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MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: beagledave
Date: January 13, 2020 01:27PM
[www.mlb.com]

Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch have each been suspended without pay for the 2020 season by Major League Baseball, which on Monday released the findings from its investigation into Houston’s sign-stealing allegations.

Houston also forfeits its first- and second-round picks in the 2020 and 2021 MLB Drafts as part of the penalties. In addition, the Astros were fined $5 million, which is the highest allowable fine under the Major League Constitution.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: hal
Date: January 13, 2020 01:31PM
wow indeed!
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: vision63
Date: January 13, 2020 01:34PM
Unless they hand the title to the Dodgers, they haven't done anything. Kershaw's rep took a bigger hit and Yu Darvish was run out of town and they were stealing their signs the whole time. Dodgers beat them.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: January 13, 2020 02:03PM
Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: RgrF
Date: January 13, 2020 02:04PM
Red Sox manager Alex Cora will probably be next.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: vision63
Date: January 13, 2020 02:04PM
smiley-sw018
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: January 13, 2020 02:04PM
Why is it okay to steal bases but not signs??



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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: 3d
Date: January 13, 2020 02:09PM
Quote
vision63
Unless they hand the title to the Dodgers, they haven't done anything. Kershaw's rep took a bigger hit and Yu Darvish was run out of town and they were stealing their signs the whole time. Dodgers beat them.

Darvish WS Game 7 was in LA though...

2019 Game 6 ALCS, Yanks at Houston. Altuve hits 9th inning walk-off homer off Chapman...

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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: vision63
Date: January 13, 2020 02:12PM
Quote
3d
Quote
vision63
Unless they hand the title to the Dodgers, they haven't done anything. Kershaw's rep took a bigger hit and Yu Darvish was run out of town and they were stealing their signs the whole time. Dodgers beat them.

Darvish WS Game 7 was in LA though...

2019 Game 6 ALCS, Yanks at Houston. Altuve hits 9th inning walk-off homer off Chapman...


They solved Yu. He was wondering how he could have been tipping his pitches at that time.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: January 13, 2020 02:12PM
Quote
mattkime
Why is it okay to steal bases but not signs??



Under the unspoken code of baseball, stealing signs is ok, just can’t use technology to do this.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: January 13, 2020 02:17PM
Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.



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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: beagledave
Date: January 13, 2020 02:23PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Quote
mattkime
Why is it okay to steal bases but not signs??



Under the unspoken code of baseball, stealing signs is ok, just can’t use technology to do this.

It's not "unspoken". In 2017, the league office said that going forward, using technology to steal signs would result in harsh consequences.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2020 02:23PM by beagledave.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: mattkime
Date: January 13, 2020 02:27PM
what if you use technology to steal bases?



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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: bfd
Date: January 13, 2020 02:28PM
Sounds like bench coach and former Red Sox mgr. Alex Cora may get even more of a consequence than just being fired … stay tuned (and make room for some company, Pete Rose…)
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: beagledave
Date: January 13, 2020 02:29PM
Quote
mattkime
what if you use technology to steal bases?

I welcome our robot base stealers.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: beagledave
Date: January 13, 2020 02:36PM
And...they're fired

[www.espn.com]
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: hal
Date: January 13, 2020 02:42PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.

so these guys can't be hired for another year - right?

...and what is the penalty to the Astros now that these guys are gone?
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: January 13, 2020 02:44PM
But, still...

"Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing"

Just don't get caught cheating.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: RgrF
Date: January 13, 2020 02:57PM
Quote
hal
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.

so these guys can't be hired for another year - right?

...and what is the penalty to the Astros now that these guys are gone?

No future playoff appearances would seem to be the team penalty, Red Sox already started that last year.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: mikebw
Date: January 13, 2020 02:58PM
Well that should deter anyone else from trying. It certainly would for me.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: vision63
Date: January 13, 2020 02:59PM
Quote
hal
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.

so these guys can't be hired for another year - right?

...and what is the penalty to the Astros now that these guys are gone?

5 million dollars. They just fired two of the best of the hardest to find positions in sports. If I was the owner, I wouldn't have fired them.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: pinkoos
Date: January 13, 2020 03:00PM
Not a good couple of days for Houston sports....

:-(



My daily record blog: [www.auditorymusings.com]


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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: January 13, 2020 03:03PM
Under the unspoken code of baseball, stealing signs is ok, just can’t use technology to do this.


If one can see the signs with their naked eyes, why shouldn't decoding them be fair game.

I don't think it truly fits any degree of sportsmanship credo, but then cheating in sports is a given, so this level of sign stealing seems a natural. It's not much different than reading another players body language to see what they're going to do next.

But using tech is pretty much taking Mr. Sportsmanship out to the back of the barn and putting two into the back of his head. Novel, maybe clever given any particular implementation, but way wrong




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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I welcome our MLB overlords.
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: January 13, 2020 03:06PM
(Forgot to mention that.)

At least in this particular instance.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: January 13, 2020 03:14PM
Quote
beagledave
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Quote
mattkime
Why is it okay to steal bases but not signs??



Under the unspoken code of baseball, stealing signs is ok, just can’t use technology to do this.

It's not "unspoken". In 2017, the league office said that going forward, using technology to steal signs would result in harsh consequences.

Stealing signs the old fashioned way is part of the unspoken code. Using technology to steal and decipher is against the rules and we are witnessing the consequences.



Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: vision63
Date: January 13, 2020 03:18PM
The only reason there "are" signs are to mask the pitch. It's human nature to try to figure out the pitch using your senses. You can't stop poker players from learning their opponents tells.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2020 03:19PM by vision63.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: January 13, 2020 03:32PM
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time (or pay the fine).

Seriously, these cats knew they were cheating. Hit them, and hit them hard.

EDIT: Because I'm somewhat of an idiot. confused smiley



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2020 04:28PM by Rick-o.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: hal
Date: January 13, 2020 03:53PM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Quote
beagledave
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Quote
mattkime
Why is it okay to steal bases but not signs??



Under the unspoken code of baseball, stealing signs is ok, just can’t use technology to do this.

It's not "unspoken". In 2017, the league office said that going forward, using technology to steal signs would result in harsh consequences.

Stealing signs the old fashioned way is part of the unspoken code. Using technology to steal and decipher is against the rules and we are witnessing the consequences.

I appreciate that it has actually been written into the rule book. I wasn't aware that it had been. I think stealing signs is great and using tech to get it done is very clever and cool, but if it's against the rules, it's against the rules.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: January 13, 2020 04:13PM
Quote
bfd
Sounds like bench coach and former Red Sox mgr. Alex Cora may get even more of a consequence than just being fired … stay tuned (and make room for some company, Pete Rose…)


Seeing as he may be a part of two operations with two different teams, this could go badly for him. I wouldn't be surprised if they make a severe example out of him.



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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: January 13, 2020 04:37PM
Astros owner says World Series was not tainted by this: [www.youtube.com]



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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: Acer
Date: January 13, 2020 05:38PM
Pretty damning video analysis linked in this article from November 2019: [ftw.usatoday.com]

Pitchers and the catchers were noticing the "coincidence" of sign and banging sound in real time. Downright brazen.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2020 05:39PM by Acer.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: January 13, 2020 05:45PM
....so there is crying in baseball..........???



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: January 13, 2020 05:53PM
How to use tech to steal signs:
[www.youtube.com]



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: January 13, 2020 07:38PM
Quote
vision63
Unless they hand the title to the Dodgers, they haven't done anything. Kershaw's rep took a bigger hit and Yu Darvish was run out of town and they were stealing their signs the whole time. Dodgers beat them.

Thing is, where do you stop? If you void their WS win, then you probably have to void their wins throughout the entire playoffs... which opens a heck of a can of worms. The Astros beat both the Yankees and the Red Sox to get to the WS that season - if you void their WS win, you open the door to a legitimate claim from either or both of the other teams that THEY should have played in the WS that year instead of the Astros.

As much as it sucks (and I agree it does), this is really the only way to move forward from this.



It is what it is.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: January 13, 2020 07:39PM
Quote
Lux Interior
Signs, signs, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read steal the sign?

FTFY grinning smiley



It is what it is.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: January 13, 2020 07:40PM
Quote
mattkime
Why is it okay to steal bases but not signs??

Why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?



It is what it is.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: January 13, 2020 07:42PM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
hal
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.

so these guys can't be hired for another year - right?

...and what is the penalty to the Astros now that these guys are gone?

No future playoff appearances would seem to be the team penalty, Red Sox already started that last year.

Plus the draft picks they lost.



It is what it is.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: vision63
Date: January 13, 2020 07:45PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
vision63
Unless they hand the title to the Dodgers, they haven't done anything. Kershaw's rep took a bigger hit and Yu Darvish was run out of town and they were stealing their signs the whole time. Dodgers beat them.

Thing is, where do you stop? If you void their WS win, then you probably have to void their wins throughout the entire playoffs... which opens a heck of a can of worms. The Astros beat both the Yankees and the Red Sox to get to the WS that season - if you void their WS win, you open the door to a legitimate claim from either or both of the other teams that THEY should have played in the WS that year instead of the Astros.

As much as it sucks (and I agree it does), this is really the only way to move forward from this.

I wouldn't want them to void the victory. I said that before they fired the GM and the Manager and the $5 million was the only fine. I was happy with the suspensions. I never like people to lose their jobs. I definitely think they owe apologies to Yu Darvish and Kersh. Kershaw allowed 6 runs in 4 innings in the 5th game at Minute Maid. No way they score 13 runs that game. They knew exactly what he was pitching.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: pdq
Date: January 13, 2020 07:49PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
hal
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.

so these guys can't be hired for another year - right?

...and what is the penalty to the Astros now that these guys are gone?

5 million dollars. They just fired two of the best of the hardest to find positions in sports. If I was the owner, I wouldn't have fired them.

In the old days, you got banished from the sport for life.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: vision63
Date: January 13, 2020 07:50PM
Quote
pdq
Quote
vision63
Quote
hal
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.

so these guys can't be hired for another year - right?

...and what is the penalty to the Astros now that these guys are gone?

5 million dollars. They just fired two of the best of the hardest to find positions in sports. If I was the owner, I wouldn't have fired them.

In the old days, you got banished from the sport for life.

I wouldn't ban people for life. I get that you can't tolerate cheating but I also believe in redemption.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: srf1957
Date: January 13, 2020 08:11PM
In the old days, you got banished from the sport for life.
About 3 years ago Braves exec got lifetime ban .. A couple years before that someone with Cardinals got one exec banned for life for hacking Astro's scouting .
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: pdq
Date: January 13, 2020 08:18PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
pdq
Quote
vision63
Quote
hal
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Astros just fired Hinch and the GM.

so these guys can't be hired for another year - right?

...and what is the penalty to the Astros now that these guys are gone?

5 million dollars. They just fired two of the best of the hardest to find positions in sports. If I was the owner, I wouldn't have fired them.

In the old days, you got banished from the sport for life.

I wouldn't ban people for life. I get that you can't tolerate cheating but I also believe in redemption.

How about Charlie Hustle?
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: Wags
Date: January 13, 2020 08:37PM
Maybe they oughta not allow signs at all. Let the pitchers earn their obscene salaries.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: January 13, 2020 08:54PM
it's scandalous and violates a very important taboo..of, duh, not stealing your opponents signs..
picking up tips is different...tipping signs or tipping pitches..you take it.

You don't do it because it eats at one of the cores of the game..stealing signs is a good excuse for serious brawls, or being beaned.

Im glad they popped these guys hard...total low end bUll**** stuff.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: Speedy
Date: January 13, 2020 09:27PM
At least they didn’t deflate the ball.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: vision63
Date: January 13, 2020 09:52PM
Quote
Kraniac
it's scandalous and violates a very important taboo..of, duh, not stealing your opponents signs..
picking up tips is different...tipping signs or tipping pitches..you take it.

You don't do it because it eats at one of the cores of the game..stealing signs is a good excuse for serious brawls, or being beaned.

Im glad they popped these guys hard...total low end bUll**** stuff.

That's all true. The public has to trust the sport in order to invest emotionally in it. It also shows how hard it is to cheat. Anytime a scheme involves more than one human being, it demands that they all keep the secret. That means no wives, no friends no one else outside of the circle. I think that's virtually impossible
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: sekker
Date: January 13, 2020 10:53PM
Signs are for the safety of the catcher, and the batter and ump. It’s dangerous when the pitcher and catcher cross signs.

The WS win should be voided. This was overt sign stealing that told the batter the key data - fastball or not.

The infamous camera in the bleachers in Chicago wasn’t fast enough to impact each pitch.

I think they need to make invisible signs - maybe a ring for the pitcher and a Headsup display for the catcher’s helmet.

Sure, a hacker could try to ‘steal’, but they could recode the encryption between each inning if they like.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: January 14, 2020 12:51AM
I wouldn't ban people for life.

I wouldn't not ban people for life.


I also believe in redemption.

I also believe in redemption, occasionally.

It's my Two Strikes rule, when One Strike doesn't apply.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: January 14, 2020 07:51AM
"Houston Cheastros"?
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Re: MLB serious about sign stealing. Wow.
Posted by: beagledave
Date: January 14, 2020 10:37AM
Quote
sekker

I think they need to make invisible signs - maybe a ring for the pitcher and a Headsup display for the catcher’s helmet.

Sure, a hacker could try to ‘steal’, but they could recode the encryption between each inning if they like.

It's the CATCHER that calls the pitch (the pitcher can shake it off, but the catcher initiates the process). I don't see how a heads up display on a pitcher would work.
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