advertisement
Forums

The Forum is sponsored by 
 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the Tips and Deals forum
Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 08, 2019 09:23AM
The teacher never contacted us. We have a fundamental problem with that, full stop.

My kid and another got the same score on a test, high 90s. They missed the same answers “in the same way.” Presumably those were written answers? Otherwise how would they be “same way?” I’ll find out.

My kid has straight A’s in all classes and her teacher told her she believes she earned her high marks on the test in question. But because the other kid got the same result she also thinks my kid provided the other access somehow. They sit near each other.

The penalty is for both to re-take the test tomorrow. We’re going to talk to the teacher tomorrow if possible.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 08, 2019 09:28AM
Eh, this does not sound like a problem for your straight A student. Hold tight tiger parent.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: December 08, 2019 09:57AM
Yup. These are lessons that every kid needs to go through. The teacher is right to let kids know that cheating will not be tolerated. If your daughter is smart, she will show up with a smile, retake the test and ace it. If the nearby friend does the same, so be it.

Long term, no child will ever benefit from lawnmower parents. If you go in and challenge the teacher on something like this, you will be giving permission for every other parent to do the same for every move the teacher makes.

I spent 32 years in front of a classroom. Lawnmowers contributed to my early quitirement.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: davester
Date: December 08, 2019 10:16AM
Sounds like an appropriate (or perhaps insufficiently stringent) decision by the teacher. Personally I would have given them both Fs (I actually did that for plagiarism in a university course). I'm actually surprised that there are no consequences other than retaking the test. I can assure you that no teacher likes to discover or dish out punishment for cheating. Also, why would you expect the teacher to contact you? He/she probably expected or required the student to fess up to you. My advice...back off and let the teacher do his/her job.

Also, you haven't told us how old the kids are. Are we talking grade school or high school here? This would provide context for understanding their level of maturity in understanding the right and wrong of cheating.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2019 10:19AM by davester.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 08, 2019 10:21AM
Well, as a parent who has had to go through similar "bad teacher communication" experiences, I am not sure anything the OP said is being unreasonable. If one expects such a serious allegation to be dealt with without contact, I can only guess that one has never had to deal with it directly. And, yes, parents can be unreasonable, and arrogant, and ridiculous in all the ways one can imagine, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Perhaps the teacher doesn't understand the OP's interest in his child's education, I'll give the teacher the benefit of the doubt with regard to that, as there are many parents who would not care. But this is not a case of helicopter parenting, not sure how that can be concluded from the above.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: space-time
Date: December 08, 2019 10:46AM
A lot of parent-teacher conflicts come from the fact that most people think their child is better than average. The same way most of us think we are better than average driver. and so on.

No one wants to admit they are below average in anything. Not even dick sizes.

So, if the other kid is also a straight A student, it is very likely that both kids took the test fairly and happened to make the same error. Then the teacher is wrong.

But if the other kid is usually a C level student and now got a 90% score, then something is suspicious.

Anyway, if this is the first incident with this teacher, don't make a big deal out of it. Let the teacher and kids solve their problems.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: December 08, 2019 11:00AM
.....same thing happening to Justin Timberlake......he just publicly apologized for 'not cheating'.......on Jessica Biel....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 08, 2019 11:40AM
Quote
mattkime
Eh, this does not sound like a problem for your straight A student. Hold tight tiger parent.

Agreed. The teacher knows what’s going on, the penalty is mild and your child will learn to become a more clever cheater.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: space-time
Date: December 08, 2019 12:36PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
mattkime
Eh, this does not sound like a problem for your straight A student. Hold tight tiger parent.

Agreed. The teacher knows what’s going on, the penalty is mild and your child will learn to become a more clever cheater.

smiley-laughing001
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade and cheated.
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: December 08, 2019 03:06PM
Fixed that for you.

Your subject line implies that she could not have earned her grade if she cheated, that somehow earning and cheating are mutually exclusive.


They missed the same answers “in the same way.”

This probably isn't the teacher's first rodeo.

How many answers were missed, and what is 'the same way'.



So, if the other kid is also a straight A student, it is very likely that both kids took the test fairly and happened to make the same error.

Very likely? That's hardly likely. A possibility, granted. Very likely, not so much. But yes, if it is mere freaky coincidence and the teacher overreacted, then yes, she is wrong.


I am not sure anything the OP said is being unreasonable. If one expects such a serious allegation to be dealt with without contact, I can only guess that one has never had to deal with it directly.

Agreed.

To imply or actually allege cheating should require some contact with the parents.



The penalty is for both to re-take the test tomorrow.

That's hardly a penalty.

It may opportunity to demonstrate your kid's innocence.

Of course, that only happens if the other kid does well.

Certainly similar questions will be (or should be) on the test.


The teacher knows what’s going on, the penalty is mild and your child will learn to become a more clever cheater.

All the better to integrate into society when it becomes time to graduate from fudge to fledge.

It's the American Dream.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: December 08, 2019 04:11PM
For those saying that the teacher should have contacted the parent, you are wrong. The kid should have been responsible for fessing up to the parent. If the kid did not fess up to the parent and the parent found out some other way (like online grades) - that is an issue for the kid and parent to resolve.

Having been a teacher for 32 years, there is plenty of stuff to do besides spending time on the phone trying to contact parents. You've got the parents that just never answer their phones, especially if it is a school number. You've got the kids that erase the messages from the home answering machine, or their parents cell phone. You've got the kid that erases emails sent from school. You've got the kid that logs in and changes their parents password in the online grade system so their parent can no longer log in.
I have seen it all.

Communication between the student and the parent when there is an issue in school falls primarily on the student. If you're not enforcing that as a parent - you are not doing your job. It's time to buck up instead of passing the buck.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: December 08, 2019 05:20PM
Markintosh is correct.

I limit direct parent contact to students who are failing or classroom discipline issues that I have not resolved myself, but have not risen to administration level.

First time cheating on a classroom test is not either of those. Cheating a second time, or on a final will get a call home, and possibly a request for a parent conference

Otherwise, my home contact is a group email. Calling parents individually is not realistic due to time restraints (180 students at 1 minute each is 3 hours of calls). Obviously, if a parent calls me, I'll return the call.

Interesting is that students who cheat often know the material better than those who don't. They have spent so much time getting their cheat in order, that they learned what was desired. Even then, going forward it is becoming increasingly difficult to cheat as testing moves online and answers can be evaluated by programs like Caveon looking at patterns among students sitting in proximity to each other.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: August West
Date: December 08, 2019 05:24PM
Depending on the age, I don't think it's unreasonable to hope a teacher would send a note home with the kid when life's lessons are involved. All told, word got home. See how it unfolds and let the teacher go with their instinct.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: December 08, 2019 05:44PM
Quote
August West
Depending on the age, I don't think it's unreasonable to hope a teacher would send a note home with the kid when life's lessons are involved. All told, word got home. See how it unfolds and let the teacher go with their instinct.

In my last year of teaching, I saw approximately 200 kids a day. I had a 35 minute lunch "break" and 5 minutes between each class to go to the bathroom and prep for a new subject.

Let's say that in an average day only 3 percent of my kids had failing grades or a discipline issue. When am I supposed to write those 6 notes? A good teacher is never turning their backs on kids, or sitting at their desk while kids work independently.

Keep in mind I also have to deal with the parents that made contact wanting two weeks of assignments so your kid can go to Disneyland, or need to retake 5 tests so they are eligible for basketball, or that want you to teach them the lesson over the phone so they can "help my kid".

Parents need to talk to their kid each day about school...something more than "How was your day?"



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: August West
Date: December 08, 2019 05:49PM
Then I'm happy you were able to retire. Sorry to dredge up clearly painful memories. I imagine talking with parents at any time for any reason would be too much of a burden with a schedule like that.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: December 08, 2019 06:00PM
Quote
August West
Then I'm happy you were able to retire. Sorry to dredge up clearly painful memories. I imagine talking with parents at any time for any reason would be too much of a burden with a schedule like that.

Nope. Talking to a parent is just fine, at the right time and place. Parent teacher conferences that are scheduled ahead of time when my school made time available are great. At any time when it really was something that warranted teacher intervention such as bullying, depression, willful failure is also a good time for me to pick up the phone. There are plenty of great reasons to talk to parents or communicate in writing.

But allowing a parent to pass the buck rather than communicate with their own child...not my priority.

Message to all of you out there...if you have not been a teacher, please just be quiet.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2019 06:35PM by Markintosh.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 08, 2019 07:05PM
When our kids screw up in school or come home bitching about things we are quick to let them know we support the school and their teachers first, and whatever the hell they're whining about a distant second. Part of life is learning to deal with unfairness, or whatever you feel is unfairness.

But calling my kid a cheat without proof crosses a line.

The responses above that assumed my kid actually did give her answers to her friend and that the student and teacher should "just work it out" somehow are curious at best. We'll find out tomorrow if there's such a thing as coincidence.

Meantime, this son of two former teachers takes cheating of any kind as serious. If my kid cheated give her an "F." My take on this is that the teacher is suspicious but lacks proof, and so there's this half-measure that somehow absolves her of having to have proof and without giving anyone an "F." Gosh, that sure does sound easy!

And so my kid, who the teacher has already told her she feels earned the good grade, is being asked to take the test again, because somehow the good grade is meaningless. What sort of clusterfuckery is that?

There's certainly a life lesson here but I don't think it's for either of the students involved.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: Janit
Date: December 08, 2019 08:50PM
Were the answers word-for-word identical, or did they simply share the same misconceptions?

There are many possible benign reasons for a shared misconception. Did the two students ever study together, or discuss the course material together, or with other students? Was there something in the teacher's presentation of certain topics that could lead to such common misconceptions or misunderstandings?

Presumably your daughter told you about this. What did she have to say about the circumstances?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 08, 2019 08:59PM
What if they both retake the test and make exactly the same mistakes again? But this time under the teacher's watchful eye?

Is anyone worrying about that??



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: GGD
Date: December 08, 2019 10:33PM
Quote
Janit
did they simply share the same misconceptions?

We've had several threads on this forum where large numbers of people had the same misconceptions, like the Monty Hall problem for example.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: August West
Date: December 08, 2019 10:49PM
Quote
Markintosh
Quote
August West
Then I'm happy you were able to retire. Sorry to dredge up clearly painful memories. I imagine talking with parents at any time for any reason would be too much of a burden with a schedule like that.

Nope. Talking to a parent is just fine, at the right time and place. Parent teacher conferences that are scheduled ahead of time when my school made time available are great. At any time when it really was something that warranted teacher intervention such as bullying, depression, willful failure is also a good time for me to pick up the phone. There are plenty of great reasons to talk to parents or communicate in writing.

But allowing a parent to pass the buck rather than communicate with their own child...not my priority.

Message to all of you out there...if you have not been a teacher, please just be quiet.


Heh, you remind me of some of the teachers I had.



Picasso in his studio after the liberation of Paris, taken by my friend and mentor.

Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade and cheated.
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: December 08, 2019 10:58PM
But allowing a parent to pass the buck rather than communicate with their own child...not my priority.

Now who's making an assumption.

Not for nothing, but kid's do lie, on rare occasion.

'How was school today? Anything going on?'

'No, nothing. I'm going out now'.


The responses above that assumed my kid actually did give her answers to her friend and that the student and teacher should "just work it out" somehow are curious at best.

There are two separate issues in that. Did the daughter cheat, and how should the teacher handle it?

I've allowed as how the teacher may have probably cause. And I also agree that as a life lesson, something generally based on parents' involvement in there children's lives, suspected cheating does rise to the level of meriting a call from the teacher.


What if they both retake the test and make exactly the same mistakes again? But this time under the teacher's watchful eye?

Is anyone worrying about that??



What, ME worry?

What's to worry. I saw Stand and Deliver.

Different test, different questions, closely proctored...

If they make exactly the same mistakes, they can invoke the Edward James Olmos defense and the teacher becomes the student.

Or they can retake the test a second time, in different rooms, in portable Faraday cages.

Or Teach can call the DoD or DARPA, and have them taken to Area 51 or NV Skunk Works.

But what if Daughter, a straight A student passes handily, and the other one augers in?

To be fair, we're all just guessing based on almost no information because deck has almost no information, or we're just not privy to it.

Whatever the outcome, I'm on record saying it's still too early to burn anybody at the stake.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 09, 2019 08:33AM
We spoke to the principal before classes started, who agreed there must be proof of cheating in order to compel a re-do of the test. And if so, the original test is a 0. We told him we support our kid getting a zero if she gave answers to her friend.

Both kids got a 98%. Test was multiple choice. They missed the same lone answer. The teacher didn’t approach either student until a after she had graded both tests.

He’s going to talk to the teacher and either he or the teacher will get back to us today.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 09, 2019 08:45AM
How does the result differ from having left the situation alone?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 09, 2019 09:09AM
What result? Nothing’s happened yet.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 09, 2019 09:10AM
My kid is either exonerated or has to re-take the rest and considered to be someone who helps people cheat. I don’t see those as terribly similar outcomes, right?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 09, 2019 09:11AM
Quote
mattkime
How does the result differ from having left the situation alone?

What if the teacher is wrong? Should an allegation of cheating go unchallenged?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: December 09, 2019 10:02AM
Quote
deckeda

Both kids got a 98%. Test was multiple choice. They missed the same lone answer. The teacher didn’t approach either student until a after she had graded both tests.

Well that is a horse of a different color, now that we have more to the story.

If each kid just missed just that one question, then the more likely scenario is that the test question was poorly written and there was something misleading or ambiguous regarding the answer. As a teacher in that scenario, if I thought that was the case in hindsight, I would have thrown out that question for everybody.

So unless there is more reason to believe there was cheating, given the new information, Deckeda was probably right to question it...assuming the kid questioned it first in the most polite way with a big endearing smile.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: December 09, 2019 10:05AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
mattkime
How does the result differ from having left the situation alone?

What if the teacher is wrong? Should an allegation of cheating go unchallenged?

What is the consequence of said allegation?



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 09, 2019 10:15AM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
mattkime
How does the result differ from having left the situation alone?

What if the teacher is wrong? Should an allegation of cheating go unchallenged?

What is the consequence of said allegation?

That someone who did not cheat would be accused of cheating. Since this is not a court of law, the challenge is from the student, the parent and possibly the administration.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: December 09, 2019 11:31AM
....how can they jump to 'cheating' on a multiple choice test......???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 09, 2019 04:03PM
Quote
deckeda
We spoke to the principal before classes started, who agreed there must be proof of cheating in order to compel a re-do of the test. And if so, the original test is a 0. We told him we support our kid getting a zero if she gave answers to her friend.

Both kids got a 98%. Test was multiple choice. They missed the same lone answer. The teacher didn’t approach either student until a after she had graded both tests.

He’s going to talk to the teacher and either he or the teacher will get back to us today.

No one called me. [Edit. I was reminded by my wife they were only going to call if there was a problem/discrepancy.]

I saw my kid at BB practice for an update. She was called to speak to the principal and asked what happened. She said the same thing that she told the teacher on Friday and us this weekend, that she did not let her friend see her answers.

In class, her teacher said she didn’t have to retake the test and that she “never” thought she’d done anything wrong. WTF.

(Her friend still has to retake it.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2019 04:19PM by deckeda.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: December 09, 2019 04:33PM
oh, well, kind of sucks but in a "could have been much worse" sort of way. there's some lesson here, I suppose, but outside of your kid knowing that she was trusted by her parents, I guess I don't know.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: December 09, 2019 05:52PM
Quote
deckeda
Quote
deckeda
We spoke to the principal before classes started, who agreed there must be proof of cheating in order to compel a re-do of the test. And if so, the original test is a 0. We told him we support our kid getting a zero if she gave answers to her friend.

Both kids got a 98%. Test was multiple choice. They missed the same lone answer. The teacher didn’t approach either student until a after she had graded both tests.

He’s going to talk to the teacher and either he or the teacher will get back to us today.

No one called me. [Edit. I was reminded by my wife they were only going to call if there was a problem/discrepancy.]

I saw my kid at BB practice for an update. She was called to speak to the principal and asked what happened. She said the same thing that she told the teacher on Friday and us this weekend, that she did not let her friend see her answers.

In class, her teacher said she didn’t have to retake the test and that she “never” thought she’d done anything wrong. WTF.

(Her friend still has to retake it.)

I bet her friend is not usually in the 98% range when testing. If a kid that is normally a C student all of a sudden gets an A and missed the exact same question the kid next to them did it is either an almost impossibly gigantic coincidence or more likely that they were cheating. Who knows if your kid even noticed they were cheating or not in that case.



C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: bfd
Date: December 09, 2019 05:53PM
School Daze
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Huh? Teacher says my kid earned her grade yet still cheated.
Posted by: deckeda
Date: December 09, 2019 06:42PM
It could have raised suspicion. The other kid’s not as smart. But who knows if she cheated?

Talked to my father in law this morning. Former teacher and principal here. Told a story of a football star who cheated the ACT and he knew it. Or knew of it. Copied answers from the two smartest in class next to him.

Footballer got a full ride to a smaller collage not far from here. Coach said he’d play him as a freshmen to start. He was that good. My father in law told the kid he’d only play one season at best.

“Why?”

“Because your grades always catch up with you.”

First year they Red-shirted him. Second year, well ...
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 109
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 2330 on October 25, 2018