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Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Microman
Date: February 15, 2020 04:57PM
Today at Disneyland I made a big mistake. But let me take a step back. This week I saw an Female Asian Comedian say that some of the racists things she has heard or felt was when she was at Trader Joe's and someone asked her for a recommendation on RICE.

So having that in mind. And being on the Spectrum myself. Today I saw this Asian man. First saw him with his big 35 mm type camera (probably digital nowadays).... and I thought nothing about it. Then a few minutes later I see his son about 7 years of age handling this big camera, and I thought to myself, "This in itself would be a great picture" Kid, big camera, taking pictures of that Star Wars stuff hanging up on wall.

So with my Aspergers in mind, I wanted to tell the man, that I thought a picture of his son with that big camera would from my angle make a great picture.

My mistake.... because we were at Disneyland a possible melting pot of people, I looked at him and without thinking, I spoke and didn't say hi. how are you, but I said "Do you Speak English"

Big Mistake. He took it very badly,I tried to get out of it, but to no avail. He was Pissed Off.

I cant believe at my age I can still make a mistake like that. I discussed it with my family and friends and they all agreed, that I was wrong....

Sorry fella, I just wanted to talk with you, and should have just said "hello"
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: rgG
Date: February 15, 2020 06:06PM
At a melting pot like DL, with often more foreign tourists than locals, I think it was an honest mistake.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: February 15, 2020 06:18PM
Assuming someone speaks English is racist.
Asking if someone speaks English is racist.

Better just not talk to other people, though that's probably racist too.

When traveling, I've been asked if I speak English. I never considered it racist.




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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: February 15, 2020 07:01PM
Odds are it’s approaching a man with his child. Folks are protective. And ... it’s hard to get those social skills. You’re doing great. It’s not something to worry about.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: rz
Date: February 15, 2020 07:56PM
I was in France about 10 years ago when a guy came up to me and "mimed" if I would take his and his wife's picture. I could hear him talking to his wife... they were obviously Americans and I never said a word. They just assumed I didn't speak English. They probably told all their friends that the French aren't rude because this nice French guy took their picture.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: rz
Date: February 15, 2020 08:01PM
Oh, and that reminds me of a story of when I was just out of college and worked with a guy who was obviously of Indian ancestry.... black hair, dark skin, etc. But his family had been living here for several generations. He said someone came up to him once and asked him where he was from. He answered, "Chicago". "No, where are your parents from?" "California". At that point, they just gave up and walked away.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 15, 2020 08:07PM
Quote
M A V I C
Assuming someone speaks English is racist.
Asking if someone speaks English is racist.

Better just not talk to other people, though that's probably racist too.

When traveling, I've been asked if I speak English. I never considered it racist.

This. People need to stop being so uptight.



It is what it is.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Ammo
Date: February 15, 2020 08:19PM
IMO, his reaction was a lot bigger mistake than yours.



Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass

Until you make your unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate. - Carl Jung
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Carm
Date: February 15, 2020 08:42PM
Quote
Ammo
IMO, his reaction was a lot bigger mistake than yours.
This.
All he had to do was
A) laugh it off instead of overreacting.
B) answer the question and ask why?

I get spoken to in Spanish when I go to some stores (they assume I speak Spanish, I do, but not regularly. Native English speaker) I answer in English and all is good.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: February 15, 2020 09:47PM
You mean something like this?

Seinfeld - Chinese mailman
[www.youtube.com]



Grateful11
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 15, 2020 10:19PM


[youtu.be]
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 15, 2020 10:32PM
Quote
Ammo
IMO, his reaction was a lot bigger mistake than yours.

I disagree. No doubt he gets discriminated against often and now it happens when he is with his child at Disneyland.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 16, 2020 12:51AM
Quote
vision63


[youtu.be]

omg. I nearly woke up everyone in my house watching this in the wee hours.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 16, 2020 07:48AM
Quote
Grateful11
You mean something like this?

Seinfeld - Chinese mailman
[www.youtube.com]

That was funny.

OT: I never watched Seinfeld when it originally ran, but I see clips like that and think, maybe it's worth watching 'reruns' (as we used to do with all TV shows—we still never watch anything current). But neither Amazon Prime nor Netflix offer it for 'free' (nothing is free; we pay for those services, but I prefer not to pay even more).

On-topic: I agree with Ammo.

/Mr Lynn



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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 16, 2020 08:14AM
no, you weren't being racist.

He was being a shortsighted uptight @#$%&..
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 16, 2020 09:46AM
.....if you look at it from his perspective......people who are 'obviously' not white are constantly asked questions like 'do you speak english?' even if they were born here or have been here for generations........


.....if you have any friends who are non-white.....ask them......they all have stories like that......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Janit
Date: February 16, 2020 11:14AM
Perhaps a better topic for discussion would be what kind of apology should be offered/accepted for this kind of faux pas?

This breaks down into several questions:

1) What form of apology lends appropriate weight to the slight done to the recipient? Apologies that simply amount to a defense of the questionable comment are not likely to land well.

2) What weight should be given to the injury that has been inflicted? When is the recipient of the apology being unreasonable in refusing to accept the apology?

3) What kind of interaction is necessary to repair the injury that has been done?

Situations like this usually require a conversation rather than a formulaic response.

It is worth studying the dynamics of apology so that you will be better prepared the next time you find yourself in a similar situation. Rest assured that this is a big blind spot even for people who are not on the Spectrum. We all say unfortunate things from time to time, and recovering from them is a skill to be cultivated.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 16, 2020 11:20AM
Quote
NewtonMP2100
.....if you look at it from his perspective......people who are 'obviously' not white are constantly asked questions like 'do you speak english?' even if they were born here or have been here for generations........


.....if you have any friends who are non-white.....ask them......they all have stories like that......

ack..the root problem is that folks are at a weird heightened state of 'what are you trying to do to me??!!"--

Instead of savoring little interactions that could bring joy, perspective and new life...

it's sorta weird.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: February 16, 2020 12:19PM
No sugarcoating.

Yes, you were, without malice, being racist. It happens. You made an assumption based purely on his race without sufficient foundation. The ‘it was Disneyland’ stuff is clutching at straws and effectively BS. Own your mistake.

He was just a guy at the park with his kid. You didn’t overhear him speaking another language or stumbling through heavily accented English. Treat him like any other guy. Worst case, he does happen to be a visitor from elsewhere, who still may or may not speak English, and he doesn’t speak English, and you work around it or politely take your leave with a friendly goodbye.

Another almost universal experience shared by minorities? Discussions like this, where people bend over backwards and split hairs giving padding to racist behavior.

And no, based just on this innocent slip, are not a bad guy. You’re just a guy, hopefully doing your best.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2020 12:25PM by Blankity Blank.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 16, 2020 12:34PM
Quote
Blankity Blank
No sugarcoating.

Yes, you were, without malice, being racist. It happens. You made an assumption based purely on his race without sufficient foundation. The ‘it was Disneyland’ stuff is clutching at straws and effectively BS. Own your mistake.

He was just a guy at the park with his kid. You didn’t overhear him speaking another language or stumbling through heavily accented English. Treat him like any other guy. Worst case, he does happen to be a visitor from elsewhere, who still may or may not speak English, and he doesn’t speak English, and you work around it or politely take your leave with a friendly goodbye.

Another almost universal experience shared by minorities? Discussions like this, where people bend over backwards and split hairs giving padding to racist behavior.

And no, based just on this innocent slip, are not a bad guy. You’re just a guy, hopefully doing your best.

That, is not being racist..it's a question about language. Racism is something different.

He is not even guilty of assumptionism...he asked a simple question. do you speak my language?...do we have a common path of communication?

..in a country that is being visited and entered by many many asian folks these days, and has been for a long time...this is also L.A. in Disneyland..

..I ask this question all the time when im in communities that are adjacent to Chinatown in Chicago...and when i say, adjacent,i mean adjacent to one hood..and then adjacent to that 2nd hood.. pretty damn far from what we've always known as the central Chinese community here...

yes, minorities with certain physical characteristics get asked these questions...there is far worse @#$%& going on than that..most of the time this represents an interest in communicating, nothing more..
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: February 16, 2020 02:23PM
Prejudice is not racism.

Prejudice is a mistake that people make, using assumptions about the people they interact with that unconsciously bias judgment.

Racism involves valuing people of differing genetic or cultural background on a scale (inevitably with yourself on top), and consequently treating "others" as your inferiors.

We're all prejudiced. It's not a sin. It's culture and instinct. When you slip, tell yourself that you'll make an effort not to do it again, apologize if that seems appropriate, and get on with your life.



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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 16, 2020 02:49PM
This is not prejudice, either.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Microman
Date: February 16, 2020 04:08PM
Thank you so much for your responses. I feel I have learned so much. But I am so old, you would have thought I would know what to do.

Being at Disneyland is no excuse for expecting non English speakers.

I will try to learn from this experience.

Thank you all
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: February 16, 2020 08:11PM
rac·ism
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior


Did you ask the question under the belief your race is superior?

If not, it's not racism.

prej·u·dice

noun
1.
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.


Did you do this based on preconceived opinion that was not reasonable or based on experience?

If not, it's not prejudice.




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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 16, 2020 08:27PM
It sounds like an innocent question based on a mistaken assumption, not an act of judgment. Seems to me the recipient was at fault for taking offense, when he had no cause to be—a common condition in our society these days.

/Mr Lynn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2020 08:30PM by mrlynn.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 16, 2020 08:28PM
[duplicate deleted]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2020 08:29PM by mrlynn.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 16, 2020 08:40PM
....pardon my french but that is a common position of 'white privilege'.....it is not a stretch to say that the majority of forum members here are white males......


....a such you have never been 'discriminated' against in any manner......people never 'assume' things like you don't speak english.....or follow you when you enter a store.....or to look through you like you are not even there......


.....it is the same reason that 'white males'....as the majority.....will never understand what it was like to be a slave.......they benefit from all the advantages in the world.........non-whites are forced to overcome disadvantages to make it......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2020 08:43PM by NewtonMP2100.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: davester
Date: February 16, 2020 09:24PM
Quote
mrlynn
It sounds like an innocent question based on a mistaken assumption, not an act of judgment. Seems to me the recipient was at fault for taking offense, when he had no cause to be—a common condition in our society these days.

/Mr Lynn[/quote

Beg to differ. This is clearly prejudice, but not racism.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: February 16, 2020 09:33PM
Quote
NewtonMP2100
....pardon my french but that is a common position of 'white privilege'.....it is not a stretch to say that the majority of forum members here are white males......


....a such you have never been 'discriminated' against in any manner......people never 'assume' things like you don't speak english.....or follow you when you enter a store.....or to look through you like you are not even there......


.....it is the same reason that 'white males'....as the majority.....will never understand what it was like to be a slave.......they benefit from all the advantages in the world.........non-whites are forced to overcome disadvantages to make it......

in this case, disagree. this happens all over the damn place..asia for example..dialects (just in china--different languages) distinct languages, finding common ground in asia to speak.. literally, thousands of language spoken on that continent..it happens in europe, amongst Euros all the time..people asking if folks speak a certain language..america? it's also a common question but it's 'slightly different'..only. and i dont even know why, it just feels a little different because English, right now, is having it's period as the World's common language...many chinese coming into this country because their economy is popping...just as the japanese were coming here in droves when they were kicking everyone's ass..But there are many many more Chinese folks, by comparison, arriving here and lots of them do not speak a lick of english..so you ask. Sorry, but, white privilege? today in regards to THIS?? My wife has been a professional chef for many many years..she asks people all the time if they speak english, sometimes really loudly and with the big fork pointed at the mother @#$%&. disneyland is a destination for many scads, tons of foreigners..you would completely expect to encounter some folks speaking little or no english. as for your white male parallel..that feels wrong as hell. it is a very small world and people are mixing more than ever and asking that question..girls and boys of all different colors.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: mrlynn
Date: February 16, 2020 09:46PM
Quote
NewtonMP2100
....pardon my french but that is a common position of 'white privilege'.....it is not a stretch to say that the majority of forum members here are white males......


....a such you have never been 'discriminated' against in any manner......people never 'assume' things like you don't speak english.....or follow you when you enter a store.....or to look through you like you are not even there......


.....it is the same reason that 'white males'....as the majority.....will never understand what it was like to be a slave.......they benefit from all the advantages in the world.........non-whites are forced to overcome disadvantages to make it......

What the hell does an innocent mistake have to do with slavery, a custom found in all continents and among all peoples of the world throughout human history (and still practiced in some places, like North Africa). This is just arrant poppycock.

/Mr Lynn
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: February 17, 2020 01:49AM
Janit's post was brilliant, and tied with by vis' different but equally brilliant contribution.

'Faux pas' is the most appropriate description of Mm's unfortunate situation. Fortunately it didn't escalate into an incident.

Trying to label it as a racist remark, or one based on racism or prejudice is unnecessary and casts an unwarranted pall on Mm's action.

I'd like to think the other party eventually cooled off and did some introspection of his own.

Even if we can't help how we feel, we can help how we act.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

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Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: February 17, 2020 02:16PM
Quote
vision63


[youtu.be]

Flippin' nuggers.

I hate them.

Always stealing my chicken nuggets.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 17, 2020 03:27PM
Quote
vision63


[youtu.be]

Heh! I like how everyone had that slack jawed look when Randy gave his answer.



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 17, 2020 05:30PM
Quote
Rick-o
Quote
vision63


[youtu.be]

Heh! I like how everyone had that slack jawed look when Randy gave his answer.

I liked when the camera man leaned over.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: February 17, 2020 05:42PM
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: February 17, 2020 10:55PM
Quote
Lux Interior

"DEAD honkey!"



It is what it is.
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 17, 2020 11:43PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
Lux Interior

"DEAD honkey!"

Richard Pryor - LOL
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Re: Inadvertant Racist
Posted by: decay
Date: February 18, 2020 08:28AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
Lux Interior

"DEAD honkey!"

Richard Pryor - LOL

I miss his humor.



---
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