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aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: June 26, 2019 01:47PM
a real American tragedy gets worse

2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
[nypost.com]

Two more Florida deputies involved in last year’s Parkland school massacre have been fired for neglect of duty, the Broward County sheriff announced Wednesday.
Deputies Edward Eason and Josh Stambaugh were fired Tuesday for their inaction in the Feb. 14, 2018, shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, where 17 people were killed, Sheriff Gregory Tony said. He did not give details of the internal affairs investigation but said a lengthy report would be released later.

“In essence, it was neglect of duty. We lost 17 people,” Tony said at a brief press conference.

Stambaugh was working an off-duty shift at another school when he responded to reports of shots fired at Stoneman Douglas, the Sun-Sentinel reported. He walked to the back of the school to put on his bulletproof vest and then took cover for about five minutes when he heard the shots, according to bodycam footage. Stambaugh then got back in his truck and drove to a nearby highway — a trip that took more than five minutes, according to a state commission investigating the law enforcement response.

Eason, meanwhile, fled as bullets flew, then wasted time fiddling with his bulletproof vest and body camera while students were dying, investigators said. He also had been faulted for not writing an official report after getting a tip in February 2016 that the school shooter, Nikolas Cruz, had threatened on social media to open fire at a school.

Earlier this month, two other deputies were fired for neglect of duty — including school resource officer Scot Peterson, who was the first armed law enforcement officer at the scene, yet stood in place outside the building for 48 minutes.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 26, 2019 03:25PM
I don't see how this makes things worse. These guys don't belong in those roles -- I'd say things are better with them gone.



It is what it is.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 26, 2019 03:30PM
Seems like we're going to find out who wants to put their life on the line when there's an active shooter and so far we're a little disappointed.



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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: June 26, 2019 03:45PM
Quote
mattkime
Seems like we're going to find out who wants to put their life on the line when there's an active shooter and so far we're a little disappointed.

Another circle in your Venn diagram here could be "who wants to jump into a situation where you're expected to fire your gun amidst a group of schoolchildren, one of whom is likely the shooter that you're supposed to kill."



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 26, 2019 04:37PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
mattkime
Seems like we're going to find out who wants to put their life on the line when there's an active shooter and so far we're a little disappointed.

Another circle in your Venn diagram here could be "who wants to jump into a situation where you're expected to fire your gun amidst a group of schoolchildren, one of whom is likely the shooter that you're supposed to kill."

I get that. Solid point. But if you are working at a school... its gotta be something you factor into your willingness to work in that capacity.



----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 26, 2019 04:45PM
Either these deputies failed to take some action in an attempt to mitigate the shooting, or the Sheriff's investigation was inadequate resulting in wrongful terminations.

In either case, 'a little disappointed' is not the phrase I'd use.

There is a lot of unknown in the article for me to draw any finite conclusions one way or the other, except that I want to believe the internals were conducted fairly and objectively. It's interesting the Sheriff in office at the time of the shooting was removed by the Governor.

Aside from any details of this particular tragedy, you can't help anybody if you get yourself killed. Not following this other than mentions here, I didn't see where any of these deputies had any advanced active shooter training. That in itself doesn't excuse them from inaction, assuming there was something to be done without risk the the children.

If there was anything they should have been doing and failed to do, I have little sympathy. Nobody wants to die, but there is a job to do and a duty to fulfill.

On the other hand, it's not easy to know how one would act when faced with a truly life-threatening situation. Sometimes a cop is killed without ever seeing it coming. This is what happened to Ofc. Tara O'Sullivan, killed by a sniper while working a DV. She's the second officer to be killed in ambush in NorCal.

These deputies in FL had time to consider what might happen. Whether or not that affected their actions or inactions, I don't know. If they weren't up to the job, they needed to go.

It's just a very sad circumstance to find out if one has what it takes.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 26, 2019 04:51PM
I don't see how this makes things worse. These guys don't belong in those roles

Agreed, if the charges are accurate.

But Steven G's statement could be referring to the revelation that the alleged failures of the deputies resulted in preventable deaths.

It's a tragedy children were killed. It would be a further tragedy to find out inactions of those sworn to serve failed those children.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 26, 2019 05:39PM
Going all the way back to Columbine, it has been an ongoing criticism of many of the police units who responded to active shooter events that they were too passive in carrying out their responses in the interest of ensuring the safety of police personnel.

Wrong answer. Police know when they sign up for the job that exposure to danger is an occupational hazard.

The job description is "to protect and serve the public." Some days that will mean exposing themselves to greater danger than other days -- but that's the job. No one wants to read about police killed in the line of duty -- but, sometimes, that's the job.

Running in to protect little kids from shooters is exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Strategically and tactically, of course, but... that's the job.



It is what it is.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: jdc
Date: June 26, 2019 06:37PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Running in to protect little kids from shooters is exactly what they are supposed to be doing. Strategically and tactically, of course, but... that's the job.

Exactly.





----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 26, 2019 07:39PM
This is all very depressing news. I feel bad for Scot Peterson. There's a reason we don't draft 56-year-olds to serve in combat, and instead use young men who are strong and still have enough of that invulnerable feeling of teenagers.

I suppose the reality is that anybody who takes a job as security in a school should accept the possibility that gun fights and death could be part of the job. However, I feel badly for older people who think they have found a good post-law-enforcement retirement position, and don't realize they have signed up for the front lines. We should probably require them to take tests to see if they have the reflexes and nerve to function during a school shooting.

What a world.



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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: wowzer
Date: June 26, 2019 08:07PM
My understanding is that police are not required to run towards gunfire...at least legally required. Regardless, it sounds like this tragedy, along with many others, may have been preventable if the police and FBI did their jobs before the actual shooting. To fire these two deputies may just be scapegoating (as was said earlier, who really knows the truth).

I, for one, would like those in law enforcement concentrate on their proper actions for putting violent offenders on the national do not buy firearm registry and on the calls and tips that are made to them regarding possible shooters, instead of traffic tickets (and other money making schemes).



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: June 26, 2019 08:42PM
Quote
$tevie
This is all very depressing news. I feel bad for Scot Peterson. There's a reason we don't draft 56-year-olds to serve in combat, and instead use young men who are strong and still have enough of that invulnerable feeling of teenagers.

I suppose the reality is that anybody who takes a job as security in a school should accept the possibility that gun fights and death could be part of the job. However, I feel badly for older people who think they have found a good post-law-enforcement retirement position, and don't realize they have signed up for the front lines. We should probably require them to take tests to see if they have the reflexes and nerve to function during a school shooting.

What a world.
You’ve got a little too much gauze over the lens. Peterson was not some doddering semi-retiree. He was still an active police officer, thirty years on the job, 28 years as a school resource officer, ten years at Stoneman High. Given his occupation, I’m sure he was at least as aware as you or I regarding the climate of violence on campuses; very likely more aware.

Empathy is fine, but the facts should remain clear.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 26, 2019 09:24PM
An earlier Sun-Sentinal article looked at what each of the eight deputies investigated did during the shooting. Below is the description for the two who were just fired.

[www.sun-sentinel.com]

Edward Eason - Total 2018 earnings, including salary and overtime: $118,431

Eason was less than 2 miles from the high school when he learned of the shooting. But he didn’t go directly to Stoneman Douglas. He bypassed it. Instead, he went to the east side of Westglades Middle School, near the high school’s baseball field. The commission doubted that he “traveled urgently,” based on how long it took him to get there.
.
“Regardless of what he was doing, Eason did not move toward the sound of the gunshots on the MSDHS campus,” the commission determined.

Asked by investigators why he didn’t, Eason, 43, said: “Well, I didn’t know where they were, the gunshots.”

The commission, however, found that at 2:29 p.m., he is seen on his body camera approaching people on the baseball field and asking them if they heard the gunshots — while gesturing toward the high school campus. Eason told them he heard “at least a dozen, at least.”

Months before he was put on restrictive duty in November, he had been suspended for three days for failing to write a report detailing his handling of a 2016 tip that Cruz was going to shoot up a school.
Nothing became of the tip, which later was considered one of the tragic missed warning signs of Cruz’s deadly intentions. Eason’s 2011 job evaluation had signaled problems.

“Deputy Eason has displayed deficiencies in the areas of work performance, customer service, critical decision making, planning and organizing and polices and procedures,” a supervisor wrote. He was put under a performance plan and his later reviews improved. Reached by the Sun Sentinel, Eason declined comment.






Joshua Stambaugh - Total 2018 earnings, including salary and overtime: $152,857

Stambaugh, 50, was working off duty security at a nearby school when he heard reports of shots fired over his police radio. He arrived at Stoneman Douglas nearly five minutes after Cruz started shooting.

Stambaugh got out of his truck, went to the back of it to put on his bulletproof vest and then took cover for about five minutes after hearing four or five gunshots, according to body camera footage and a sworn statement.

“I had no idea where they were coming from,” he told state investigators.

His next move was not into the school, but to get back into his truck and drive to a nearby highway. He later said a dispatcher asked an officer to go to the south side of the school and no one answered.

That trip took over five minutes and thirty seconds, the state commission found.

“I could see the whole side of the school and I had binoculars,” he said in a sworn statement to investigators. “So, if he was anywhere in that school, on the stairwells, I could, you know, get vision of it and I can advise on the radio.”

Stambaugh, like other Sheriff’s Office deputies, struggled to recall the last time he received active shooter training — uncertain whether it was in the last 10 years.

“I couldn’t give you a time,” he told an investigator, according to the state commission. “It was a long time ago.”

Sheriff’s Office records show he last had training in 2016.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: IronMac
Date: June 26, 2019 09:27PM
Police officers are NOW supposed to run into an active shooting incident at a school and take down the shooter(s) as quickly as possible. At the time of Columbine it was thought best to wait outside and see what was happening.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: June 27, 2019 09:36AM
Fired or allowed to put in their papers and get full retirement?

IIRC, that's what the first guy to be blamed (SRO) did to start collecting on his generous pension.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: wowzer
Date: June 27, 2019 10:08AM
Quote
IronMac
Police officers are NOW supposed to run into an active shooting incident at a school and take down the shooter(s) as quickly as possible. At the time of Columbine it was thought best to wait outside and see what was happening.

They are supposed to run into gunfire? I don’t know if the courts would agree with that.



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: June 27, 2019 11:10AM
Quote
Bill in NC
Fired or allowed to put in their papers and get full retirement?

IIRC, that's what the first guy to be blamed (SRO) did to start collecting on his generous pension.

That was a rational decision on his part.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 27, 2019 01:32PM
Quote
Bill in NC
Fired or allowed to put in their papers and get full retirement?

IIRC, that's what the first guy to be blamed (SRO) did to start collecting on his generous pension.

In Florida, you still retain your pension if you are fired. You only lose it if you are found guilty of certain felonies. Even then you still get the portion you put in and the earnings on the portion.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 27, 2019 04:22PM
In Florida, you still retain your pension if you are fired.


A law like that would have been beneficial to those elsewhere who were fired so that the companies didn't a have to pay their pensions.

So we have an outing (public record, of course) of their overtime, as though that's relevant.

Can anybody hazard an educated guess as to how someone in emergency services would accrue such an annual salary?

We're given a smattering of what they were doing, including a characterization - 'fiddling'. Was he putting in a trauma plate, untangling straps, or looking in a mirror wondering 'does this make my gut look fat?'

On glaring omission is what their department expected them to be doing. So we have one side of the story, but not without some color and editorializing. No details, just an overview.

If these deputies were derelict and negligent in their duties, they deserve to be fired and lose their pensions. But I'd like to know the full story, and from an accurate and objective source. Along with that would be an idea what non-SWAT types are trained and required to do, and how long it took a supervisor and SWAT team to arrive on scene.

Many PDs and SOs have developed plans for responding to active shootings in schools. So did this SO have one and what part did those deputies play.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: IronMac
Date: June 28, 2019 06:58AM
Quote
wowzer
Quote
IronMac
Police officers are NOW supposed to run into an active shooting incident at a school and take down the shooter(s) as quickly as possible. At the time of Columbine it was thought best to wait outside and see what was happening.

They are supposed to run into gunfire? I don’t know if the courts would agree with that.

Don't be silly.
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Re: aftermath of a tragedy: 2 more deputies fired over Parkland school massacre response
Posted by: wowzer
Date: July 09, 2019 05:07PM
Quote
IronMac
Quote
wowzer
Quote
IronMac
Police officers are NOW supposed to run into an active shooting incident at a school and take down the shooter(s) as quickly as possible. At the time of Columbine it was thought best to wait outside and see what was happening.

They are supposed to run into gunfire? I don’t know if the courts would agree with that.

Don't be silly.

[en.wikipedia.org]

[www.nytimes.com]



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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