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Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 16, 2019 06:12PM
I'm not talking computers, rather straight electronics...

I have a specialized piece of scientific equipment that apparently needs a new battery. Unfortunately, the equipment is quite old and there is no service manual available online; the regular manual for this equipment specifies that it has an internal lithium battery that should only be replaced by the company. However, the company hasn't sold this equipment for > 15 years and it's very unlikely they'd be willing to service it; and even if they did, they'd be likely to charge about 20x more than the equipment is actually worth.

I've been able to get this item open -- I have a few of them, including a couple that are nonfunctional and therefore work fine as demos to try to figure out where the battery is and what type it is. The problem is, looking at the various circuit boards, I can't seem to figure out where the darned battery is! (I'm sort of assuming it's likely to be one of those button-type cells, but obviously I'm not sure.)

Anyone here handy with such things? (I was reminded to ask about this, in part, because of the thread about MRFers who've gone missing or passed away ... I had previously contacted and gotten a lot of help from Dick Moore about these things, but I haven't seen him post here in a very long time...)

TiA




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 06:18PM by PeterB.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: July 16, 2019 06:18PM
Pictures.
Could be soldered to the board and look like a capacitor.

Could be labeled bb or with a battery symbol. Could be numbered BB-1.




Staunton, Virginia



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 06:20PM by Bernie.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: July 16, 2019 06:26PM
Google image search, device name + battery + replace or something similar. Maybe You Tube also. I recently found there’s a subset of videos on restoring old electronics to working condition.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 16, 2019 06:28PM
Quote
Bernie
Pictures.
Could be soldered to the board and look like a capacitor.

Could be labeled bb or with a battery symbol. Could be numbered BB-1.

Bernie, I can take photos of the boards I'm able to see ... this thing is built like a Chinese puzzle, it took me forever to figure out how to open it and I'm hesitant to disassemble more without knowing what I'm looking for.

Edit -- photos here: [imgur.com]

... they're sort of in order: first two pics of the back board, then four of the front board, then one of the entry board. On the top left of the back board (first photo of the series), I do see something marked with a plus / minus sign, but that is NOT a battery, it has leads on the other side that lead to another part of the device.

Quote
Blankity Blank
Google image search, device name + battery + replace or something similar. Maybe You Tube also. I recently found there’s a subset of videos on restoring old electronics to working condition.

That was of course one of the first things I did, no joy. It's too specialized of an item for anyone to have bothered. Frankly they're now cheap enough to buy used, that I suspect anyone like myself who finds the battery is defective might just throw out the whole unit and buy a new (used) one.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 06:46PM by PeterB.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: timg
Date: July 16, 2019 06:35PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Bernie
Pictures.
Could be soldered to the board and look like a capacitor.

Could be labeled bb or with a battery symbol. Could be numbered BB-1.

Bernie, I can take photos of the boards I'm able to see ... this thing is built like a Chinese puzzle, it took me forever to figure out how to open it and I'm hesitant to disassemble more without knowing what I'm looking for.

Generally they would be like the button or some sort of cylinder, unless this is a high drain device, in which case it may be pretty much any shape, but would be significantly larger. If not pictures, could you at least post what it is and maybe a model number?



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 16, 2019 06:39PM
If you've got non-functional demos, forge ahead.

If there's something that says the manufacturer can replace the battery, they have to be able to get to it.

Searching for info with the name and model number is a great idea, as are posting pics here.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 16, 2019 06:44PM
Older electronics often had button-style batteries in a heat-shrink envelope.

You are probably looking for something small and round and flat and encased in shiny (could be yellow, blue, black, gray or red) plastic with two wires coming off of it and holding it to the logic board. If you're lucky, the two wires will be socketed and if you're unlucky they'll not just be soldered, but will also be very very short and ready to flake off due to age.



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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 16, 2019 06:49PM
Looking at my photos (link above), the other thing I'm wondering about is that cylindrical item that's soldered to the board that projects out, towards the top left in photo one. The cylinder has a blue bottom and silver top. But I don't know ... that'd be a strange shape / location for a battery.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Fritz
Date: July 16, 2019 07:10PM
I assume this is the beast?



try these refurbishers (not an actual word) of such equipment.
that's a very specialized box, as I'm sure you know.

[www.google.com]


I think this is them now.

[www.thermofisher.com]



!#$@@$#!

all I need to know I learnt from Bugs Bunny on Saturday mornings.

Television is a medium because it is neither rare nor well done.
>>>Ernie Kovacs>>>



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 07:13PM by Fritz.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: timg
Date: July 16, 2019 07:13PM
I don't see anything that looks like a batter in your photos.



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 16, 2019 07:13PM
Fritz, not quite -- it's a model Px2, but you've got the right company ... as I said, it's doubtful they'd service this at this point, and even if they did -- they'd charge much more for it, than it's worth.

Edit -- it also occurs to me, is it possible they put the battery on the UNDERSIDE of a board?? Ugh, that'd be terrible...

And yeah, timg, now you see my confusion. I could imagine a battery of the type Sarcany has described, but there's not even something like that visible.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 07:21PM by PeterB.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: timg
Date: July 16, 2019 07:18PM
Quote
PeterB
Fritz, not quite -- it's a model Px2, but you've got the right company ... as I said, it's doubtful they'd service this at this point, and even if they did -- they'd charge much more for it, than it's worth.

Edit -- it also occurs to me, is it possible they put the battery on the UNDERSIDE of a board?? Ugh, that'd be terrible...

Yes, putting the battery on the other side is possible.

In your first picture, there are 2 solder joints at the top/center of the board that have a "+" and a "-" silk screened on the board. It's possible the battery is on the other side of that board.

Then again, that might just be the AC input since the rest of that board looks like a power supply.



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: testcase
Date: July 16, 2019 07:19PM
What do you have to lose by contacting the company? Worst case is that you're correct about an exorbitant fee or, you could be surprised with a moderate fee and, get a proper repair done. An email or, a couple of minutes on the phone could be fruitful. I'd ask if they have info they could send (or a link that could be helpful) too.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 16, 2019 07:23PM
Quote
timg
Quote
PeterB
Fritz, not quite -- it's a model Px2, but you've got the right company ... as I said, it's doubtful they'd service this at this point, and even if they did -- they'd charge much more for it, than it's worth.

Edit -- it also occurs to me, is it possible they put the battery on the UNDERSIDE of a board?? Ugh, that'd be terrible...

Yes, putting the battery on the other side is possible.

In your first picture, there are 2 solder joints at the top/center of the board that have a "+" and a "-" silk screened on the board. It's possible the battery is on the other side of that board.

Then again, that might just be the AC input since the rest of that board looks like a power supply.

The plus / minus is the thing I was referring to, to which are soldered leads on the other side that lead to another part of the device (not a battery).

Quote
testcase
What do you have to lose by contacting the company? Worst case is that you're correct about an exorbitant fee or, you could be surprised with a moderate fee and, get a proper repair done. An email or, a couple of minutes on the phone could be fruitful. I'd ask if they have info they could send (or a link that could be helpful) too.

I actually remember now that I think I did contact them at some point; as I recall they told me they were no longer servicing them, and refused to provide a service manual, saying it was proprietary.

Edit -- worth mentioning what the battery is for. It's similar in function to a PRAM battery, in that it provides power to the machine to keep the date and time, and preserve the data / programming. When the battery starts to die, the machine begins to lose these things -- date and time, and also the programming gets corrupted. That's what's happened to one of them. Here's what the manual says about the battery: "The unit is fitted with an internal lithium battery containing a hazardous substance. This should be replaced with the original type and disposed of with care." smiling bouncing smiley

Edit 2 -- could it be the blue things at the very bottom right of photo 2? There seem to be two of them, they look like they're shrink-wrapped over...




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 07:50PM by PeterB.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 16, 2019 07:53PM
Planning on cloning a family pet for Christmas?
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Golfer
Date: July 16, 2019 08:23PM
This section of the third pic looks familiar




In the control tower for one our compressors at work there is a piece very similar to this (the piece with the tie around it). In our case it is a RAM chip and it has a PRAM battery inside it to store the operating parameters for the 800 HP electric motor that runs the compressor ( I had to find and replace it a couple years ago).
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 16, 2019 08:33PM
but that is NOT a battery

That's probably a piezoelectric buzzer.


The cylinder has a blue bottom and silver top.

Can you make out any of the writing on it or on the PCB around it? I'd guess it to be a diode, and a rather studly one at that.


could it be the blue things at the very bottom right of photo 2? There seem to be two of them, they look like they're shrink-wrapped over...

I see a toroidal core inductor, partially insulated in a vinyl covering. There's something blue next to it under the two read female connectors. It doesn't look to be an inductor .

On the left, more to the middle of the PCB are two blue items , possibly ceramic disc capacitors. I'm not sure what you're describing.

But so far, I don't see anything I think is a battery either.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 16, 2019 08:37PM
In our case it is a RAM chip and it has a PRAM battery inside it to store the operating parameters

Huh. That might explain the additional use of the bread twisty to hold it in place.

He did say he had extra units...




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 16, 2019 08:48PM
what is on the bottom of this?

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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 16, 2019 09:03PM
My best guess and the reasoning...

The manual says:
"The unit is fitted with an internal lithium battery containing a hazardous substance. This should be replaced with the original type and disposed of with care."

This is there because it's possible -- engineered -- to get to the battery and remove it for safe disposal.

So the battery should be accessible from the outside with minimal fuss.

My guess is that there is no battery because someone removed it already.

You have spares... Open another one (one that keeps time if you have one that can do so) and see if there's a battery clipped to the board.



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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 16, 2019 10:16PM
Quote
space-time
what is on the bottom of this?


I think that is where the battery WAS. Look at the outline on the PCB of a battery-ish outline Pos and Neg marked. Do the solder blobs look like there were leads clipped?
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Diana
Date: July 16, 2019 11:03PM
If you have another Px2 look at the area that S-T and Racer X have pointed to. I doubt that there is a battery there, but I could be wrong. It could also be mounted on the underside. A look at the Cole-Parmer site tells me that the battery is replaceable, but it is not a trivial exercise getting to it which is why they recommend that it be replaced by the manufacturer.

Also, I would seriously look at the IC chip with the wire tie on it. As Golfer said, there could easily be a battery inside that box they tied with the wire tie. It would make more sense that the battery would be here as opposed to the underside of a board.

I won't be at work tomorrow, but I can ask someone in BioMed if they have seen one of these before (probably, since I work at a biomedical research institution) and where the battery might be found. If you don't find it by then, let me know.

Diana
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 16, 2019 11:36PM
1) Yes, the battery should be replaceable. However, getting this thing apart was a significant undertaking, so it's obvious that, yes, they want you sending it in for them to do the replacement. The battery is definitely somewhere on the inside and not accessible from the outside.

2) The area that space-time has highlighted in blue is the one that I was saying I'd already seen, but the flip side of the board does not have a battery there, it has leads that go to another part of the device (which is not a battery). There was definitely NOT a battery in that location that was removed, because the machine was able to hold program data in place until relatively recently.

3) I went ahead and looked at the underside of the main board; no battery there. There's definitely none on the input board. To look at the power board is really hard, and to look at the underside of the power board will be nearly impossible.

4) The blue things I was asking about, I'm pretty sure they're very large capacitors ... if I angle my view, I think I see at the base of one of them, the letter C with a number. I've just never seen capacitors that look like that.

5) At this point, I'm willing to bet that Golfer is onto something and it's inside that RAM chip... I really don't see anywhere else where it could be. There's certainly no obvious button-type cell anywhere to be seen, and nothing like what Sarcany was describing (which I've seen before too) of something that's composed of a few cells which are shrink-wrapped together and soldered to a board. Tomorrow I'll open up that RAM chip to see what's going on ... since I'm working on a parts machine anyway, I don't see that I can do much more damage than I've already done.

As for cloning ... I do a lot of that. smiling bouncing smiley ... for those of you in the audience who aren't familiar, this is a thermal cycler used to do polymerase chain reaction (PCR) ... it's hard to believe that, back in the day, a machine like this might have cost $5-6K. Now you can buy a used working one on eBay for about $125... for all your home cloning needs!

Thanks to all for your help.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 11:45PM by PeterB.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: MikeF
Date: July 17, 2019 12:07AM
In the 5th picture, the "philips p80c552eba" is an 8-bit microcontroller. Assuming that circuit board is the "computer" portion, I would think the battery would be there. What's the blue vertical item in the top left of the picture? The two chips held together with strapping could be stacked RAM chips. They used to do that. But it could be a separate battery holder mounted somewhere with leads to the circuit board.

I think you're going to have to remove all the circuit boards...
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: wave rider
Date: July 17, 2019 12:27AM
Hey! Looka here!


I could help myself, but where is the fun in that? Good luck with the repair.



=wr=
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 17, 2019 06:05AM
my guess is the older model had a battery but they upgraded the model to non-volatile RAM and removed the battery, but never updated the manual. Probably the non-volatile RAM started to fail, which is why the machine does not hold the program now, not because the battery does not hold a charge.

let us know what you find out.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Golfer
Date: July 17, 2019 07:48AM
At this point, I'm willing to bet that Golfer is onto something and it's inside that RAM chip... I really don't see anywhere else where it could be. There's certainly no obvious button-type cell anywhere to be seen, and nothing like what Sarcany was describing (which I've seen before too) of something that's composed of a few cells which are shrink-wrapped together and soldered to a board. Tomorrow I'll open up that RAM chip to see what's going on ... since I'm working on a parts machine anyway, I don't see that I can do much more damage than I've already done.

Ours looks the same, down to the wire tie. That is what originally caught my eye.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 17, 2019 07:51AM
.....Acme.....



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 17, 2019 07:52AM
So, taking what s-t just said, maybe the twistie-tied chip is the (not-so-)nonvolatile RAM. Can it be swapped with an identical chip from your non-working spares? Maybe that particular part isn't bad in your spares.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 17, 2019 08:16AM
Quote
MikeF
In the 5th picture, the "philips p80c552eba" is an 8-bit microcontroller. Assuming that circuit board is the "computer" portion, I would think the battery would be there. What's the blue vertical item in the top left of the picture? The two chips held together with strapping could be stacked RAM chips. They used to do that. But it could be a separate battery holder mounted somewhere with leads to the circuit board.

I think you're going to have to remove all the circuit boards...

I think the blue vertical item is just the right side of the pin holder for the rainbow ribbon cable -- you'll see it in pic #4 toward the top right.

If it turns out there is no battery as s-t is suggesting, only non-volatile RAM, any hints as to which chip(s) it is?

Although ... I don't see how non-volatile RAM could hold something like a date/time when it's off ... which is what the machine is able to do.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 17, 2019 08:54AM
....EM....pulse....



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Schpark
Date: July 17, 2019 10:18AM
Search for NVSRAM.



"Without death, life would lose much of its meaning. My goal is to live in such a manner that I alter world in some fundamental way before I'm gone. As I get older and watch my son grow I realize I've already achieved my goal." - Ztirffritz
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 17, 2019 10:49AM
A good capacitor can keep a clock running for a long time.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: MikeF
Date: July 17, 2019 11:00AM
In the 5th picture, the "ST M29F010B" chip is the NVRAM:
[pdf.datasheetcatalog.com]
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: timg
Date: July 17, 2019 11:54AM
Quote
MikeF
In the 5th picture, the "ST M29F010B" chip is the NVRAM:
[pdf.datasheetcatalog.com]

Technically, it is not an NVRAM, it's a NOR Flash chip. It is non-volatile though.

It wouldn't really help with keeping the time though.



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: July 17, 2019 12:27PM
On the power supply board, Picture 1, the one with the fuses and near the fan there is a perpendicular circuit board with a mostly silver with blue end part. Does it have a number you can google?

Where the memory battery belongs is near tp1 in picture #4 because the 3 legged thing bolted to the board, L7805, is a 5 volt regulator.
IMHO

Peak under that PS board to see if some STUFF is mounted under there.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 17, 2019 12:38PM
....you mean any....Borg.....??



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: July 17, 2019 12:54PM
Quote
Bernie
On the power supply board, Picture 1, the one with the fuses and near the fan there is a perpendicular circuit board with a mostly silver with blue end part. Does it have a number you can google?

Where the memory battery belongs is near tp1 in picture #4 because the 3 legged thing bolted to the board, L7805, is a 5 volt regulator.
IMHO

Peak under that PS board to see if some STUFF is mounted under there.

Maybe, but I wouldn't think that a battery should need much regulation.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: July 17, 2019 01:42PM
They supply the same 5 volt circuit.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: MikeF
Date: July 17, 2019 01:59PM
In this picture, these two items are labelled "BR1" and "BR2" and have a polarity indication. "BR" stands for a battery on circuit nomenclature.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: July 17, 2019 02:11PM
....thought BR stood for....brah [ bro ].......



____________________________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Diana
Date: July 17, 2019 02:40PM
Quote
MikeF
In this picture, these two items are labelled "BR1" and "BR2" and have a polarity indication. "BR" stands for a battery on circuit nomenclature.

BR is a bridge rectifier, either BT or B is a battery.

D

nomenclature
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: July 17, 2019 03:59PM
Yeah, Bridge. Four leads and a notch for polarity.
what is this silver and blue thingee?





Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 17, 2019 04:34PM
OK guys ... so it turns out the RAM chip that Golfer pointed out (the one that was tied up) has another RAM chip inside of it rather than a battery.

In the photo that Bernie has just posted above, the silver and blue cylinder on the left is one of things I'd mentioned that I thought *could* maybe be a battery. It's soldered to a board that comes out from the power board. I'll see if I can't get some pics of it from the side, so as to read whatever is written on it.

As I said, it's nearly impossible to get under the power board.

At this point, I'm kinda ready to give up... almost tempted to ship it to one of you all to figure out where the damned battery is! (Just because it's so frustrating...)




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 17, 2019 04:58PM
I think this challenge should be stickied until it's solved.
We have a mission...let's go, squad!
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 17, 2019 05:01PM
Quote
Steve G.
I think this challenge should be stickied until it's solved.
We have a mission...let's go, squad!

smiley-score010




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: neophyte
Date: July 17, 2019 07:09PM
Perhaps the battery is not attached to a PC board but is elsewhere, away from the heating block of course.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: Bernie
Date: July 17, 2019 07:39PM
Check for a pulse on all of the dead units. Between ground and TP1 for starts. We are looking for at least 3.5 volts to keep the memory up. You have lost that, and the memory, but you get the ideal. Can you find 2 volts?
And to all a good night.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: The Grim Ninja
Date: July 18, 2019 04:49PM
There appears to be a lot missing from those photos. I don't get a clear idea of the layout of the overall device. Where does the rainbow ribbon go? Or the other ribbon that appears to be attached to what I assume is the front panel?

If those photos show all the boards, then the battery is surface mounted to the bottom of one of them. [unlikely since there's so few surface mount items]. Otherwise, it's at the end of one of the 2/3/4 pin connectors. I'd lean toward the 3 or 4 since those are polarity sensitive.

It would be very helpful to have a photo that includes everything.
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Re: Any electronically-minded individuals in the house?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 18, 2019 06:19PM
Grim, those are all the boards that I can see.

Overall layout of the device:

1) Photos 1 and 2 are of the power board, which is mounted on the rear of the device. There are two small boards that project off the power board, which are hard to take photos of because of the angle ... the silver/blue item is soldered to one of these.

2) Photos 3-6 are of the main board, and the photos are arranged in this order: top left, bottom left, bottom right, top right. (The main board overall is shaped like a "U".)

3) There's a ribbon cable that goes from the main board to the data entry board -- that's photo #7, but there's definitely no battery on that board.

I had to disconnect a number of cables (ribbon and other types) to get the top of the device to lift off from the bottom.

UPDATE: for anyone still reading, I just got a quote from Cole-Palmer, who apparently still does battery replacement on these. The quote was $350 (not including shipping) ... at that price, no way am I going to go through them, I could buy 2-3 new (used) ones at that price. I will continue trying to look for the battery, which I'm beginning to wonder if is mounted on the underside of a board as Grim is suggesting. At the price they're offering, it'd actually be cheaper to ship to one of you all, and have YOU figure this out!




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2019 08:30PM by PeterB.
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