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COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: October 29, 2019 06:10PM
COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION IN FIRST RULING OF ITS KIND IN STATE

The Oregon Court of Appeals made a first-of-its-kind ruling in the state on Wednesday when it affirmed a lower court's decision that the forced disclosure of a defendant's phone passcode was not a violation of her Fifth Amendment rights.

Catrice Pittman crashed her car into a tree in June 2016, leaving an adult friend and five children, ages 2 to 10, with wounds that included internal injuries and broken bones. According to the prosecution, she admitted to using meth that night, The Oregonian reported.

Pittman pleaded guilty to driving under the influence of intoxicants and five counts of second- and third-degree assault. Another charge that the prosecution had been pursuing and hoping to reinforce with evidence from Pittman's iPhone was that she was allegedly dealing methamphetamine. That charge was later dismissed.

A Marion County judge sided with police and prosecutors by ordering Pittman to enter her passcode, and on Wednesday, the Oregon Court of Appeals agreed with that ruling.

Her defense attorney argued forcing her to do so would violate her rights against self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and Article 1 Section 12 of the Oregon Constitution.

But the Court of Appeals ruled that because police already had good reason to believe the phone was hers given its location in her purse, the fact that she knew its passcode was already a "foregone conclusion." In other words, she could be compelled to cooperate as an exception to her constitutional rights.

The "foregone conclusion" standard keeps cropping up in cases like these. It allows prosecutors to bypass Fifth Amendment protections if the government can show that it knows that the defendant knows the passcode to unlock a device.

In the age of increasing encryption, courts have been asked to order suspects to give up their fingerprints, face scans and passwords to unlock phones that could lead to make-or-break evidence in a case.

The Oregon Court of Appeals ruling that Pittman's cellphone password disclosure would be upheld was the first time an appeals court in Oregon has ruled on this issue.


[www.newsweek.com]


This is the first time for the Oregon courts but not nationwide. Some appellate courts affirm the lower courts' ruling, some don't.

Eventually SCOTUS will hear an appeal, and there will be a definitive ruling. A pool should be started.

But as long as you're innocent you have nothing to hide, and no worries.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: October 29, 2019 06:50PM
It was already decided in the First Amendment that the government can’t compel speech. What is there to be gained at this point from the phone, if the dealing charges were dropped and the person already confessed to DUI and assault? They are dismantling the Constitution for nothing.

The ‘foregone conclusion’ doctrine sucks, as the logic that someone necessarily knows something about items in their possession isn’t sound; I’ve carried other people’s electronics for them and not once known their passcode. If someone wanted you to go away for a while, they could just plant a phone on you, and, based on this faulty assumption, you might be indefinitely punished—à la the Inquisition.



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: Bernie
Date: October 29, 2019 06:57PM
Even if the phone was bought by and on a service plan paid by......
The password would be self incrimination and none of your durn beeswax.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: MikeF
Date: October 29, 2019 07:24PM
1. If in the purse, they find a closed little black book (no security) with a bunch of illegal dealings potentially within -- do they have the right to look in it?

2. If in the purse, they find a personal diary with a rudimentary diary lock (that requires a key) that potentially could contain illegal dealings -- do they have the right to look in it (by demanding the key or forcing it open)?

3. If in the purse, they find the keys to a house, do they have the right to look in the house? Or storage locker or safety deposit box?

What requires an additional warrant? I think that is what the Supreme Court needs to decide.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: October 29, 2019 07:29PM
Quote
RAMd®d
But as long as you're innocent you have nothing to hide, and no worries.

That's hasn't worked for anyone who was wrongly convicted.




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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 29, 2019 07:41PM
“I don’t recall. I must have incurred some memory loss from the accident.”



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2019 07:42PM by Speedy.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: October 29, 2019 08:27PM
next stop, US District Court for Oregon, then the 9th Circuit if needed.
SCOTUS is quite a few steps away for this case.



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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 29, 2019 10:13PM
Quote
MikeF
1. If in the purse, they find a closed little black book (no security) with a bunch of illegal dealings potentially within -- do they have the right to look in it?

2. If in the purse, they find a personal diary with a rudimentary diary lock (that requires a key) that potentially could contain illegal dealings -- do they have the right to look in it (by demanding the key or forcing it open)?

3. If in the purse, they find the keys to a house, do they have the right to look in the house? Or storage locker or safety deposit box?

What requires an additional warrant? I think that is what the Supreme Court needs to decide.

Yes to all of the above. The police are free to investigate but you have the right not to assist them.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: October 30, 2019 03:47AM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
MikeF
1. If in the purse, they find a closed little black book (no security) with a bunch of illegal dealings potentially within -- do they have the right to look in it?

2. If in the purse, they find a personal diary with a rudimentary diary lock (that requires a key) that potentially could contain illegal dealings -- do they have the right to look in it (by demanding the key or forcing it open)?

3. If in the purse, they find the keys to a house, do they have the right to look in the house? Or storage locker or safety deposit box?

What requires an additional warrant? I think that is what the Supreme Court needs to decide.

Yes to all of the above. The police are free to investigate but you have the right not to assist them.



#3 would require a search warrant. I am not sure about #1 or #2



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: wowzer
Date: October 30, 2019 04:14AM
I don’t agree w the court. The 5th should be absolute. Ridiculous how that court views the Constitution. The Bill of Rights was essential for the ratification of the Constiutuion because these basic rights are essential to a democratic republic.



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: October 30, 2019 04:34AM
That's hasn't worked for anyone who was wrongly convicted.

No s, S.


The police are free to investigate but you have the right not to assist them.

Obviously, that's no longer universally accurate.



SCOTUS is quite a few steps away for this case.


Irrelevant.

It, or a case just like it will get there, eventually.

Will the court hear it?

I'm sure it will.

It's how they'll rule that concerns me.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: October 30, 2019 08:15AM
If the evidence is in the house the police get a warrant to search the house. If the evidence is in your car the police get a warrant to search the car. (There are some exceptions related to safety and probable cause) if they want to search her phone they need a warrant. She doesn’t have to provide the keys to her house or her car. The same holds for the phone. They are welcome to search it with a warrant. If they can’t access it, well that’s their problem. Find a way in. It’s no different from greeting her at the door and asking to be allowed to search her home. She can let them in or return with a warrant. If they return with a warrant they can break the front door down if necessary.



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2019 08:16AM by ztirffritz.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: mikebw
Date: October 30, 2019 09:24AM
And what if the data they want to find it not even on the phone, but hosted in the cloud? She cannot give them access to someone else's servers, right?
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: October 30, 2019 09:41AM
Doubtful it survives the first appeal in federal court.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: Bernie
Date: October 30, 2019 10:13AM
I will take contempt of court over password entrapment if I were

ya know

Protecting something of value.




Staunton, Virginia
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: wowzer
Date: October 30, 2019 10:22AM
Quote
Bernie
I will take contempt of court over password entrapment if I were

ya know

Protecting something of value.

Even, if I weren’t, I’d still choose to challenge this ruling.



All I ever really needed to know, I learned from watching Star Trek.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: 3d
Date: October 30, 2019 10:44AM
I can see a market for development of a Panic Password App
A specific code to instantly brick a phone. Could also be the thumb print from your non-dominant hand. Or a facial scan with a wink. Etc.

"While panic passwords are currently used in home security systems to trip a silent alarm, they could also find application online. As important services and sensitive data congregate online, attackers have an increasing incentive to obtain the passwords that protect these services and data. Panic passwords are a mechanism to allow a user to use a special type of password to signal to the server that her password is being entered as the product of a coercive action. "
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: freeradical
Date: October 30, 2019 01:01PM
Quote
3d
I can see a market for development of a Panic Password App

Yep, unlocking a phone with biometrics means that the man can force you to unlock a phone.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: mikebw
Date: October 30, 2019 02:01PM
Quote
freeradical
Quote
3d
I can see a market for development of a Panic Password App

Yep, unlocking a phone with biometrics means that the man can force you to unlock a phone.

One approach could be to restart your device, after which you are required to use a PIN to unlock it before biometrics will work. Say you forgot your PIN, then there is no way to use your fingerprint / face / other to access the device.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: October 30, 2019 02:22PM
Maybe Apple will create a setting control to enable a once and done wipe pin.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: October 30, 2019 03:10PM
If you knew the innards of the phone, you should be able to do something like put a nail through the RAM and prevent anything from being recovered. If the Cloud uploads required decryption by a key in the phones RAM, they would also be protected by the destruction of the RAM.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: October 30, 2019 06:14PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
If you knew the innards of the phone, you should be able to do something like put a nail through the RAM and prevent anything from being recovered. If the Cloud uploads required decryption by a key in the phones RAM, they would also be protected by the destruction of the RAM.

If you have the phone, you could probably wipe it in settings faster than you could put a nail in the proper place. I wonder if you could create a shortcut to "Erase All Content and Settings."

Other option would be to have a power source that you could plug into the lightning port and fry the phone.
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: vision63
Date: October 30, 2019 11:25PM
Quote
Ombligo
Quote
Speedy
Quote
MikeF
1. If in the purse, they find a closed little black book (no security) with a bunch of illegal dealings potentially within -- do they have the right to look in it?

2. If in the purse, they find a personal diary with a rudimentary diary lock (that requires a key) that potentially could contain illegal dealings -- do they have the right to look in it (by demanding the key or forcing it open)?

3. If in the purse, they find the keys to a house, do they have the right to look in the house? Or storage locker or safety deposit box?

What requires an additional warrant? I think that is what the Supreme Court needs to decide.

Yes to all of the above. The police are free to investigate but you have the right not to assist them.



#3 would require a search warrant. I am not sure about #1 or #2

They would have to demonstrate probable cause in all of those circumstances. But, to MAKE you supply information is insane. Why would I incriminate myself?
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Re: COURT RULES DEFENDANT MUST DISCLOSE PHONE PASSWORD TO POLICE AND PROSECUTION
Posted by: Bernie
Date: October 31, 2019 05:18AM
Quote
macphanatic

If you have the phone, you could probably wipe it in settings faster than you could put a nail in the proper place. I wonder if you could create a shortcut to "Erase All Content and Settings."

Other option would be to have a power source that you could plug into the lightning port and fry the phone.

agree smiley
How about a detonator on the phone battery that is triggered by the thing that's hanging off the key fob.






Staunton, Virginia



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2019 05:23AM by Bernie.
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