forward. The other half is fighting for justice.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: Mike Sellers
Date: March 07, 2019 11:33AM
Look at Brazil. They've almost squeezed their middle class out of existence. Some of the highest crime rates in the world. That's where we're heading if things don't change.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: March 07, 2019 11:33AM
....look at the movie.....Brazil......too....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: testcase
Date: March 07, 2019 11:51AM
YES, sadly, I believe the "American Dream IS dead.


Over the last 40~50 years, corporate "bean counters" have been successful in buying ALL levels of government and then, getting lawmakers to legislate mandates which require most companies to act in such a way as to maximize profit over and above ALL other factors. If a nickel (or even a penny) more can be made by following course "A" rather than "B", then the company must take course "A", even if that choice has other negative consequences. Because of this, we now have products that are poorly made, can't be readily serviced (if in fact they can be serviced at all), increased pollution and SO many other problems. Customers be damned, communities be damned, employees be damned and the world be damned so long as a few corporate fat cats and government elites can get a bigger payday. This is of course, the fault of the VOTERS who, far too often, give VERY little thought to who and what they're voting for (if they vote at all). For decades, my policy has been "throw the bums out". If "the bums" were regularly "thrown out", I believe that in three ~ five election cycles, positive changes would be seen. Lobbyists themselves can cast only ONE vote. Corporations and businesses can't even do that. If the voters were to WAKE UP, they could easily overpower all the lobbyist in the world. I doubt that will ever happen in my lifetime. sad smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2019 11:52AM by testcase.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: March 07, 2019 11:59AM
No, but it has changed and many haven't changed with it.

Here's a few items that have shaped my perspective:
- Having access to a massive amount of job data - what they pay, if pay is increasing or decreasing...
- Watching the last generation or two go through school, graduate, and go into the job market
- Paying close attention to what our government and school officials are doing (though I'll keep that to a minimum here to keep this thread on this side.)

Education has changed. Both college and before. For a long time, college has not been about gathering skills to get a job, but an experience for those who have the money. Student loans help those who don't have the money to have the same experience. Colleges flat out say it's not their job to ensure that graduates are ready for the job market. Meanwhile, graduates expect to be compensated for what they have "learned", regardless of its value to the job market.

Primary and secondary schools have gone the same route. If you look at their curriculum, it's not about how to budget or learn skills that are useful in the world. It's primarily about shaping beliefs, and at least around here, teaching the religion of a specific political party.

What happens is the kids just don't want jobs that pay well. They want things to be handed to them. They want low skill jobs to be high paying. Meanwhile, 10% of our high paying jobs go unfilled and we have to bring people in from other countries to fill them, because the kids here aren't willing to do the work, and many of the schools aren't willing to teach them. If this was 40 years ago, more schools would have programs to teach kids the skills they need to do these jobs. Then they could graduate from high school and get a decent job, and live the American Dream.

Forget $20-30/hr jobs, I'm talking about $50-75/hr jobs. Kids would rather play on their phones and tablets than take the math classes needed, or go to a trade school. Remember this? High-Paying Trade Jobs Sit Empty, While High School Grads Line Up For University [www.npr.org] Great examples of kids wanting to have an experience rather than prepare them to provide for themselves.

Meanwhile, we have corporations banding together to create their own schools to educate anyone who is willing to learn the skills so they can get high paying jobs. Eg [www.codefellows.org] They offer scholarships and, at last check, a guarantee that you'll get a job. IIRC, they even have a guarantee as to how much the job will pay. If you don't get a job, they'll give you your tuition back. Imagine if state funded schools had the same offer? Instead, it's all about building up sports programs so they administration can justify giving themselves huge salaries and bonuses.




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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2019 01:15PM by M A V I C.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: davester
Date: March 07, 2019 03:05PM
The fundamental truth is that rising income equality has killed the american dream. The fundamental data are shown below. Pay particular attention to the two lines marked "Top 1% US" and "Bottom 50% US" and the fact that they switched places completely after 1995. This is why americans are "mad as hell" and why Europeans are saying " why are those americans going off the deep end?"





"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: $tevie
Date: March 07, 2019 03:36PM
I think another reason the American Dream is dying is that one really can't pull oneself up by one's bootstraps. You can't work your way up from the mailroom to the boardroom because these days, any job higher than custodian requires a degree. My brother worked his way up from a job as a guy who painted dorm rooms and @#$%& heavy equipment around to Assistant Director of Facilities Management; the guy in charge of the HVAC and physical plants of that same college. When he began to look around for a job elsewhere (everyone was, the administration was ruining the place), he found that any equivalent position anywhere else required no less than a bachelor's degree plus this and that licensing and certification. So yeah, he worked his way up but then he was trapped at that one place. If you look at classified ads, you will be shocked at how many jobs that used to require OJT or apprenticeships require college degrees. It makes no sense.



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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: March 07, 2019 03:41PM
Quote
vision63
Every house has a toilet. Every house has electricity. Every house is a color. Every street is paved. Every school needs teachers, Every hospital needs doctors and nurses and dietitians. Hundreds of non exportable categories of jobs exist.

Used to be most of the grandpa's of my gen dropped out to take those jobs. Then they started to demand high school grads. Now they walk down the street and enroll in the community college to learn how to frame up walls, fix modern vehicles, become electricians, welders, even urban farming.

No limits. Greatest nation on earth featuring endless opportunities limited only by the limits of your imagination.

Refreshing attitude vision63! We need to keep positive, being a Negative Ned does not help anyone.
That said, I would LOVE to be making $20-$30 an hour. I say that as my restaurant years and c-store time both were based on a 50 hour week. Looking at it that way, $25 X 55 a week (adjusting to straight time) would be a nice $71,500 a year. Considerably more that I make now. That said, I still paid off my mortgage on a ranch house with an acre of landscaped yard, and gave some help to my kids college loans. Could not just "write a check" each semester like my daughter's roommate parents did.
Can't complain too much, not smart enough to get 40 hour a week job, for the same money I'm making now, I know my limitations. Nothing will be handed to me.

Dave

Just realized I ended this sounding like a Negative Ned.



Welcome to Dave's BBQ!

Many have eaten here....

Few have died
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: March 07, 2019 04:21PM
Quote
$tevie
I think another reason the American Dream is dying is that one really can't pull oneself up by one's bootstraps. You can't work your way up from the mailroom to the boardroom because these days, any job higher than custodian requires a degree. My brother worked his way up from a job as a guy who painted dorm rooms and @#$%& heavy equipment around to Assistant Director of Facilities Management; the guy in charge of the HVAC and physical plants of that same college. When he began to look around for a job elsewhere (everyone was, the administration was ruining the place), he found that any equivalent position anywhere else required no less than a bachelor's degree plus this and that licensing and certification. So yeah, he worked his way up but then he was trapped at that one place. If you look at classified ads, you will be shocked at how many jobs that used to require OJT or apprenticeships require college degrees. It makes no sense.

I was hiring for my team and the recruiter added a line that a college degree was required. I asked to take it off. She said that was a requirement for all jobs at the company. Knowing that we have high level positions here with people who don't have degrees (just a lot of experience) I couldn't do that. I was able to get HR to change it to "preferred." That said, requiring a degree is now being considered discriminatory, so it's starting to go away.




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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: March 07, 2019 06:01PM
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: Grumpyguy
Date: March 07, 2019 07:04PM
Just remember, since 1965 we have added 60 million legal citizens. Then starting in the late 60s, women entered the workforce in greater and greater numbers. Finally, we have between 15 to 30 million illegal aliens.

The great expansion of our population and the addition of women to the workforce has had a hand in driving down wages.



Bryan
______________________________________________________
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: vision63
Date: March 07, 2019 07:08PM
Quote
DinerDave
Quote
vision63
Every house has a toilet. Every house has electricity. Every house is a color. Every street is paved. Every school needs teachers, Every hospital needs doctors and nurses and dietitians. Hundreds of non exportable categories of jobs exist.

Used to be most of the grandpa's of my gen dropped out to take those jobs. Then they started to demand high school grads. Now they walk down the street and enroll in the community college to learn how to frame up walls, fix modern vehicles, become electricians, welders, even urban farming.

No limits. Greatest nation on earth featuring endless opportunities limited only by the limits of your imagination.

Refreshing attitude vision63! We need to keep positive, being a Negative Ned does not help anyone.
That said, I would LOVE to be making $20-$30 an hour. I say that as my restaurant years and c-store time both were based on a 50 hour week. Looking at it that way, $25 X 55 a week (adjusting to straight time) would be a nice $71,500 a year. Considerably more that I make now. That said, I still paid off my mortgage on a ranch house with an acre of landscaped yard, and gave some help to my kids college loans. Could not just "write a check" each semester like my daughter's roommate parents did.
Can't complain too much, not smart enough to get 40 hour a week job, for the same money I'm making now, I know my limitations. Nothing will be handed to me.

Dave

Just realized I ended this sounding like a Negative Ned.

If you don't think this world is yours, you'll never win despite everything that everyone is saying to be rock solid true.

My mom (and dad) went to segregated schools down south. we moved west and lived in the projects. We were so broke we got evicted from the projects (my father's fault). My mom refused to give in. Refused to be imprisoned by the crushing inertia of ghetto life.

She was always positive, always doing positive things. When she'd come to our bedroom to pray with us before we went to sleep, she'd tell us to thank "the heavenly father" or "the good master" for the free schools and libraries that we were able to enjoy. She knew all of our teachers. she worked as a school aid at our elementary school. Failure was not optional.

She was very political, very liberal and knew the score. But she believed that education, knowledge and out working everyone could make your dreams come true. She taught her children that.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: space-time
Date: March 07, 2019 07:31PM
well said v63, but I am curious if you really wanted to say "Failure was not optional. " or perhaps you wanted to say Failure was not an option.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: March 07, 2019 07:40PM
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space-time
well said v63, but I am curious if you really wanted to say "Failure was not optional. " or perhaps you wanted to say Failure was not an option.

There is no difference; the latter has just become part of the vernacular.

vision63, sounds like your mother's wisdom is strong in you. It's a story similar to those of men like Thomas Sowell, Ben Carson, and Clarence Thomas (grandfather in his case).

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: vision63
Date: March 07, 2019 09:04PM
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well said v63, but I am curious if you really wanted to say "Failure was not optional. " or perhaps you wanted to say Failure was not an option.

When I type with my fat thumbs, I can barely edit. Mostly I hit the space bar when I type something on the bottom row. So I spend too much energy trying to surgically place the cursor at the right spot to edit an error. I will let a whole lot slide.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2019 09:05PM by vision63.
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Re: Is the American dream dead?
Posted by: vision63
Date: March 07, 2019 09:06PM
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mrlynn
Quote
space-time
well said v63, but I am curious if you really wanted to say "Failure was not optional. " or perhaps you wanted to say Failure was not an option.

There is no difference; the latter has just become part of the vernacular.

vision63, sounds like your mother's wisdom is strong in you. It's a story similar to those of men like Thomas Sowell, Ben Carson, and Clarence Thomas (grandfather in his case).

/Mr Lynn

Surprisingly, that's actually true.
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