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Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: February 23, 2020 10:11AM
Poll
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Poll: What Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?




Tesla Cybertruck



Pontiac Aztek








Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2020 10:19AM by pRICE cUBE.
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Re: Poll: What Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 23, 2020 10:19AM
They both look good to me. Both would look better as wagons.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: MacArtist
Date: February 23, 2020 10:29AM
The Space 1999 fans would go for the CyberTruck.



I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)

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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: davemchine
Date: February 23, 2020 10:34AM
I cannot envision anyone actually driving the CyberTruck. It looks like a joke.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 23, 2020 10:36AM
Quote
davemchine
I cannot envision anyone actually driving the CyberTruck. It looks like a joke.

The joke is on the person left at the light laughing at the CT.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: February 23, 2020 11:24AM
You guys still don't get the "to each his own" thing, do you?



BTW, it's spelled y'all
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 23, 2020 11:54AM
Quote
davemchine
I cannot envision anyone actually driving the CyberTruck. It looks like a joke.

It's Musk's joke. On who, I don't know.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: freeradical
Date: February 23, 2020 11:55AM
Why does the Tesla have those sharp edges?

Is it for stealth purposes, so the driver doesn't have to worry about police radar?
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: rz
Date: February 23, 2020 12:28PM
A friend drove an Aztek. He loved it, but it was pretty dang fugly.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Gareth
Date: February 23, 2020 12:33PM
I now think the 4th gen Prius is uglier than the Aztek...

Quote
freeradical
Why does the Tesla have those sharp edges?

Is it for stealth purposes, so the driver doesn't have to worry about police radar?

Without looking it up again, the explanation I read is that they are using the body panels for structural integrity, so the steel is thicker than usual and it's not economically possible to form curves into the steel at those thicknesses.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: February 23, 2020 01:01PM
Yes, manufacturing ease.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: February 23, 2020 01:12PM
Quote
davemchine
I cannot envision anyone actually driving the CyberTruck. It looks like a joke.

I'll take you for a ride in mine and have your wife take a few pictures. That will help you envision it.



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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: February 23, 2020 01:34PM
Quote
freeradical
Why does the Tesla have those sharp edges?

Is it for stealth purposes, so the driver doesn't have to worry about police radar?

Most trucks are body-on-frame. There are heavy duty rails that run the length of the truck. The engine is mounted between them in the front. The cab and bed are mounted to them behind that. The body is bolted to the frame. The cybertruck doesn't have those rails. The body is made out of thicker stainless steel that provides the structure to the vehicle. The steel is almost impossible to stamp. Instead it can be bent on relatively inexpensive machines. Since it's stainless there's no need for paint. Your car never rusts. If it's scratched you just buff it out with a scotchbrite pad. The shape allows it to have a low drag rating compared to conventional trucks. Without the rails the passenger compartment and the bed can be lower without sacrificing clearance. There are currently 550k pre-orders for this truck. Even if 50% are canceled, you'll definitely be seeing them driving around in a few years. Ford sold about 900k F150s last year. 2nd place Dodge was less than half that. Tesla could potentially enter the market in 2nd place or 3rd place and quickly displace Dodge and/or GM.



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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: GGD
Date: February 23, 2020 02:09PM
Quote
ztirffritz
Since it's stainless there's no need for paint. Your car never rusts. If it's scratched you just buff it out with a scotchbrite pad.

But if it's dented or in an accident, it's almost impossible to bend back into shape. This issue existed with DeLorean's too, and if you see a painted DeLorean it was most likely in an accident.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Buzz
Date: February 23, 2020 02:23PM
Fugly is in the eye of the beholder.
==
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: February 23, 2020 04:16PM
Quote
GGD
Quote
ztirffritz
Since it's stainless there's no need for paint. Your car never rusts. If it's scratched you just buff it out with a scotchbrite pad.

But if it's dented or in an accident, it's almost impossible to bend back into shape. This issue existed with DeLorean's too, and if you see a painted DeLorean it was most likely in an accident.





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MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Pat
Date: February 23, 2020 05:23PM
Quote
ztirffritz
Ford sold about 900k F150s last year. 2nd place Dodge was less than half that. Tesla could potentially enter the market in 2nd place or 3rd place and quickly displace Dodge and/or GM.

Ford sold nearly 900K F150s, 250s, and 350s. They do not break out their sales numbers by model. F150 numbers were probably less than 700k.
Dodge sold over 600K full size pickups. Like Ford, they do not break apart the sales by 1500/2500/3500.
Chevy/GMC combined sold over 700K full size pickups.

It looks like the GVWR of the Tesla will make it a medium duty, 2b, truck. So in states like California where you have to pay weight fees on pickups, your cost will be the same as an F250, Ram 2500, GM 2500. The problem with that is the Tesla has no where near the towing capacity or GCVWR of those trucks. And with that bed, you're not towing a fifth wheel or goose neck anyway.

So 1/2 ton pickup towing capacity at 3/4 ton DMV costs with having to work with that bed.
It definitely has its place and will force the big 3 to take action, but there's quite a few compromises to be made. Not going to be taking over job sites, or haul vehicle jobs anytime soon.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: February 24, 2020 03:01AM
Quote
freeradical
Why does the Tesla have those sharp edges?

Is it for stealth purposes, so the driver doesn't have to worry about police radar?

At least Musk went all-in on the hard edges design. The Aztek just looks like a mess to me. You've got hard lines, curves, bubbles, geometric shapes, indents, protrusions, flares, rails... you name it.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: February 24, 2020 04:06AM
Quote
GGD
Quote
ztirffritz
Since it's stainless there's no need for paint. Your car never rusts. If it's scratched you just buff it out with a scotchbrite pad.

But if it's dented or in an accident, it's almost impossible to bend back into shape. This issue existed with DeLorean's too, and if you see a painted DeLorean it was most likely in an accident.

The DeLorean didn't have an exoskeleton. It was more of a window dressing. There was a fiberglass skeleton underneath. The stainless panels hung off of that. It was a pretty unique car, but it isn't the same as the Cybertruck. The skin of the truck IS the frame. It is a load-bearing structure. Similar to how aircraft are built. I am curious to see what Tesla's plans are for repairing damage though. I suspect that there will be cutting and welding involved and it will likely leave some battle scars.



**************************************
MacResource User Map: [www.zeemaps.com]#



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2020 04:07AM by ztirffritz.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: February 24, 2020 04:39AM
Quote
ztirffritz
Quote
GGD
Quote
ztirffritz
Since it's stainless there's no need for paint. Your car never rusts. If it's scratched you just buff it out with a scotchbrite pad.

But if it's dented or in an accident, it's almost impossible to bend back into shape. This issue existed with DeLorean's too, and if you see a painted DeLorean it was most likely in an accident.

The DeLorean didn't have an exoskeleton. It was more of a window dressing. There was a fiberglass skeleton underneath. The stainless panels hung off of that. It was a pretty unique car, but it isn't the same as the Cybertruck. The skin of the truck IS the frame. It is a load-bearing structure. Similar to how aircraft are built. I am curious to see what Tesla's plans are for repairing damage though. I suspect that there will be cutting and welding involved and it will likely leave some battle scars.


Maybe the plan is to not repair but just have you buy another one.



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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: GGD
Date: February 24, 2020 04:56AM
I wonder what it will be like in a crash test. Here's a DeLorean crash test, the car in this test had airbags in 1980.

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: kurtzie
Date: February 24, 2020 06:19AM
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Quote
ztirffritz
Quote
GGD
Quote
ztirffritz
Since it's stainless there's no need for paint. Your car never rusts. If it's scratched you just buff it out with a scotchbrite pad.

But if it's dented or in an accident, it's almost impossible to bend back into shape. This issue existed with DeLorean's too, and if you see a painted DeLorean it was most likely in an accident.

The DeLorean didn't have an exoskeleton. It was more of a window dressing. There was a fiberglass skeleton underneath. The stainless panels hung off of that. It was a pretty unique car, but it isn't the same as the Cybertruck. The skin of the truck IS the frame. It is a load-bearing structure. Similar to how aircraft are built. I am curious to see what Tesla's plans are for repairing damage though. I suspect that there will be cutting and welding involved and it will likely leave some battle scars.


Maybe the plan is to not repair but just have you buy another one.

Like buying from Apple.
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: February 24, 2020 09:32AM
Quote
kurtzie
Quote
pRICE cUBE
Quote
ztirffritz
Quote
GGD
Quote
ztirffritz
Since it's stainless there's no need for paint. Your car never rusts. If it's scratched you just buff it out with a scotchbrite pad.

But if it's dented or in an accident, it's almost impossible to bend back into shape. This issue existed with DeLorean's too, and if you see a painted DeLorean it was most likely in an accident.

The DeLorean didn't have an exoskeleton. It was more of a window dressing. There was a fiberglass skeleton underneath. The stainless panels hung off of that. It was a pretty unique car, but it isn't the same as the Cybertruck. The skin of the truck IS the frame. It is a load-bearing structure. Similar to how aircraft are built. I am curious to see what Tesla's plans are for repairing damage though. I suspect that there will be cutting and welding involved and it will likely leave some battle scars.


Maybe the plan is to not repair but just have you buy another one.

Like buying from Apple.

Is Tesla glueing the battery in?



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: February 24, 2020 09:38AM
Quote
GGD
I wonder what it will be like in a crash test. Here's a DeLorean crash test, the car in this test had airbags in 1980.

[www.youtube.com]


Now I see why it was used as a time machine -- the last thing you see is your life flashing before your eyes.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: CW2V
Date: February 24, 2020 06:03PM
Quote
Ombligo
Quote
GGD
I wonder what it will be like in a crash test. Here's a DeLorean crash test, the car in this test had airbags in 1980.

[www.youtube.com]


Now I see why it was used as a time machine -- the last thing you see is your life flashing before your eyes.

Best comment:

"...Some even joke not to wear seat belts opting to be thrown clear. I carry a extinguisher velcroed to the seat supports on the floorboard. Also carry a ASP baton to knock out windows. Its been reported that the side glass panels are designed to be easily kicked/knocked out. They also say the car is almost impossible to flip. However, stunned, upside down and on fire is not a good time to find out if either statement is true."
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Rolando
Date: February 24, 2020 09:32PM
I would like to present the Aztek's successor, the similarly shaped, but less melty-looking Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross




San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2020 09:33PM by Rolando.
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Re: Poll: What Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Thrift Store Scott
Date: February 25, 2020 03:30AM
Quote
Speedy
They both look good to me.

I wouldn't go quite that far.

Quote
Speedy
Both would look better as wagons.

Agreed.

To me the Aztek always looked like a Pontiac Phoenix that someone had mounted on a 4WD Blazer chassis and then added an ill-conceived Mad Max-style body kit to it to try and hide their sins.

As I've said before, the Cybertruck appears to have been conceived by people who have never owned a real pickup truck nor have they ever used one for it's intended purpose. It also seems to be the logical design progression of the original Honda Ridgeline.



Lie to me if you must, but don't lie to me and insult my intelligence in the same sentence.

Resist the Thought Police: George Orwell's book 1984 was meant as a warning, not an instruction manual.

"Political correctness is just intellectual colonialism and psychological fascism for the creation of thought crime" - Steve Hughes

"I don't see color, I just see ugly" - Joe Jitsukawa
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: February 25, 2020 09:30AM
The reality is that probably 90+% of pickups are not used for their intended purpose. One can then logically deduce that the 'intended purpose' has been misrepresented.

Most pickups are used as passenger vehicles. They occasionally haul some top soil, move a table and chairs, or perhaps carry some camping gear. The frequency with which pickups actually tow a trailer is really incredibly low compared to the miles driven without a trailer. If you're one of the people who actually does use a pickup as a work truck for hauling and towing...congrats, you're profoundly in the minority of truck owners and should stand proudly with you head held high with well deserved bragging rights for your wisdom regarding selecting the right tool for the job. There are 330,000,000 Americans in the US and somewhere between 20-30% of them drive pickup trucks (close to 30% in Texas). About 80% of Americans live in areas classified as 'urban'. How many of them are hauling horse trailers, moving manure, loads of I-beams, etc? You see where I'm going I'm sure. Trucks are marketed to Americans who think of themselves as still living on their great grandfather's farm or ranch, yet they're 1-2 generations removed from farming or ranching. The VAST majority of trucks will likely never drive on gravel, let alone dirt. I think that the argument about the Cybertruck not being suited to 'real' work is valid. It can do it, but it isn't intended for that purpose, and wasn't designed with that in mind. It won't haul a 5th wheel anytime soon, but it, nor any other pickup, will likely need to. Most never do. Probably less than 2% of pickups sold are used for that purpose. It will be more suited for the foreman to drive from site to site, or for the person hauling a few bikes into the mountains for a weekend of glamping. I have no doubt that the truck will change the market forever moving forward, but it isn't intended for the purpose that people think it is. Elon Musk is notorious for designing from basic principles. He and the Tesla designers, defined what they were going to make and then worked forward from there.



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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Pat
Date: February 25, 2020 11:09AM
Then why make a truck with a 3500# payload rating and a medium duty GVWR?
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: February 25, 2020 03:52PM
Quote
Pat
Then why make a truck with a 3500# payload rating and a medium duty GVWR?

two reasons -- Compensating and profit margin.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

"WE CALL BS!" -- Emma Gonzalez
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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: February 25, 2020 06:14PM
Primarily because the hauling and towing capacity are how people arbitrarily compare trucks. Few people EVER come close to fully loading a pickup to the GVWR, and fewer still come close to the towing limit, so while the comparisons may or may not be meaningful they do provide a baseline comparison. Cybertruck's weight is going to be a problem in the current classification system. I imagine Tesla is already working on lobbying to get that changed. Hauling around the batteries pushes it into a higher class than it should be. Is it better or worse because of those batteries? I can't say yet, but it's definitely different from offerings from Ford, Chevy, or Dodge.

The F250 is rated 2400-4300ish pounds of hauling capacity. That puts the Cybertruck's 3,500 right in the middle of the hauling capacity of that model, and exceeds the F150 max by 1000lbs. I read somewhere that most trailers are hauled by pickups less than 100miles but I can't find that reference now, so take it with a grain of salt. If true though, that means Cybertruck should be fine for most towing jobs, but I imagine if it's loaded up to it's max it's range will suffer significantly, just as an F150's would. The big question is just how much range is lost? Testing on the Model X would indicate that it's probably ALOT. I'd guess 50% or more, so a 3-motor Cybertruck might end up with a range of 250 mile or less range total at full load, despite having a 500mile range unladen. An F150 probably gets around 15mpg and has 25-35 gallon tank (I'm pulling those numbers out of the air, so could be quite far off). I'd guess it has a range around 300-400 miles towing. I'd say if you plan to tow a trailer routinely, the Cybertruck isn't the best option.



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Re: Poll: What's Fuglier, Tesla Cybertruck or Pontiac Aztek?
Posted by: Rolando
Date: February 25, 2020 09:37PM
Using the Model X to tow reduced range by more than 50%. I would expect the same for the CT.
[youtu.be]
[youtu.be]
An F150 will get 8-10 MPG while towing, so a 50% reduction in range as well.
[www.tfltruck.com]

As for it's intended buyer, I offer the term Bro Dozer
[www.urbandictionary.com]

Quote
ztirffritz
The F250 is rated 2400-4300ish pounds of hauling capacity. That puts the Cybertruck's 3,500 right in the middle of the hauling capacity of that model, and exceeds the F150 max by 1000lbs. I read somewhere that most trailers are hauled by pickups less than 100miles but I can't find that reference now, so take it with a grain of salt. If true though, that means Cybertruck should be fine for most towing jobs, but I imagine if it's loaded up to it's max it's range will suffer significantly, just as an F150's would. The big question is just how much range is lost? Testing on the Model X would indicate that it's probably ALOT. I'd guess 50% or more, so a 3-motor Cybertruck might end up with a range of 250 mile or less range total at full load, despite having a 500mile range unladen. An F150 probably gets around 15mpg and has 25-35 gallon tank (I'm pulling those numbers out of the air, so could be quite far off). I'd guess it has a range around 300-400 miles towing. I'd say if you plan to tow a trailer routinely, the Cybertruck isn't the best option.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2020 09:41PM by Rolando.
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