advertisement
Forums

The Forum is sponsored by 
 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the Tips and Deals forum
The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: Ken Sp.
Date: August 11, 2019 09:53AM
[evtv.me]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: sekker
Date: August 11, 2019 10:48AM
Wow. At one point 34% of tradeable shares were shorted. Over $9B ‘invested’ by short sellers.

No wonder the news is full of fake stories.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: August 11, 2019 10:51AM
That was ... something. Not sure what.

He started to lose me at the start, when talking about the car magazines that have always featured one model as "best" every year. History is littered with Car of the Year turkeys and lemons, because they are chosen for their hype that year. Got fond memories of your Chevy Citation?

The American car magazine with the largest subscription was conspicuously not mentioned because they don't work that way. Both in print and online, they focus only on what Musk/Tesla promises, and what gets delivered. Full stop. They also reported on the weird short-sell a year or so ago.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: Forrest
Date: August 11, 2019 11:06AM
I thought you were talking about Nikola Tesla - lots of conspiray theory's about Nikola also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2019 11:06AM by Forrest.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 11, 2019 11:52AM
Not seeing a conspiracy there.

Seeing a LOT of assumptions.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: dad@home
Date: August 11, 2019 12:55PM
So maybe i’ve drunk the kool-aid but the author isn’t wrong.

Four years ago I purchased a Model S85D and expected from all the news (Fake News?) that everything would go wrong.....but almost nothing has!

109,000 miles with no major breakdowns. I’ve had it in to be serviced twice (no oil changes needed ever) and once because a screw came loose on an arm rest.

Motor Trend and the other car mags are right (even Consumer Reports). This is the best car i’ve ever owned period and i’ve had plenty in 45 years of driving. I pay less than 10 cent per kWh for electricity and with free supercharging my energy costs for driving are less than 25% of a typical gas burner.

I think the conspiracy is real and I’ve never worn a tin-foil hat ever!



For some must watch, while some must sleep
So runs the world away
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: sekker
Date: August 11, 2019 01:17PM
I know a few Tesla owners - even some here in MN. Even the cold weather doesn’t ruin the range.

These are great cars.

The closest parallel I lived through was the iPhone. Every single phone company - and many others - scoffed at it.

Our next new car will be a Tesla. Might have to wait for a Model Y, but that’d be ok.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: August 11, 2019 02:16PM
I’m saving for a Tesla as well. Tesla occupies 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place on the podium simply because no one else is competing. Or even trying. It’s mind blowing that no other car maker has managed to make an EV yet that matches the seven year old 2013 Model S in range or performance. If you consider the typical development cycle for a new car is probably 36months, that means that the industry is, at a minimum, 4 years behind Tesla. I’d guess probably more like a decade behind. I’m not sure they can close that gap before going under.

This piece does contain a strong hint of tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy, but there’s enough smoke in enough places that I wouldn’t be surprised if some or all of it is true. Aside from Apple’s ascendancy following the iPod, can you think of any other businesses that are growing at >150% per year? People keep spewing nonsense about Tesla going under and drowning in debt. They do have debt but their revenue is more than enough to service, or at worst refinance that debt. When you have a product that sells 100% of the supply and demand commands a >100% supply growth curve, it’s a pretty compelling business. This angle explains quite a bit of the negative news. Most of it just doesn’t make sense if you know about Tesla. The company isn’t perfect, but they’ve thus far navigated a minefield of obstacles planted by the automotive and petrochemical industries, and mostly emerged unscathed. That’s commendable.



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 11, 2019 02:18PM
Quote
sekker
The closest parallel I lived through was the iPhone. Every single phone company - and many others - scoffed at it...

The first iPhones were expensive toys that couldn't even make a proper phone call and were chained to an obsolete cellular standard.

Early adopters didn't even have real apps.

It took 3 years to make a useful iPhone and even then it would have still been a toy without the App Store.

Teslas have a much better record.

But they do have problems managing their money; and they consistently fail safety inspections at their plants; and they've got very high turnover of employees; and they have no upgrade cycle in place for older models that are starting to look a little long-in-the-tooth and expensive as other companies catch up to the safety and gadget-tech; and Musk invites expensive lawsuits; and they've got a great deal of debt.

I own the stock and I'm not sure that it isn't trading a little high for all of that. Wouldn't be surprised if the car company part was spun off in 5 years so that the "real" heart of the company -- the battery and municipal power part -- doesn't get dragged down by it.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2019 02:19PM by Sarcany.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: dad@home
Date: August 11, 2019 02:45PM
Quote
Sarcany
......and they have no upgrade cycle in place for older models that are starting to look a little long-in-the-tooth ......

Wait ....What!
You mean other car makers offer upgrades? All these years with my Fords I’ve missed out. facepalm

On the other hand my Tesla gets OTA updates to its firmware every 2-4 weeks. New features show up and software bugs disappear.



For some must watch, while some must sleep
So runs the world away
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 11, 2019 03:05PM
Quote
dad@home
Quote
Sarcany
......and they have no upgrade cycle in place for older models that are starting to look a little long-in-the-tooth ......

Wait ....What!
You mean other car makers offer upgrades? All these years with my Fords I’ve missed out. facepalm

On the other hand my Tesla gets OTA updates to its firmware every 2-4 weeks. New features show up and software bugs disappear.

Don't be an idiot.

Most vehicles are on a 4-6 year upgrade cycle with major new features and design changes introduced periodically. These features/changes are usually introduced at car shows and reviewers get to test-drive the vehicles months in advance of sales to consumers to allow car shoppers to make intelligent informed choices.

Tesla introduced the Model S in 2012 and has made zero substantive changes. Firmware updates and critical bug fixes to keep the car from catching fire don't count.

They're late and it's costing them sales as buyers look to the cheaper Model 3, and to other luxury cars.

Result: Less profit. Less capital. Less value as a company. As a shareholder, I am concerned about this. As a fanboy, you should be concerned, too.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: dad@home
Date: August 11, 2019 03:34PM
Quote
Sarcany
Don't be an idiot.

Most vehicles are on a 4-6 year upgrade cycle with major new features and design changes introduced periodically. These features/changes are usually introduced at car shows and reviewers get to test-drive the vehicles months in advance of sales to consumers to allow car shoppers to make intelligent informed choices.

Tesla introduced the Model S in 2012 and has made zero substantive changes. Firmware updates and critical bug fixes to keep the car from catching fire don't count.

They're late and it's costing them sales as buyers look to the cheaper Model 3, and to other luxury cars.

Result: Less profit. Less capital. Less value as a company. As a shareholder, I am concerned about this. As a fanboy, you should be concerned, too.

Wow for a stockholder you sure don’t follow the product very well.
Hardware updates get introduced on a nearly weekly basis.
Perhaps you missed the introduction of the dual motors (all wheel drive), the parking sensors, the exterior update, the six or eight revisions of the battery pack, the introduction of performance mode, ludicrous mode and the recent Raven model update (using a permanent magnet synchronous front motor that increases range up to 370 miles).

You are not the only stockholder in this discussion and being poorly informed you shouldn’t be throwing around “idiot” lest it splash back on you.



For some must watch, while some must sleep
So runs the world away
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 11, 2019 03:50PM
>and institutions such as the Department of Justice, the State Department, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have been exposed as deeply corrupt rotten to the core partisan organizations infested with dishonesty and corruption

Sorry, was I supposed to keep reading after that?



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: jdc
Date: August 11, 2019 04:39PM
Quote
mattkime
>and institutions such as the Department of Justice, the State Department, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have been exposed as deeply corrupt rotten to the core partisan organizations infested with dishonesty and corruption

Sorry, was I supposed to keep reading after that?

funny/not funny, but I stopped before that.





----


Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 11, 2019 04:56PM
Quote
dad@home
Hardware updates get introduced on a nearly weekly basis.
Perhaps you missed the introduction of the dual motors (all wheel drive), the parking sensors, the exterior update, the six or eight revisions of the battery pack, the introduction of performance mode, ludicrous mode and the recent Raven model update (using a permanent magnet synchronous front motor that increases range up to 370 miles).

Minor incremental changes and late delivery of stuff promised for the first vehicle are not generational revisions.

At present, automotive experts do not expect a new Model S until 2022.

It's late.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2019 04:59PM by Sarcany.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: sekker
Date: August 11, 2019 09:15PM
Sarcany, I OWNED an original iPhone. Even with ALL of the limitations, it was STILL a far better device than anything on the market except the Blackberry. It's call limitations were overblown. Worked fine. The Edge data plan WAS slow, but I used it mostly on wifi for web browsing.

Think Roadster. The original iPhone proved the point, and Apple launched the far BETTER 3G and then their Model S the 3GS 3 years later, as you note. Took Android YEARS to catch the 3GS, and by then Apple had gone onto the Retina screen and survived disruptions like 'Antennagate'.

Within 10 years, nearly ALL phones are iPhones or their Android clones.

I sure WISH we were at a point where nearly ALL cars were electric and either Teslas or clones.

Will be another 20 years, I'm afraid.

EDIT: Why update the Model S? Sure, Tesla COULD do that - but it's not the point. The current S is STILL better than almost all other cars, and it's getting updates like hardware for full autopilot. I think it's still a striking car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2019 09:16PM by sekker.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: August 11, 2019 09:42PM
Tesla cars only indirectly compete with gas cars for being revised/updated. If you’re thinking of updates as being styling changes, that’s mostly busy work and change-for-change’s sake due to a direct competitor’s changed styling. No one really would look at a Model S and think it looks like an “old” car. If they ever get completion, they’ll surely change their appearance quicker, but it won’t be due to some inherent need.

Conventional cars must wait generationally for things such as seat changes, dashboard changes. I wouldn’t put it past Tesla to just swap that stuff out whenever they wanted.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 11, 2019 10:43PM
Quote
deckeda
No one really would look at a Model S and think it looks like an “old” car.

That's not the point. They're losing sales as the S ages. They admitted as much in the last earnings report.

And all the other things I've noted still stand.

Tesla stock is not underperforming at this time.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: GGD
Date: August 11, 2019 11:07PM
Quote
Sarcany
That's not the point. They're losing sales as the S ages. They admitted as much in the last earnings report.

I would imagine that some of that loss is going to Model 3 sales. They're now competing with themselves.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: sekker
Date: August 12, 2019 12:35AM
Quote
GGD
Quote
Sarcany
That's not the point. They're losing sales as the S ages. They admitted as much in the last earnings report.

I would imagine that some of that loss is going to Model 3 sales. They're now competing with themselves.

Yep, Innovators Dilemma.

But the Model S was just a step to the Model 3.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 13, 2019 04:10PM
The first iPhones were expensive toys that couldn't even make a proper phone call and were chained to an obsolete cellular standard.

Early adopters didn't even have real apps.

It took 3 years to make a useful iPhone and even then it would have still been a toy without the App Store.



Don't be an idiot.

No, I didn't have real apps.

I don't know how you define 'proper phone call' and don't give a rat's ass. I made plenty of phone calls with my Day One 'Phone. It was a far better experience that any Nokia, Motorola, or LG I had.

Surfing could be slow from time to time and was never reallyquick, but phone calls were always as good as I had with all my previous phones. And they got better as the carrier increased cell sites, all while having the same, original 'Phone.

Certainly the app store was a big deal, but even if it never came into existence, the first 'Phone would have still been a better experience that any other of those phones, assuming they didn't have app stores.

I never used a Blackberry, but many a BB user was impressed by the 'Phone.

That it got better over time, or for the cynics, needed time to get better, doesn't mean a thing to me. It was, again, always a better user experience and a marked improvement for me.

And really, that's all that matters.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men
except by believing all possible evil
of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: The Tesla Conspiracy-long, but informative read.
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: August 13, 2019 04:32PM
Quote
RAMd®d
It was, again, always a better user experience and a marked improvement for me.

From what you're describing, a DynaTAC would have been an improvement over whatever you were using.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 291
Record Number of Users: 52 on November 20, 2014
Record Number of Guests: 2330 on October 25, 2018