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Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: January 01, 2020 08:17PM
I usually glaze over this amount. I know it is obscene. My daughter aged out for being on my family plan, so it is not needed anymore. However, when open enrollment came up, we were dealing with my wife's concussion, she couldn't focus, then her mother's funeral. Was not a good time to even think about her getting single coverage at her job, and me switch to single on mine. Although we have a decent BCBS plan, it is still expensive. Also, because my wife chooses MY insurance, not from her own work, I pay a $25 premium surcharge every week.
Normally, I just look at the bottom line deposited, and company savings plan, IRA payments, etc.

So what did I pay in 2019 for health insurance?

$8,073.27

Dave



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: January 01, 2020 08:38PM
Sounds about right. Maybe even a little low.

My company pays about $670/month for a single under the group plan.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2020 08:39PM by Sarcany.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: rgG
Date: January 01, 2020 08:43PM
Damn, that is high for an employer plan.
I went back to work full time last year, just so I could get on my employer’s health plan.
I only pay for myself though, as my husband is already on Medicare and he pays for his own Medicare supplement plan.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: JPK
Date: January 01, 2020 08:44PM
Wait till you see how much "free" healthcare will cost you!

JPK
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: January 01, 2020 08:57PM
About what mine is.

Assuming it is not shut down, I can go on Medicare in a few years.



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: space-time
Date: January 01, 2020 09:01PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
...
Assuming it is not shut down, I can go on Medicare in a few years.

how does Medicare work???
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: January 01, 2020 09:15PM
Quote
space-time
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
...Assuming it is not shut down, I can go on Medicare in a few years.

how does Medicare work???

Good question. If you worked at a job that paid Medicare taxes for 10 years, Part A is mostly free and you might need to pay something for part B, and then enroll in a Part C plan to get full coverage. Each "Part" represents a different sector of the medical industry. Not all doctors or hospitals take Medicare patients.



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Gilbert
Date: January 01, 2020 09:20PM
Mine came to $1,608 for the year. That was for me, my spouse and our five kids with medical, dental and vision. We pay approximately 10% of the total cost, which is a great benefit. The weekly cost with my previous employer is about the same I pay per month now. Even though my annual salary is less than my previous job, my take home pay increased.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: davester
Date: January 01, 2020 09:37PM
Mine was $2424 employee contribution + $11,878 employer contribution for my wife and I. That doesn't include dental or vision, which is about another $1,500 employer contribution.

My english relatives are aghast at the US health non-system and the ridiculous amounts of money we get fleeced with here for mediocre care.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Rolando
Date: January 01, 2020 10:01PM
$1556 for me solo, my wife is covering herself and the kids. The employer portion is allegedly $4915.

Most large companies are actually self insured, with the Insurance Company managing it.

[trentcotney.com]



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: January 01, 2020 10:11PM
Holy smokes you all have it cheap. My wife's current plan is $16K and some change per year to cover two of us. Her employee covers $10K. It includes minimal dental and vision.

Even with that we have a $3k per person/$6k family deductible each year.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2020 10:12PM by Markintosh.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: January 01, 2020 11:01PM
Single coverage for me was $1950, the employer's coverage portion was $6240. Then a $3000 deductible before it will pay anything. No dental or eye coverage. We do have a clinic to go to that offers free care and prescriptions

When the wife and I retire in a few years, we'll be looking at paying at least $16k/yr in premiums plus the $3000 deductible and a 10% copay. That will last for three years until I get to medicare, put her half will be for seven years. I guess those are called the golden years because the insurance companies can buy gold.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2020 10:26AM by Ombligo.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: January 01, 2020 11:39PM
My employer pays 100% of the HMO medical premium for single employees with no children... which I am. Thus, I only pay for my dental and vision coverage.

I paid a grand total of $1600 last year for full health coverage through Kaiser.



It is what it is.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: MrNoBody
Date: January 02, 2020 05:47AM
Quote
JPK
Wait till you see how much "free" healthcare will cost you!
JPK

Yeah, ACA was just a preview...

pre-ACA I paid $1664/yr single for good corp. plan with $20 co-pay, $60 referrals,
and generic rX was $20 for 90-day.
After ACA, everything went up. The premium hit $6240/yr, $40co, $100referral,
and most generic rX was $30 for 90-day. Nothing was "free".

On Medicare Advantage+ it's $1620/yr, $5co, $50referral, & generics are free.
Plus, a whole list of 'referral' diagnostics are free under Medicare.

Last year, my two cataract surgeries cost me <$600 including all pre & post op visits,
the prescriptions, free prescription 'readers' (don't even need), everything.

Under ACA coverage, I would have shelled out $4k+ (estimated).



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Michael
Date: January 02, 2020 06:17AM
Quote
MrNoBody
Quote
JPK
Wait till you see how much "free" healthcare will cost you!
JPK

Yeah, ACA was just a preview...

pre-ACA I paid $1664/yr single for good corp. plan with $20 co-pay, $60 referrals,
and generic rX was $20 for 90-day.
After ACA, everything went up. The premium hit $6240/yr, $40co, $100referral,
and most generic rX was $30 for 90-day. Nothing was "free".

On Medicare Advantage+ it's $1620/yr, $5co, $50referral, & generics are free.
Plus, a whole list of 'referral' diagnostics are free under Medicare.

Last year, my two cataract surgeries cost me <$600 including all pre & post op visits,
the prescriptions, free prescription 'readers' (don't even need), everything.

Under ACA coverage, I would have shelled out $4k+ (estimated).

My Medicare Advantage went from $35 a month last year to $42 a month this year. There's a $5 copay if in network; $10 if not. It's $45 for specialists, in network or not. There's a long list of generics that are free as long as I use their pharmacy by mail. I wonder how much the feds are giving them per enrollee. The cost is so low compared to my insurance last year while employed that there must be a very large amount that the feds are paying United Health Care.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: January 02, 2020 09:03AM
I’ve talked to so many people from Europe who think I’m joking when I explain the US health insurance system.



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: January 02, 2020 09:12AM
Nothing will change until the system switches to a not-for-profit model. There are far too many fingers in the pie for anything to change. It's going to be hard, but everyone across the health industry spectrum is going to take a hit. Which is exactly why it's so hard to do.

At my last gig, the total cost for a family under a PPO was $28,000, and I paid about 15% of that amount.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2020 09:12AM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: mspace
Date: January 02, 2020 10:34AM
Paid the extortionists $14,400 this past year for 2 freelancer adults. $1500 deductible. Use the ACA marketplace for the safety net subsidy in case something happens to income.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: January 02, 2020 10:44AM
Think of every medical school or medical insurance company as a billionaire with a half dozen lobbyists. They are all working together supporting a single issue.



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: TLB
Date: January 02, 2020 10:54AM
$5,240 for spouse and I with $13,000 employer contribution. Plus $7,900 for my aged out daughter who is unemployed and living at home. Was able to get that down to about $4,800 on the open market this year.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: January 02, 2020 11:26AM
Profit-driven healthcare sure is expensive!!



rj
AKA
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: January 02, 2020 11:57AM
If you want to read how we got here, this is a pretty good summary: [www.snopes.com]

If you're using Safari, be sure to use the Reader View; there's a lot of ads that make it tougher to read.



(BTW, it's spelled < y'all >.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2020 11:58AM by Zoidberg.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: wolfcry911
Date: January 02, 2020 02:32PM
$14k and I didn't once go to the doctor...
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: DavidS
Date: January 02, 2020 02:59PM
Interesting exercise - my portion was $4158 last year for Medical and $456 for Dental. That includes 2 adults and 3 kids and out of network coverage, if needed.

This year, they changed the model somewhat and the total will be $4927 for Medical and no change for Dental. Also includes out of network coverage. I'm not sure if I am getting more for the $800 increase or just paying more.

Full disclosure, I work for The Southeast Permanente Medical Group, so my insurance is through Kaiser. I believe if I had the plain HMO, my cost would be much much lower
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: DavidS
Date: January 02, 2020 03:02PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Think of every medical school or medical insurance company as a billionaire with a half dozen lobbyists. They are all working together supporting a single issue.

While I do not disagree with the medical insurance company (at least the for-profit ones), how do you figure the medical schools into the equation? Most are associated with public and university-based hospitals and VA Medical Centers and provide free or very low cost health care to under-served and indigent populations.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: January 02, 2020 03:23PM
Quote
wolfcry911
$14k and I didn't once go to the doctor...

Just remember - insurance isn't for what you expect to happen....



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: January 02, 2020 03:24PM
Quote
DavidS
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Think of every medical school or medical insurance company as a billionaire with a half dozen lobbyists. They are all working together supporting a single issue.

While I do not disagree with the medical insurance company (at least the for-profit ones), how do you figure the medical schools into the equation? Most are associated with public and university-based hospitals and VA Medical Centers and provide free or very low cost health care to under-served and indigent populations.

There are people trying to privatize the VA. Is this to "improve care" or insert a giant health company in between veterans and the Department of Defense budget?

There are some medical schools and hospitals that provide care to indigent populations, but then why is medical debt the cause for about 66% of all bankruptcies?



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: January 02, 2020 03:36PM
Quote
Gilbert
Mine came to $1,608 for the year. That was for me, my spouse and our five kids with medical, dental and vision. We pay approximately 10% of the total cost, which is a great benefit. The weekly cost with my previous employer is about the same I pay per month now. Even though my annual salary is less than my previous job, my take home pay increased.

Wow! that is a great benefit. Years ago when my son took his first full time job, he called me with details.
Job A: $46,000 health Insurance $13 a week.
Job B: $53,000 health insurance $75 a week

He took lower pay for better benefits

Dave



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Few have died
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: January 02, 2020 03:42PM
Healthcare costs for the last two years have exceeded $100k for the cbelt3 family. Insurance runs $12k / year. Deductible $6k per year. Two hospitalization in the last two years complete with out of network crap (bastards). Dental costs (separate insurance which is.. poor) have been over $70K. Savings and stocks are pretty well gone.

I cannot afford to get sick, and I cannot afford to retire because of that.

Life sucks.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: DavidS
Date: January 02, 2020 03:43PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
DavidS
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Think of every medical school or medical insurance company as a billionaire with a half dozen lobbyists. They are all working together supporting a single issue.

While I do not disagree with the medical insurance company (at least the for-profit ones), how do you figure the medical schools into the equation? Most are associated with public and university-based hospitals and VA Medical Centers and provide free or very low cost health care to under-served and indigent populations.

There are people trying to privatize the VA. Is this to "improve care" or insert a giant health company in between veterans and the Department of Defense budget?

There are some medical schools and hospitals that provide care to indigent populations, but then why is medical debt the cause for about 66% of all bankruptcies?

I do not know the reason for privatizing the VA. I bet you get different answers depending on the underlying motive of the person being asked. I do not agree with it, as I see it inserting another middle-man into the process that will make money for themselves. I do not see it improving quality of care.

Your second question is very complicated and at the heart of the problems with our medical system. Medical debt causes so many bankruptcies due to people being under-insured, not insured at all, and just assuming "it won't happen to me." Employers are shifting more and more cost to employees, as we see from the posts above with higher and higher premiums and deductibles. As people are now able to opt-out of mandatory purchasing of health insurance, the cost for everyone else goes up to absorb this.

Many of these teaching hospitals that receive state and federal funding to serve indigent populations are not in areas of town where those with insurance want to go.
Teaching hospitals sometimes have poor reputations due to being staffed with medical students and residents. However, that is often not the case, as they are usually up on the latest technology and procedures precisely due to the teaching aspect. Plus, in academic medical centers, you are not as rushed to discharge the patient so quickly and can often do more investigation as an inpatient instead of as an outpatient.

Finally, if you have insurance, even if not enough, you are expected to pay your part. People do not think to ask about payment plans with the hospital billing departments. They just let the bills stack up and go to collections.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: January 02, 2020 07:39PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
DavidS
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Think of every medical school or medical insurance company as a billionaire with a half dozen lobbyists. They are all working together supporting a single issue.

While I do not disagree with the medical insurance company (at least the for-profit ones), how do you figure the medical schools into the equation? Most are associated with public and university-based hospitals and VA Medical Centers and provide free or very low cost health care to under-served and indigent populations.

There are people trying to privatize the VA. Is this to "improve care" or insert a giant health company in between veterans and the Department of Defense budget?

There are some medical schools and hospitals that provide care to indigent populations, but then why is medical debt the cause for about 66% of all bankruptcies?

Not only this angle but average medical school debt is $160k from what I've read. How does that get paid off? What's the interest rate over the life of that loan? How does it get paid off at a "normal" salary? Other countries don't do this.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2020 07:41PM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Speedy
Date: January 02, 2020 08:43PM
My wife paid $8666 into our Health Savings Account (we are doing ‘catch up’ because we are over 55) plus 2674.62 for high deductible insurance. Her HSA increased in value to a bit less than $10k from around $6k at the beginning of the year. All of our out-of-pocket medical including Rx's was zero because it came from the HSA.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: January 02, 2020 08:44PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Not only this angle but average medical school debt is $160k from what I've read. How does that get paid off? What's the interest rate over the life of that loan? How does it get paid off at a "normal" salary? Other countries don't do this.

I have commented on this previously, that medical schools ration graduates to keep doctors salaries high, and to justify high salaries of medical school teachers and presidents.



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: DavidS
Date: January 02, 2020 10:22PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
mrbigstuff
Not only this angle but average medical school debt is $160k from what I've read. How does that get paid off? What's the interest rate over the life of that loan? How does it get paid off at a "normal" salary? Other countries don't do this.

I have commented on this previously, that medical schools ration graduates to keep doctors salaries high, and to justify high salaries of medical school teachers and presidents.

I'm curious as to your data on this. Is it based on your opinion only or do you have some facts to back it up? Ration graduates? WTF does that even mean?

It took my wife and I 10 years each to pay back our student loans from medical school (and some from college). We are both Internists and while we are not hurting financially, there are many around us who are not medical professionals who make much more than we do. Attorneys, IT professionals, and the ever-confusing "consultants," who work from home and travel to give other's their expert opinion, all fall into this category, as do plenty others.

Before you start bashing those of us who trained for 11-20 years for our profession, work ungodly hours (and not just during residency), and are held to higher professional standards than any other, please make sure you know what you are talking about. Yes, this type of talk is a pet-peeve of mine, if you couldn't tell.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: January 03, 2020 10:10AM
Davids, you shouldn't take criticism of your profession or even of your colleagues personally. No one here is going to solve this mess, and physicians are caught in the middle, according to friends who are practicing physicians and my own doctors. But the system is a huge part of the problem, and changing that and that culture is going to be incredibly difficult, and may prove impossible.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: DavidS
Date: January 03, 2020 10:15AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Davids, you shouldn't take criticism of your profession or even of your colleagues personally. No one here is going to solve this mess, and physicians are caught in the middle, according to friends who are practicing physicians and my own doctors. But the system is a huge part of the problem, and changing that and that culture is going to be incredibly difficult, and may prove impossible.

I'm actually not taking it personally, and I agree that we are caught in the middle. However, when people state opinions as facts, I just like to find out where they get their information. I also agree that the health-care system needs to be changed in a radical way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2020 10:17AM by DavidS.
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: davester
Date: January 03, 2020 12:54PM
Quote
MrNoBody
Quote
JPK
Wait till you see how much "free" healthcare will cost you!
JPK

Yeah, ACA was just a preview...

pre-ACA I paid $1664/yr single for good corp. plan with $20 co-pay, $60 referrals,
and generic rX was $20 for 90-day.
After ACA, everything went up. The premium hit $6240/yr, $40co, $100referral,
and most generic rX was $30 for 90-day. Nothing was "free".

This makes no sense to me. In the US it would have been impossible pre-ACA to have a comprehensive health plan for $1664 a year. Are you referring to only your contribution, with your employer paying the bulk of the premiums?



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: January 03, 2020 01:48PM
Quote
DavidS
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
mrbigstuff
Not only this angle but average medical school debt is $160k from what I've read. How does that get paid off? What's the interest rate over the life of that loan? How does it get paid off at a "normal" salary? Other countries don't do this.

I have commented on this previously, that medical schools ration graduates to keep doctors salaries high, and to justify high salaries of medical school teachers and presidents.

I'm curious as to your data on this. Is it based on your opinion only or do you have some facts to back it up? Ration graduates? WTF does that even mean?

It took my wife and I 10 years each to pay back our student loans from medical school (and some from college). We are both Internists and while we are not hurting financially, there are many around us who are not medical professionals who make much more than we do. Attorneys, IT professionals, and the ever-confusing "consultants," who work from home and travel to give other's their expert opinion, all fall into this category, as do plenty others.

Before you start bashing those of us who trained for 11-20 years for our profession, work ungodly hours (and not just during residency), and are held to higher professional standards than any other, please make sure you know what you are talking about. Yes, this type of talk is a pet-peeve of mine, if you couldn't tell.

You should read more about your pet-peeve. Graduation rates have effectively been closely controlled since the mid-1980's, when the government first identified a shortfall of MD's when compared to expected population growth. This was the first relevant article article I found today that was fairly recent.
[www.usnews.com]

It is a complex subject because it is partly due to 40 years of inadequate funding by Congress for Residency training.
[www.cnn.com]

There need to be more schools in rural areas but that's not as profitable or prestigious for top level administrators. Keeping graduation rates down has fueled growth of offshore schools and residency programs.



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: DavidS
Date: January 03, 2020 02:06PM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
DavidS
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
Quote
mrbigstuff
Not only this angle but average medical school debt is $160k from what I've read. How does that get paid off? What's the interest rate over the life of that loan? How does it get paid off at a "normal" salary? Other countries don't do this.

I have commented on this previously, that medical schools ration graduates to keep doctors salaries high, and to justify high salaries of medical school teachers and presidents.

I'm curious as to your data on this. Is it based on your opinion only or do you have some facts to back it up? Ration graduates? WTF does that even mean?

It took my wife and I 10 years each to pay back our student loans from medical school (and some from college). We are both Internists and while we are not hurting financially, there are many around us who are not medical professionals who make much more than we do. Attorneys, IT professionals, and the ever-confusing "consultants," who work from home and travel to give other's their expert opinion, all fall into this category, as do plenty others.

Before you start bashing those of us who trained for 11-20 years for our profession, work ungodly hours (and not just during residency), and are held to higher professional standards than any other, please make sure you know what you are talking about. Yes, this type of talk is a pet-peeve of mine, if you couldn't tell.

You should read more about your pet-peeve. Graduation rates have effectively been closely controlled since the mid-1980's, when the government first identified a shortfall of MD's when compared to expected population growth. This was the first relevant article article I found today that was fairly recent.
[www.usnews.com]

It is a complex subject because it is partly due to 40 years of inadequate funding by Congress for Residency training.
[www.cnn.com]

There need to be more schools in rural areas but that's not as profitable or prestigious for top level administrators. Keeping graduation rates down has fueled growth of offshore schools and residency programs.

Interesting articles from my first skim (while waiting for my nurse to do an EKG on one patient and bring back another who showed up 30 minutes late for his appointment). On first glance, I do not disagree with either, but I'll have to read them more carefully and offer an opinion later. Thank you for posting them, but I still take some exception to your earlier comments. winking smiley
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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: January 03, 2020 08:13PM
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DavidS
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Filliam H. Muffman
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DavidS
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Filliam H. Muffman
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mrbigstuff
Not only this angle but average medical school debt is $160k from what I've read. How does that get paid off? What's the interest rate over the life of that loan? How does it get paid off at a "normal" salary? Other countries don't do this.

I have commented on this previously, that medical schools ration graduates to keep doctors salaries high, and to justify high salaries of medical school teachers and presidents.

I'm curious as to your data on this. Is it based on your opinion only or do you have some facts to back it up? Ration graduates? WTF does that even mean?

It took my wife and I 10 years each to pay back our student loans from medical school (and some from college). We are both Internists and while we are not hurting financially, there are many around us who are not medical professionals who make much more than we do. Attorneys, IT professionals, and the ever-confusing "consultants," who work from home and travel to give other's their expert opinion, all fall into this category, as do plenty others.

Before you start bashing those of us who trained for 11-20 years for our profession, work ungodly hours (and not just during residency), and are held to higher professional standards than any other, please make sure you know what you are talking about. Yes, this type of talk is a pet-peeve of mine, if you couldn't tell.

You should read more about your pet-peeve. Graduation rates have effectively been closely controlled since the mid-1980's, when the government first identified a shortfall of MD's when compared to expected population growth. This was the first relevant article article I found today that was fairly recent.
[www.usnews.com]

It is a complex subject because it is partly due to 40 years of inadequate funding by Congress for Residency training.
[www.cnn.com]

There need to be more schools in rural areas but that's not as profitable or prestigious for top level administrators. Keeping graduation rates down has fueled growth of offshore schools and residency programs.

Interesting articles from my first skim (while waiting for my nurse to do an EKG on one patient and bring back another who showed up 30 minutes late for his appointment). On first glance, I do not disagree with either, but I'll have to read them more carefully and offer an opinion later. Thank you for posting them, but I still take some exception to your earlier comments. winking smiley

It helps a little bit to be able read between the lines. The Balanced Budget Act of 1997 capped Medicaid and other money for teaching/post-grad training. It had already been limited since the 80's, but what groups gave Congress input on setting the new cap so low? It is a little difficult to look back 23 years to see who was involved in this part of the budget. I welcome a different set of eyes to look, maybe you can identify someone else as being responsible. I contend it is large organizations that had well funded lobbyists. If you aren't a dean or president at a top 10 med school making upper-six figures, you might not be seeing their side of the discussion.

Malpractice insurance was a big issue ten years ago, but a couple of recent stories seem to imply rates have not risen much in the last ten years.



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Re: Wow! On my last paystub of the year, I saw my health premium total
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: January 03, 2020 08:52PM
Found a link posted by Chakravartin in a 8 year old thread that maybe attributes it to stupidity rather than malice. personal.utdallas.edu/~plewin/Doctor%20Shortage.htm



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