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Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: March 13, 2019 01:27PM
Thanks to cbelt3 for the update!
Appears US is the lone holdout now...
Quote
NYT -
Canada’s transport minister banned all Boeing 737 Max jets from its airspace, saying that newly available satellite-tracking data suggests similarities between the deadly crash involving one of the jets in Ethiopia on Sunday and another accident last October.

The move adds pressure on the Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing, which so far have resisted calls to ground the jet. The F.A.A. has said it has seen “no systemic performance issues” that would prompt it to do so, but safety regulators in some 42 countries have now banned flights by the jets.
New York Times



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2019 01:49PM by MrNoBody.
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Re: Canada Grounds 737Max
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: March 13, 2019 01:46PM
US just grounded them.
[www.cnn.com]


And WHY was the US the holdout ? (lucky nobody else died)
[www.vanityfair.com]

FWIW.. the stall avoidance code is being blamed. There are reports that pilots have experienced the same problem but were able to recover in time.
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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 13, 2019 02:02PM
So much for "it's about safety, not politics."
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Re: Canada Grounds 737Max
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: March 13, 2019 02:05PM
Well damn, that sucks for the operators and Boeing, but it looks more and more like it's the right move. I'm guessing the pilots who've encountered the issue before (and recovered) were fortunate enough to quickly ascertain the situation and implement a procedural solution. But the appearance of otherwise competent pilots ending with fatal results within months of each other suggests that Boeing's initial solution in hindsight was still flawed. I can't blame Boeing, sometimes problems make it all the way through design, testing and approval....only to manifest itself in field conditions.
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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 13, 2019 02:25PM
Replacement Stall Avoidance code was supposedly ready to deploy around late January but some kind of government issue caused a delay for several weeks.



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Re: Canada Grounds 737Max
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: March 13, 2019 02:31PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
I can't blame Boeing, sometimes problems make it all the way through design, testing and approval....only to manifest itself in field conditions.

As was the case with the original passenger jet - the De Havilland Comet. It was the first time that a plane was subjected to numerous pressure changes on a daily basis. The windows were square and developed stress fractures in the aluminum. that lead to three catastrophic failures in 12 months. Even after a redesign, the aircraft never recovered public confidence.

I doubt that Boeing will sell another Max, even if it is shown not to be at fault. Boeing may be lucky to avoid public shunning of all 737's simply because people won't understand the difference of a standard 737 and a Max version.



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Re: Canada Grounds 737Max
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: March 13, 2019 02:42PM
From a technical point of view, my understanding is that it's a simple fix. I would bet the 737 will rebound no problem. But you have a good point with the Comet (though I'm not sure there might be additional differences with that situation...among them a couple of alternative models such as the 707 and DC-8 starting to become readily available...right now there are years of backlogs for the 737 and it's only real competitor the A320 series, not sure anyone can afford to wait).
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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: Speedy
Date: March 13, 2019 03:20PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
So much for "it's about safety, not politics."

I imagine the flying public was starting to cancel tickets for travel on the 737 Max. Money overrules politics overrules safety.



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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: davester
Date: March 13, 2019 04:56PM
Quote
NYT -
...The F.A.A. has said it has seen “no systemic performance issues” that would prompt it to do so, but safety regulators in some 42 countries have now banned flights by the jets.
New York Times[/quote]

Which FAA idiot wrote that? If two planes crashing in short order with the pilots reporting difficulty controlling the aircraft attitude isn't a systematic performance issue, I don't know what is.

The US response has been ridiculous and so obviously based on money rather than safety up until the moment this nonsense was exposed.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: Bernie
Date: March 13, 2019 05:09PM
Made in China?



Think Different




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: Bernie
Date: March 13, 2019 05:18PM
Amazon 767 NTSB finding


Note: An earlier version of this article stated that the nose pitched down “in response to column input.” This was the exact phrasing used by the NTSB on their website. This phrasing was subsequently changed to “in response to nose-down elevator deflection” by the NTSB.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: March 13, 2019 06:17PM
To me, "in response to column input" means the pilot did it. The latter means they don't know who/what did it....could be the pilot, or it could be some uncommanded action by an aircraft system or failure in that system.
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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: DP
Date: March 14, 2019 07:03AM
Well, what about reports that the Ethiopian plane had flame and smoke coming from it before it went down? I can see the pilot reporting control problems if some control systems were destroyed, for example.





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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: March 14, 2019 10:12AM
Innacurate witnesses.....they may have been traumatized by what they saw and may not remember the exact sequence of such a short duration event.
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Re: Canada, now USA Ground 737Max
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: March 14, 2019 12:37PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Innacurate witnesses.....they may have been traumatized by what they saw and may not remember the exact sequence of such a short duration event.

Like the 'eyewitnesses' of the TWA Flight 800 crash??



N39° 39.7234', W075° 33.9788'
...word salad is not a disorder, it is a symptom...

“If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.”
-Albert Einstein

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