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Car Tire Question
Posted by: pinkoos
Date: July 24, 2019 10:20AM
Hi

I need to replace the tires on my 2015 Lexus NX200t, FWD, base model

I was considering getting something a bit more "robust" than standard all season-type tires, something like all terrain or all weather, mainly to try and improve traction on wet roads in rainy Houston

However, the Lexus tire "specialist" said that getting tires like that will make the car feel too "aggressive" and will totally take away the smooth ride that Lexus is known for

Is there a happy medium tire that I can consider? Something a bit more wet weather traction than OEM-type tires but not so knobby that would potentially make the ride more rough, more loud and give me less MPG?



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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 24, 2019 10:21AM
michelin defenders
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 24, 2019 10:47AM
Good starting point - [tires.tirerack.com]

Knobby tires aren't necessarily better in the rain. Rain traction is a specific quality you can measure for.



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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: July 24, 2019 11:07AM
Michelin LTX M/S 2. Great tire in rain and snow, long tread life, GREAT ride and low noise. No need for all terrain unless you're going off road.

For rain traction you want lots of siping. Block tread won't give good wet traction and can be very noisy.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Thrift Store Scott
Date: July 24, 2019 11:22AM
Quote
macphanatic
For rain traction you want lots of siping. Block tread won't give good wet traction and can be very noisy.

^ This, as a rule.

Quote
macphanatic
Michelin LTX M/S 2. Great tire in rain and snow, long tread life, GREAT ride and low noise. No need for all terrain unless you're going off road.

If they're available in the exact size you need, it's hard to argue with that recommendation.



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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 24, 2019 11:35AM
It is always a trade off between noise, comfort, performance and handling (and price).

TireRack has extensive reviews so you can make an informed choice. Using Comfort and Wet handling, I think this is a good option:
$135 - BFGoodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT 9 (225/65R17)



In tha 360. MRF User Map



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2019 11:35AM by Filliam H. Muffman.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: July 24, 2019 11:35AM
Quote
Racer X
michelin defenders

I loved the Defenders on my 2006 Jetta 2.0T. Consumer Reports loved them, too.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: July 24, 2019 11:51AM
As others have said, a block tread generally does worse in rain as you have less tire in contact with the road. They do make sense if you're traveling in mud or loose dirt, which does not describe your typical Lexus driver. Seek out a decent all season tire in your price range. Siping is good for both rain and ice.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: PeterW
Date: July 24, 2019 12:32PM
Quote
Racer X
michelin defenders

Amen. I put a set of Defenders on my Prius and they made it a different car in the rain. No more white knuckles.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: datbeme
Date: July 24, 2019 02:01PM
Been very happy with some Defenders I put on our Pilot in the Spring. I can't comment on the rain performance because I haven't really done a ton of driving in the rain thus far. But I can tell you that I was eager to replace my very worn OEM tires, and I struggled to find the right balance between rain performance, snow performance, longevity and ride/noise.

One of the other Michelin models was pretty highly rated—perhaps better in the rain—but reviewers were quick to point out that they had a very short useful life. The Defenders seemed great overall, but I was a bit afraid they'd be noisy. Turns out that's not an issue at all. They actually seem smoother and quieter than the OEM tires. Can I prove that? Absolutely not, but it seems that way. Happy with my decision.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: pinkoos
Date: July 24, 2019 02:09PM
Just looking at the Costco Tire website for my particular model, there are two Michelin Defenders listed:

Defender T + H $165
Defender LTX M/S $165

Incidentally, there's also the BF Goodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT $135

The Michelins are described as "all season" and the BF Goodrich as "all weather traction"

Questions:

1. Which of the two Michelins are you all recommending? They're both the same price...not sure what the difference is
2. Any real difference between the descriptive terms "all season" and "all weather traction?"

Thanks again for the assistance - all the replies have been very helpful
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Gareth
Date: July 24, 2019 02:26PM
Quote
tirerack.com
The Defender T+H tire is Michelin's Standard Touring All-Season tire developed for the drivers of coupes, family sedans, minivans and small crossover vehicles looking for a long-lasting, comfortable tire that delivers all-season traction in the dry, wet and light snow.

The Defender LTX M/S is Michelin's Highway All-Season light truck tire developed to combine long tread life with all-season capabilities for vans, pickups and sport utility vehicles, as well as for commercial vans, shuttles and chassis cab vehicles using heavy-duty, light-truck sizes. The Defender LTX M/S is designed to combine a smooth, quiet ride with year-round traction in dry, wet and wintry conditions, even in light snow.

Basically, T+H is a passenger car tire. LTX is a "light truck" tire. For a small crossover, the T+H probably makes more sense and would be more comfortable. I'd expect the LTX tire to be a bit stiffer.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Buzz
Date: July 24, 2019 02:34PM
How much do you drive the Lexus each year? We put less than 7,000 miles per year on ours, and spousal unit just opted to replace the expensive Michelins we had on it w/ some cheapo asian version, after picking up a nail, and the tire shop wouldn't fix the tire because it was too old and the sidewalls were cracking from old age. The tire guy's logic was that if you're gonna get less than 50% of the expected wear out of the tires before they rot, might as well opt for cheaper tires. While I love Costco's tire dept, they only seem to carry good to really good tires. If you got full, or close to full mileage in four years, then you ought to get really good tires. Tire Rack usually has some very knowledgeable people to help with these decisions, I'd suggest calling them, in addition to their web data that mattkime alluded to.
==
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: pinkoos
Date: July 24, 2019 02:39PM
I put on average 40+ miles per day on the car with my work commute, etc.

So I'd say around 10,000 to 11,000 miles per year

We got it in June 2015 and it has around 45,000 miles on it right now
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: mikebw
Date: July 24, 2019 03:41PM
Quote
Buzz
How much do you drive the Lexus each year? We put less than 7,000 miles per year on ours, and spousal unit just opted to replace the expensive Michelins we had on it w/ some cheapo asian version, after picking up a nail, and the tire shop wouldn't fix the tire because it was too old and the sidewalls were cracking from old age. The tire guy's logic was that if you're gonna get less than 50% of the expected wear out of the tires before they rot, might as well opt for cheaper tires. While I love Costco's tire dept, they only seem to carry good to really good tires. If you got full, or close to full mileage in four years, then you ought to get really good tires. Tire Rack usually has some very knowledgeable people to help with these decisions, I'd suggest calling them, in addition to their web data that mattkime alluded to.
==

Very good point. I had an old beater that only saw 50 miles a week, so when the time came to replace the rotting tires I went with the cheapest set from Merchant's.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Mr645
Date: July 24, 2019 03:54PM
While a bit pricey, the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 comes in the proper size and load range for your Lexus SUV.

I also noticed that no one is mentioning that the rubber compound has a big effect on wet weather traction. Summer performance tires typically provide the best wet road grip.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: July 24, 2019 04:03PM
My wife has the Defender LTX M/S on her crossover. Great ride, not harsh or loud. Prior to her crossover, she had an Explorer that had 2 sets of LTX M/S (predecessor to the Defender version). They were fabulous tires and had a long tread life. She will never put a different set of tires on her car.

I've had 2 sets of the LTX M/S on my previous car, now my son's car. Finally replaced 2 tires of the second set with the Defender LTX M/S as the tires had about 60,000 miles on them (still had enough tread to pass inspection but felt better putting new tires on).
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 24, 2019 04:26PM
I have Defenders. Great tire, good price. I don’t skimp on tires. There is often a $70 rebate or something when you buy four.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2019 04:27PM by Speedy.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Schpark
Date: July 24, 2019 04:45PM
Another vote for the Defender LTX M/S. I put a set on my Flex.



"Without death, life would lose much of its meaning. My goal is to live in such a manner that I alter world in some fundamental way before I'm gone. As I get older and watch my son grow I realize I've already achieved my goal." - Ztirffritz



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2019 04:46PM by Schpark.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: davester
Date: July 24, 2019 04:48PM
Quote
Gareth
Basically, T+H is a passenger car tire. LTX is a "light truck" tire. For a small crossover, the T+H probably makes more sense and would be more comfortable. I'd expect the LTX tire to be a bit stiffer.

I agree. Also, the M/S in the name indicates that it is a mud and snow tire. If you don't actually drive in mud and snow then you should not get an M/S tire since its design is compromised (by incorporating large void spaces and knobbier tread) to improve traction in those conditions at the expense of dry and wet pavement traction.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: pinkoos
Date: July 24, 2019 04:53PM
Thanks for the additional replies

What does "T + H" stand for in the tire name?
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 24, 2019 04:55PM
Quote
Mr645
Summer performance tires typically provide the best wet road grip.

It depends on the outside temperature and tire design/construction. If it's under 60 F, All-season tires will usually give much better wet performance. All-season M+S (three peak) usually will perform better under 45F. Getting 'summer performance tires' for a Crossover/SUV usually means getting larger rims and lower profile tires, which usually results in a harsher and noisier ride.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Gareth
Date: July 24, 2019 05:00PM
Quote
pinkoos
What does "T + H" stand for in the tire name?

Nothing that really matters? If I had to guess, "T" is either for "Touring" or "Total Performance". H is probably the speed rating, 130mph (which is listed with the sizes also).
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Yoyodyne ArtWorks
Date: July 24, 2019 05:05PM
We have Continental ExtremeSport DWS 06 UHP (Ultra High Performance) all season tires on our Golf and are very satisfied, smooth comfy ride and excellent traction in the wet. With a UHP tire you trade some tread longevity for traction but that was fine with me.



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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 24, 2019 05:21PM
Quote
pinkoos
What does "T + H" stand for in the tire name?

I would guess Towing and Highway applications.

Without seeing each one in person to look at the tread pattern and all the data on the sidewall, there are no apparent differences between T + H and LTX M/S based on the specs on the Costco site. The LTX M/S is not formally rated as a M+S (three peak) traction tire. There is a chance one of the tire technicians at Costco might know, or you could call/email Michelin.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: jdc
Date: July 24, 2019 07:43PM
Costco Defenders are OOS near me.

Tire rack say $206 each. Pilot Sport are $260. Ugh. Dont think I will need tires for awhile tho.



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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 24, 2019 08:11PM
an EXCELLENT, inexpensive option is Vredestein Quatrac. perhaps too aggressive if you are in Texas, as they are also meant to work in snow (listed as an "all weather" tire). but, the wet traction is insane. and, they are, as mentioned, kind of a bargain. got mine at TR.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: jdc
Date: July 24, 2019 08:42PM
TR rated the General AltiMAX RT43 (H- or V-Speed Rated) with exceptional wet weather performance

[www.tirerack.com]



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Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: July 24, 2019 08:51PM
Quote
jdc
TR rated the General AltiMAX RT43 (H- or V-Speed Rated) with exceptional wet weather performance

[www.tirerack.com]

I won't put Generals on my vehicle if you gave them to me. They wear terribly, ride rough and become very noisy after a couple of thousand miles.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Buzz
Date: July 24, 2019 09:36PM
We got our first couple of Lexuses (Lexii?) when they first came out, and they came with Goodyear Eagle GA tires that were engineered especially for Lexus. The handling, quiet noise level, and ride were excellent, but the original V rated tires had such soft rubber tread compound, that they sucked any screws or nails that were on the pavement within 100 yards of the cars, deep into the tread. A few years later, Lexus/Goodyear sent us something like $110 per tire because of "premature wear".... so we got over $1000 back. By then, I discovered that buying T rated tires, you got the same design and tread pattern, but the tread compound was a noticeably harder rubber. They lasted longer, and were slightly noisier, but the ride was comparable. I don't know if any tires since were designed especially for Lexus.
==
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Cary
Date: July 24, 2019 09:39PM
Quote
Yoyodyne ArtWorks
We have Continental ExtremeSport DWS 06 UHP (Ultra High Performance) all season tires on our Golf and are very satisfied, smooth comfy ride and excellent traction in the wet. With a UHP tire you trade some tread longevity for traction but that was fine with me.

Another vote for Continental DWS. Great tires.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 24, 2019 09:41PM
Quote
jdc
TR rated the General AltiMAX RT43 (H- or V-Speed Rated) with exceptional wet weather performance

[www.tirerack.com]

I have those on my other wagon. They are not a good as the Vredestein I mentioned
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: July 24, 2019 11:17PM
We wouldn't even put LTX's on our 2002 Tahoe Z71 4x4, too much of a heavy truck tire.
We went with Michelin Latitude Tours. Great ride, low noise, and we've towed up to 6000# behind it.

"Greater Confidence in Wet Conditions"
[www.michelinman.com]



Grateful11
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Article Accelerator
Date: July 25, 2019 01:01AM
Quote
Cary
Quote
Yoyodyne ArtWorks
We have Continental ExtremeSport DWS 06 UHP (Ultra High Performance) all season tires on our Golf and are very satisfied, smooth comfy ride and excellent traction in the wet. With a UHP tire you trade some tread longevity for traction but that was fine with me.

Another vote for Continental DWS. Great tires.

agree smiley
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Bernie
Date: July 25, 2019 07:32AM

Look around at what other people have on their vehicles.
Personally I run Firestone on everything these daze.

Michelin rubber turns brown. Yuck!




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Mr645
Date: July 26, 2019 07:45AM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
Mr645
Summer performance tires typically provide the best wet road grip.

It depends on the outside temperature and tire design/construction. If it's under 60 F, All-season tires will usually give much better wet performance. All-season M+S (three peak) usually will perform better under 45F. Getting 'summer performance tires' for a Crossover/SUV usually means getting larger rims and lower profile tires, which usually results in a harsher and noisier ride.

Yes, summer tires will start to loose grip below temps in the mid 40's. Although I drove my Cadillac with Michelin summer tires to Virginia and had one day where it was in the high 30's and in typically dry road driving noticed nothing unusual.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: pinkoos
Date: July 26, 2019 09:23AM
Thanks again for all of the replies

Leaning towards the Michelins for now...may wait to see if Costco does $70 off in the next few weeks
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 26, 2019 07:18PM
I scored my Defenders from Costco with $70 off, and a $60 Costco gift card for buying on my Costco Citi card.
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Re: Car Tire Question
Posted by: pinkoos
Date: September 04, 2019 09:51AM
Costco has $70 off a set of 4 Michelins along with $40 off installation, so went ahead and placed an order for the Defenders this morning

Thanks again to everyone for the help and advice
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