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Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 11:11AM
Yesterday evening I was working on a draft essay in Text (I use Text for drafts). I had left the file on the Desktop, where it defaulted when I started it on 25Sep, and added to it over the last few days.

This morning I discover that all the text has disappeared, except the first paragraph from 25Sep.

Text saves changes automatically, even if you close a document (I just tested to be sure). OK, I thought, maybe I accidentally selected and deleted all the text after the first paragraph. So I'll just go to Time Machine and recover the full version from last night. But all the Time Machine copies have nothing but the version from 25Sep!

That's all my nightly clone from 1:30 AM has, too.

I can't figure it out. Of course I shouldn't leave working files on the Desktop, as that folder isn't backed up on Dropbox (my third backup option for documents, where old versions are available for some time).

But why is all my work on that document since 25Sep missing from Time Machine? It was backing up every hour yesterday!

Aside from TM, I can't think of any way to recover last night's version of that file. If I did something even stupider than deleting my recent work when I closed the document, I can't think what it is. Any ideas?

/Mr Lynn



"Hillbilly at Harvard"
Honky-tonk Country and Bluegrass
Founded in 1948 by Pappy Ben Minnich
Saturdays 9am - 1pm Eastern
WHRB-FM, Cambridge, MA
Streaming at [www.WHRB.org]
Be there!

The HAH weblog: [hillbillyatharvard.wordpress.com]

Topical weblog: [walkingcreekworld.wordpress.com]

On the river in Saxonville.
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 09, 2019 11:24AM
Hunchy question: do you use iCloud Drive to manage your Desktop and/or Documents folders?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: Fred_Also
Date: October 09, 2019 11:32AM
Do you mean TextEdit? If TextEdit, mine stores it on Apple iCloud, I think by default.

Fred
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 11:38AM
Quote
rjmacs
Hunchy question: do you use iCloud Drive to manage your Desktop and/or Documents folders?

I just looked in iCloud settings. 'Desktop & Documents Folders' is not checked. Various apps are, including TextEdit (which is what I've been calling 'Text'—old habits die hard).

I don't know what that means. I don't even know how to access iCloud Drive. Doesn't show up in my Applications folder or Finder sidebar.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 11:41AM
Quote
Fred_Also
Do you mean TextEdit? If TextEdit, mine stores it on Apple iCloud, I think by default.

Fred

Yes, TextEdit. How would I access it in iCloud?

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: STL
Date: October 09, 2019 12:06PM
Have you tried to access previous versions saved automatically by TextEdit?
Load TextEdit with your current copy of the draft essay
Then follow the path below in TextEdit.
File > Revert To > Browse All versions . . .

[www.cultofmac.com]
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: October 09, 2019 12:06PM
I'd wait for another forum expert on iCloud documents to weigh in, but my hunch says that iCloud reverted your document to a previous version (reasons unknown), and you can't restore to what you'd added. Doesn't feel super hopeful to me. But that's intuition, not expertise.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: rich in distress
Date: October 09, 2019 12:15PM
I’m curious, have you tried having the document open, and then opening time machine?



• back to confinement


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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: 3d
Date: October 09, 2019 12:55PM
Quote
rich in distress
I’m curious, have you tried having the document open, and then opening time machine?

mrlynn, was that particular document ever closed since it was created on the 25th? It has just been open on your desktop for 2 weeks?
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 01:15PM
Quote
STL
Have you tried to access previous versions saved automatically by TextEdit?
Load TextEdit with your current copy of the draft essay
Then follow the path below in TextEdit.
File > Revert To > Browse All versions . . .

[www.cultofmac.com]

I didn't know TextEdit could do that.

Unfortunately, it only shows the one version from 25Sep. :-(

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 01:19PM
Quote
rich in distress
I’m curious, have you tried having the document open, and then opening time machine?

I hadn't, but just did. It worked just the same as the Browse All Versions command did: shows only the 25Sep version.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 01:22PM
Quote
3d
Quote
rich in distress
I’m curious, have you tried having the document open, and then opening time machine?

mrlynn, was that particular document ever closed since it was created on the 25th? It has just been open on your desktop for 2 weeks?

Yes, my custom is to close out of all documents and apps when I stop for the night. I might leave TextEdit and one or two apps running if there are no open files. I don't shut the computer down, as my clone backup runs at 1:30 AM.

/Mr Lynn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2019 01:25PM by mrlynn.
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: 3d
Date: October 09, 2019 01:31PM
You definitely CLOSED the file and not simply minimized it when you stop for the night?

Open a new TextEdit doc and do a Save. In the popup window, the default location is pointing to the Desktop? Not some weird random folder?
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 01:36PM
Quote
rjmacs
I'd wait for another forum expert on iCloud documents to weigh in, but my hunch says that iCloud reverted your document to a previous version (reasons unknown), and you can't restore to what you'd added. Doesn't feel super hopeful to me. But that's intuition, not expertise.

I was able to access iCloud Drive, and see that there is one document in there, a TextEdit one, actually: a copy of a MacResource post I made (from another computer) in 2018. Otherwise there seems to be nothing in there, which is what I'd expect, never having used it.

Can iCloud just muck around with my files if I have the app checked in Settings?

So far, aside from stupidly leaving a working file in my Desktop folder (which is backed up only by TM and SD! clone), I don't see what else I did wrong.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: October 09, 2019 01:36PM
Please run this in the Terminal and report the results:

tmutil listlocalsnapshots /

...For the time being, do not reboot your Mac.



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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: October 09, 2019 02:17PM
....DeLorean....with flux capacitor.....???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 02:42PM
Quote
Sarcany
Please run this in the Terminal and report the results:

tmutil listlocalsnapshots /

...For the time being, do not reboot your Mac.

Returns: " Unrecognized verb."

?? /Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: October 09, 2019 07:10PM
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Sarcany
Please run this in the Terminal and report the results:

tmutil listlocalsnapshots /

...For the time being, do not reboot your Mac.

Returns: " Unrecognized verb."

?? /Mr Lynn

Either you made an error when typing it out, or you're not running an OS that supports snapshots.

Sierra?

Sorry. Sometimes you can recover stuff from a APFS snapshot in High Sierra or Mojave.



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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 08:59PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
mrlynn
Quote
Sarcany
Please run this in the Terminal and report the results:

tmutil listlocalsnapshots /

...For the time being, do not reboot your Mac.

Returns: " Unrecognized verb."

?? /Mr Lynn

Either you made an error when typing it out, or you're not running an OS that supports snapshots.

Sierra?

Sorry. Sometimes you can recover stuff from a APFS snapshot in High Sierra or Mojave.

Sierra 10.12.6.

Any idea what could have happened to all the versions between 25Sep and yesterday? And why Time Machine doesn't see them? Isn't that what it's for?

I'm assuming that TextEdit was saving all the words I typed over the past two weeks.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: October 09, 2019 09:21PM
Quote
mrlynn
Any idea what could have happened to all the versions between 25Sep and yesterday? And why Time Machine doesn't see them? Isn't that what it's for?

I'm assuming that TextEdit was saving all the words I typed over the past two weeks.

Time Machine can only back up what's there.

From what you've said, it seems that you haven't been saving changes to the TextEdit doc.

There's one last place where it might be, but I wouldn't have high hopes for it. If TextEdit was autosaving then there might be a copy of the document here:

~/Library/Containers/com.apple.TextEdit/Data/Library/Autosave Information

Copy that path and then in the Finder type Command+Shift+G and paste it into the "Go to Folder" window.



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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 10:59PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
mrlynn
Any idea what could have happened to all the versions between 25Sep and yesterday? And why Time Machine doesn't see them? Isn't that what it's for?

I'm assuming that TextEdit was saving all the words I typed over the past two weeks.

Time Machine can only back up what's there.

From what you've said, it seems that you haven't been saving changes to the TextEdit doc.

There's one last place where it might be, but I wouldn't have high hopes for it. If TextEdit was autosaving then there might be a copy of the document here:

~/Library/Containers/com.apple.TextEdit/Data/Library/Autosave Information

Copy that path and then in the Finder type Command+Shift+G and paste it into the "Go to Folder" window.

Followed your instructions: no result.

So do we have to conclude that TextEdit was not Autosaving all this time? But it must have been: it allowed me to reopen the file after closing it for the night—until last night. What could have happened that wiped out all the previous Autosaved versions except the original on 25Sep—including the ones on Time Machine??

If this was caused by a bug, it could happen to others as well. Is it known?

I certainly won't trust Autosave any more.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 09, 2019 11:16PM
Quote
3d
You definitely CLOSED the file and not simply minimized it when you stop for the night?

Open a new TextEdit doc and do a Save. In the popup window, the default location is pointing to the Desktop? Not some weird random folder?

The Save command points to the last folder I had saved a TextEdit document to.

I thought about the random folder option, and tried searching on words in recent versions. No luck.

It's possible on some nights I left the document open, but I'm pretty sure on most nights I closed it.

I'm just stumped. And have not only lost faith in Autosave, but in Time Machine.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: October 10, 2019 12:06AM
Quote
mrlynn
So do we have to conclude that TextEdit was not Autosaving all this time? But it must have been: it allowed me to reopen the file after closing it for the night—until last night...

Did you actually SAVE the file before closing it, and then locate the file on your drive and re-open it the next day?

Or did you just quit TextEdit and the doc magically re-opened right where you left off?

The latter is not an autosave feature. It's just restoring your last session. This is a feature controlled by the General pref's in the System Preferences. It's toggled via the "Close Windows When Quitting Apps" setting. It's a troublesome feature because without using an autosave feature along with it, you risk getting into the habit of seeing your documents automatically re-open and don't realize that you can lose data just by closing a document.



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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 10, 2019 06:28AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
mrlynn
So do we have to conclude that TextEdit was not Autosaving all this time? But it must have been: it allowed me to reopen the file after closing it for the night—until last night...

Did you actually SAVE the file before closing it, and then locate the file on your drive and re-open it the next day?

Or did you just quit TextEdit and the doc magically re-opened right where you left off?

The latter is not an autosave feature. It's just restoring your last session. This is a feature controlled by the General pref's in the System Preferences. It's toggled via the "Close Windows When Quitting Apps" setting. It's a troublesome feature because without using an autosave feature along with it, you risk getting into the habit of seeing your documents automatically re-open and don't realize that you can lose data just by closing a document.

Sarcany, the document was given a title and saved on the 25 of September. Thereafter if it was open I usually closed it, but probably didn't bother to quit out of TextEdit. I didn't work on it much until this past weekend. I assumed TextEdit was autosaving the document. Why would it not be? A test document autosaves when I close, whether a I quit or not.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: October 10, 2019 07:13PM
Quote
mrlynn
I assumed TextEdit was autosaving the document. Why would it not be?

Have you ever seen an autosave feature explicitly listed in TextEdit's preferences?

It does autosave to the Autosave folder that I pointed to above, but only temp files as a hedge against a crash. It's not a true autosave. If you close a file without saving it then it purges the autosave folder and your work is gone.



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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: October 11, 2019 09:32AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
mrlynn
I assumed TextEdit was autosaving the document. Why would it not be?

Have you ever seen an autosave feature explicitly listed in TextEdit's preferences?

It does autosave to the Autosave folder that I pointed to above, but only temp files as a hedge against a crash. It's not a true autosave. If you close a file without saving it then it purges the autosave folder and your work is gone.

Apple's TextEdit tutorial says,

Quote

TextEdit automatically saves your documents as you work on them. If you want, you can save a document to name it, save it in a certain location, or save a particular version.
[support.apple.com]

If you're right, that "It's not a true autosave," then someone should tell Apple to alert users.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Lost Document—Amateur Bonehead Error, Or. . .?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: October 11, 2019 06:29PM
Quote
mrlynn
Apple's TextEdit tutorial says,

Quote

TextEdit automatically saves your documents as you work on them. If you want, you can save a document to name it, save it in a certain location, or save a particular version.
[support.apple.com]

If you're right, that "It's not a true autosave," then someone should tell Apple to alert users.

/Mr Lynn

It's not a true autosave. This is what I meant when I wrote "It's a troublesome feature..."

It's deceitful and confusing.



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