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can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: space-time
Date: February 15, 2020 07:40PM
Microman's "Inadvertant Racist" thread below reminded me of an incident that happened to me past Summer in San Francisco.

We were at Fisherman's Wharf Hyde and Beach cable car station waiting for the ride and a musician started playing the saxophone and blasting music thought some portable speakers. People were making donations, everyone had a good time. A toddler walked away from his parents and started dancing near the musician. I was taking a video with my iPhone and the toddler's Dad saw me and came over and told me with a foreign accent to stop filming.

I did stop, I didn't want to cause any trouble, but I am curious if he had any legal right to stop me from filming in a public space.

As a parent, I fully understand him.

As a tourist, I am not sure that I agree with his point of view.

Anyway, for me it was not a big deal, but I am curious what the law says in cases like these.

Thanks
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Carm
Date: February 15, 2020 07:46PM
You can film whatever is happening in a public space.
Edit:
[en.m.wikipedia.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2020 07:48PM by Carm.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 15, 2020 07:48PM
I'll defend my right to photograph in public to the death. I've dealt with many a screaming citizen. Every one of them can kma.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Carm
Date: February 15, 2020 07:53PM
Wiki link provides a link to this PDF [www.krages.com]
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: M A V I C
Date: February 15, 2020 08:00PM
A local school put up signs on their fence to tell people not to record the kids or take pictures. Apparently people were standing on the public sidewalk and filming.

I never did, but now I'm tempted to go pretend to be filming (not worth the storage space to actually film.)

You have as much of a right to film from a public as the person has a right to not have you take their wallet from them.

That said, maybe they didn't know and they can certainly ask.




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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 15, 2020 08:30PM
I've never understood the fear of kids being photographed but confronting a threatened parent (even if the threat is completely imaginary) isn't worth it.

I dunno, people are weird.



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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Wags
Date: February 15, 2020 08:58PM
[www.youtube.com]
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: February 15, 2020 10:58PM
Years ago I would routinely photograph kids doing whatever when a feature photo was needed. By the time I retired it was no longer done. It just wasn't worth the hassles and often having the cops called.

So is it legal? absolutely
Is it worth it? likely not.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 15, 2020 10:59PM
I think it goes

1. Take photo of child
2. ???
3. Child abducted.

No matter how often its stated it never sinks in - children are most often abused by people close to them.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Mr645
Date: February 16, 2020 09:05AM
You can film what happens in a public space, you cannot use the content for commercial or derogatory purposes.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 16, 2020 09:43AM
......you should have given him a beat down....????



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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 16, 2020 12:56PM
Quote
Mr645
You can film what happens in a public space, you cannot use the content for commercial or derogatory purposes.

I'm not sure why paparazzi get to do it. Maybe under guise of something being "newsworthy?"
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: February 16, 2020 01:44PM
Quote
vision63
I'll defend my right to photograph in public to the death. I've dealt with many a screaming citizen. Every one of them can kma.

And having known a pedophile, and gotten some insight to how they work, if I saw you filming my child, in public or not, if you didn’t do some very convincing talking, I’d KYA. And the “K” doesn’t stand for “kiss”. And, if you refused to delete the images, I would destroy your phone/camera.

They are scheming trash, good at hiding in plain sight, full of ‘innocent’ excuses. They will find ways to do sickening things even with the most innocent images.

No half measures protecting mine. None.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2020 01:47PM by Blankity Blank.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: February 16, 2020 01:55PM
Quote
Mr645
You can film what happens in a public space, you cannot use the content for commercial or derogatory purposes.

Correct
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: February 16, 2020 02:12PM
Quote
Blankity Blank
They are scheming trash, good at hiding in plain sight, full of ‘innocent’ excuses. They will find ways to do sickening things even with the most innocent images.

Would a pedophile draw attention to himself by photographing children?
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: TheTominator
Date: February 16, 2020 02:30PM
Quote
space-time
but I am curious if he had any legal right to stop me from filming in a public space.

On many South Korean TV dramas, there are characters that confront photographers and assert that it is illegal for them to photograph children without consent even in public spaces. Other people in the world are apparently used to a different set of privacy protections.

Strangely though, the same South Korean dramas illustrate many CCTVs and car "black boxes" that are constantly recording in public spaces presumably including children. These recordings are frequently used in the dramas for investigations.

Edit:
Information about the Korean "Right to Face" privacy laws affecting photographers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2020 02:33PM by TheTominator.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 16, 2020 02:47PM
> if I saw you filming my child, in public or not, if you didn’t do some very convincing talking, I’d KYA. And the “K” doesn’t stand for “kiss”. And, if you refused to delete the images, I would destroy your phone/camera.

Perhaps you should calm down. No one has to answer to you if what is being filmed in public, your family members or whatever. You would risk assault & battery charges if you attack the photog and destroy his property.

With all the people out there filming every public freakout, I'm certain you would end up on the short end of the stick.

Like I said, perhaps you should calm down.



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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: February 16, 2020 02:52PM
Quote
freeradical
Quote
Blankity Blank
They are scheming trash, good at hiding in plain sight, full of ‘innocent’ excuses. They will find ways to do sickening things even with the most innocent images.

Would a pedophile draw attention to himself by photographing children?

Under some theoretically innocent guise? Yes. Happens everyday. Seen it. Reported it. Seen it dealt with.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: February 16, 2020 03:00PM
Quote
Rick-o
> if I saw you filming my child, in public or not, if you didn’t do some very convincing talking, I’d KYA. And the “K” doesn’t stand for “kiss”. And, if you refused to delete the images, I would destroy your phone/camera.

Perhaps you should calm down. No one has to answer to you if what is being filmed in public, your family members or whatever. You would risk assault & battery charges if you attack the photog and destroy his property.

With all the people out there filming every public freakout, I'm certain you would end up on the short end of the stick.

Like I said, perhaps you should calm down.

I’ve seen where this can lead. Like I said, protecting a child? You’re so attached to these photos you’d refuse to delete them? Yeah, no “freaking out”, but you’re going to answer to me. Yes, I would risk the consequences.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: space-time
Date: February 16, 2020 03:00PM
why are we talking about pedophiles here? the child was well dressed, he was dancing, there was no sign of any sexual or pedophile activity from me or anyone else in that crowd.

Jesus... this discussion went off tracks. or maybe not. it definitely took an interesting turn.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: February 16, 2020 03:15PM
Quote
space-time
why are we talking about pedophiles here? the child was well dressed, he was dancing,

Sadly, this can make no difference.

Quote

there was no sign of any sexual or pedophile activity from me or anyone else in that crowd.

His parent had enough concern to stop you, whether he shared all of them with you or not.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 16, 2020 09:16PM
Quote
space-time
why are we talking about pedophiles here?

Because photographers are treated as 'almost' boogeymen when no real boogeyman is present.

Ask any security guard.



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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: February 17, 2020 01:00AM
why are we talking about pedophiles here?

Because:

...photographers are treated as 'almost' boogeymen when no real boogeyman is present.

Ask any security guard.



Because photographers are treated as 'almost' boogeymen when no real boogeyman is present.

Ask any security guard.


That ^.


His parent had enough concern to stop you


Though he had no legal right, and baseless concern. And by basis, I mean actual basis, not because of something he merely conjured.


but you’re going to answer to me.


And were I present, you'd be answering to me.

To me, and that's what counts, worse than heinous criminal activity is self-entitled vigilante violence under the guise of innocence, justice and mere righteous indignation, inflicted upon the innocent.

I can't begin to count all the instances I'm aware of in which people have violently assaulted or killed and innocent party because mistaken identity or misunderstanding. The number of times some A/H or A/hs said 'I thought...' as though it was the victims fault sickens me still. These are just my data points. There are thousands more. Tens of thousands.


Yes, I would risk the consequences.

And I would do my part eliminating the risk to make that happen for you.


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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: February 17, 2020 01:27AM
People do crazy stuff because they are scared, when there is no significant evidence to give their fear cause.

Thanks media outlets.......... and politicians who feed on the media.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: February 17, 2020 03:53AM
I’ve been a victim who got lucky. I’ve talked to a predator, seen the evidence. I know too many victims. I’ve seen the damage. This isn’t about media hysteria.

People imagine someone running up wild eyed, ranting at every stranger with a camera. Never said that. Read what I’ve said again, carefully, you might come away with a clearer picture.

No posturing (Only one person has used the phrase “to the death”, and it wasn’t me), simple statement of fact. RAM, you’re actually the avenue of first recourse, if you’re available.

Some are angry about their rights being violated. Frustrated with ‘vigilantes’. The topic makes me a little sick to my stomach.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2020 04:16AM by Blankity Blank.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Mr645
Date: February 17, 2020 06:38AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Mr645
You can film what happens in a public space, you cannot use the content for commercial or derogatory purposes.

I'm not sure why paparazzi get to do it. Maybe under guise of something being "newsworthy?"


News is not considered commercial. It would be illegal if the paparazzi used an image of a famous person eating lets say, a slice of pizza and selling the image to the pizzeria to use on their ads.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 17, 2020 08:35AM
.....private.....dancer.....



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2020 08:35AM by NewtonMP2100.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 17, 2020 12:09PM
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 17, 2020 12:44PM
Quote
Mr645
Quote
vision63
Quote
Mr645
You can film what happens in a public space, you cannot use the content for commercial or derogatory purposes.

I'm not sure why paparazzi get to do it. Maybe under guise of something being "newsworthy?"


News is not considered commercial. It would be illegal if the paparazzi used an image of a famous person eating lets say, a slice of pizza and selling the image to the pizzeria to use on their ads.

You're right. That's it.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 18, 2020 12:17AM
Quote
Blankity Blank
I’ve been a victim who got lucky. I’ve talked to a predator, seen the evidence. I know too many victims. I’ve seen the damage. This isn’t about media hysteria.

It would be helpful if you could draw the line between a photo being taken and the resulting damage. You're mostly just saying "trust me, I've seen it."



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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 18, 2020 08:47AM
.....in all those 'procedural' shows.....that is how they get the pics of the kids that are kidnapped.........



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I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: Janit
Date: February 18, 2020 09:21AM
It's like believing photography steals people's souls.
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Re: can you film a toddler dancing in a public space?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: February 18, 2020 10:25AM
Huge difference here that I think has been overlooked, between what is legal and what is respectful. Yes I agree that the law allows for anyone in Public to be photographed by anyone else, that is Legal. But, if someone is not comfortable with that then perhaps the more Respectful thing to do would be to stop.

The OP was asking what is legal. On that we can agree.

Things got a bit off-track when we moved beyond that question.
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