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Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 09, 2020 10:07PM
We are being forced to go online using web-based apps for our Outlook and other office apps like OneDrive.

There is no way these are more productive for even a minimally trained user than our existing purchased Office 2016 suite.

So there has to be a reason - I keep thinking it's literally to make it HARDER for a user to use. In that way, it means I cannot actually move large files around or do anything nefarious, in the eyes of IT 'security'.

The problem is that it is MY JOB to move such files around - I am a scientist, and we GENERATE and MODIFY and even SHARE large files.

Office is not a great tool for sharing such files, of course. But once we've trimmed the data down to smaller units, Office could at least be used. But now - now, we have turned these fine Macs into GDMED glorified Chromebooks.

So I ask - what was WRONG with computers that ran dedicated programs rather than a browser-based, cloud hardware. If I had WANTED an iPad, I would have BOUGHT an iPad.

I am serious - tell me, oh wise MRFers, what is the logic around crippling modern computers? Is it REALLY that hard to have 'managed' hardware? If they want to record every keystroke and leave the camera on, I would hate it but it would sure be boring for them. But at least, living is such a fish bowl, I could work rather than trying to drink digitally through a tiny straw.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2020 10:08PM by sekker.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: April 09, 2020 10:14PM
Quote
sekker
We are being forced to go online using web-based apps for our Outlook and other office apps like OneDrive.

There is no way these are more productive for even a minimally trained user than our fully Office 2016 suite.

So there has to be a reason...

I haven't seen enterprises or government offices move to cloud-based apps, but they are moving more and more to using OneDrive to store and share files because it's cheap and easy and it integrates smoothly with existing Active Directory services.

Small offices move to cloud-based apps because of the pricing. It's roughly 1/3rd the price per user for an Office license that only includes "cloud" versions of the apps.



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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 09, 2020 10:18PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
sekker
We are being forced to go online using web-based apps for our Outlook and other office apps like OneDrive.

There is no way these are more productive for even a minimally trained user than our fully Office 2016 suite.

So there has to be a reason...

I haven't seen enterprises or government offices move to cloud-based apps, but they are moving more and more to using OneDrive to store and share files because it's cheap and easy and it integrates smoothly with existing Active Directory services.

Small offices move to cloud-based apps because of the pricing. It's roughly 1/3rd the price per user for an Office license that only includes "cloud" versions of the apps.

They blocked OneDrive as a native app, so the only way Macs can access is through a web app.

Cost cannot be the only factor - we already own the perpetual 2016 licenses to Office they are deprecating and/or abandoning.

And this is not a 'small' business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2020 10:19PM by sekker.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: April 09, 2020 11:14PM
Businesses like subscription software as opposed to purchased software for a number of reasons:

- Subscription software is typically treated as an operating expense as opposed to a capital expense, which makes funding much easier to come by;
- For the same reason, developing a budget for annual software expenditures becomes much easier;
- Subscription software often comes with manufacturer support included in the subscription price;
- Subscription software ensures that the latest version of the software is always available to the user;
- If the subscription software is hosted in the cloud, the user is relieved of the need to purchase and support the hardware required to run it. Support costs include labor, electricity and cooling; there is also a cost associated with the space required in the telecomm closet for the equipment;
- All of the above is also true for cloud-based storage.

BTW, Office 365 licensing includes the right to download and run a client on your local computer -- you should be running that on your Mac. I've never heard of anybody using a cloud-based front end for Office client apps.



It is what it is.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2020 01:10AM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: April 09, 2020 11:25PM
You should be able to install the native client for Macs and then sign in with your O365 credentials. The download should be in your account when sign in. Unless they got the "free" O365 for EDU which only gives you the online versions and then you have to pay for each client license of the full office suite.



C(-)ris
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 10, 2020 06:53AM
Quote
C(-)ris
You should be able to install the native client for Macs and then sign in with your O365 credentials. The download should be in your account when sign in. Unless they got the "free" O365 for EDU which only gives you the online versions and then you have to pay for each client license of the full office suite.

This is us.

And they have actively shut off features for those of us with active licenses.

Again, the latter is not a cost saving - we already own the software on many tens of thousands of machines.

This ‘transition’ / deprecation has been facilitated by COVID.

All public descriptions for why is this is for ‘security’.

I guess your answers reflect as much confusion as I have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2020 06:54AM by sekker.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: Lew Zealand
Date: April 10, 2020 11:00AM
Quote
C(-)ris
You should be able to install the native client for Macs and then sign in with your O365 credentials. The download should be in your account when sign in. Unless they got the "free" O365 for EDU which only gives you the online versions and then you have to pay for each client license of the full office suite.

This this this.

You probably have a license for that and can download and install the full O365 Office apps to your Mac. They're pretty much redundant with your perpetual Office 2016 license but they are the full apps.

And about that "perpetual" license. That will be going away in about a year. I work for a similar place and we've been informed that all Office will be subscription model moving forward. Not our choice, Microsoft's. I have an O365 license and downloaded the full Office apps from there.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: April 10, 2020 11:04AM
Maybe because they have no idea how users use the software.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: April 10, 2020 11:11AM
Quote
C(-)ris
You should be able to install the native client for Macs and then sign in with your O365 credentials. The download should be in your account when sign in...

If they were on an enterprise plan, this is probably going away.

The new/rebranded Microsoft 365 plans for business start with cloud-only subscriptions. It's not just for .edu anymore.



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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: John B.
Date: April 10, 2020 11:22AM
I can think of several reasons, all or none may apply here:

1. Office 365 license plan purchased. Just for example, not every Office 365 plan allows an Outlook client to access the mailbox. Some are browser-only, some allow Outlook to connect (but you have to have purchased the program license separately), some include the Outlook client.
2. Cost (see also #1). The Office 365 licenses that are "browser only" are cheaper than the ones that include local executables.
3. Security. Everyone went home and started using personal machines, and the security team said "we can't put controls around this fast enough, so everyone is going to browser-only to control data loss until we can put MDM and policies in place"
4. Speed of implementation. Huge demand all of a sudden on IT to have people work remote, so they went lowest common denominator and said "we'll teach everyone browser-only to start and figure out the complex stuff later"
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: April 10, 2020 11:25AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
C(-)ris
You should be able to install the native client for Macs and then sign in with your O365 credentials. The download should be in your account when sign in...

If they were on an enterprise plan, this is probably going away.

The new/rebranded Microsoft 365 plans for business start with cloud-only subscriptions. It's not just for .edu anymore.

Depends on what level you buy, AKA how cheap your employer is. I'm still trying to work out Microsoft licensing for work to get what we need but not at an insane price. First quote was $22k per year for 3000 students, 350 staff, 2 VM ware hosts and 2 dozen VMs.

I'm looking at the same reality as Sekker's institution. Dump Office for the web versions and save about $18K and then buy a limited number of perpetual volume licenses for Office 2019 to cover the power users in Finance and Secretaries.

I can definitely see for a large organization seeing that bill and saying, well, the free one will just have to do.



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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 10, 2020 11:27AM
Thanks, all. Though useful, the category that is baffling me:

1) Our organization owns thousands of perpetual licenses for Office 2016. I know, I purchased many of them through my office. These are on existing and managed devices.

2) This functionality THAT WE ALREADY PAID FOR is being deprecated. So business, NOT PERSONAL, devices are losing Office 2016 for cloud-only tools.

Are you telling me that a full managed device (which may or may not include a keystroke recorder) is less safe than a personal device using the web client for Office 365? If that's the argument, what BS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2020 11:27AM by sekker.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: Buck
Date: April 10, 2020 11:27AM
I have the local apps as well as the 365 license. Our corporate Exchange server seems to need reboots all the time. Sometimes I lose all my emails, and it takes hours to repopulate them on my MBP and iPhone. I wonder if it's our IT or Microsoft?
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: April 10, 2020 11:52AM
Quote
sekker
Thanks, all. Though useful, the category that is baffling me:

1) Our organization owns thousands of perpetual licenses for Office 2016. I know, I purchased many of them through my office. These are on existing and managed devices.

2) This functionality THAT WE ALREADY PAID FOR is being deprecated. So business, NOT PERSONAL, devices are losing Office 2016 for cloud-only tools.

"Deprecated" doesn't mean "terminated."

If you have a perpetual license and they aren't actively removing the software from your computer there's no particular reason to stop using it.



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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: April 10, 2020 11:54AM
Quote
Buck
I have the local apps as well as the 365 license. Our corporate Exchange server seems to need reboots all the time. Sometimes I lose all my emails, and it takes hours to repopulate them on my MBP and iPhone. I wonder if it's our IT or Microsoft?

Might be none of the above.

See if webmail works when that happens. If OWA is working then the problem may just be with activesync on the server and isolating it to that component may help IT if you open a ticket.

If your mailboxes are empty in OWA then it points to a corrupt mailbox. They might be able to make you a new one (resetting the entirety of your email/calendar/contacts) and fix it moving forward.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2020 11:56AM by Sarcany.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: JoeH
Date: April 10, 2020 12:08PM
Quote
Buck
I have the local apps as well as the 365 license. Our corporate Exchange server seems to need reboots all the time. Sometimes I lose all my emails, and it takes hours to repopulate them on my MBP and iPhone. I wonder if it's our IT or Microsoft?

Probably a bit of both. Exchange has always been a bit fragile, IT practices can make it much worse.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 10, 2020 04:27PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
sekker
Thanks, all. Though useful, the category that is baffling me:

1) Our organization owns thousands of perpetual licenses for Office 2016. I know, I purchased many of them through my office. These are on existing and managed devices.

2) This functionality THAT WE ALREADY PAID FOR is being deprecated. So business, NOT PERSONAL, devices are losing Office 2016 for cloud-only tools.

"Deprecated" doesn't mean "terminated."

If you have a perpetual license and they aren't actively removing the software from your computer there's no particular reason to stop using it.

As I posted, 'depracated' DOES mean 'terminated'. They started by blocking OneDrive client on the Mac (which literally is not allowed to connect to OneDrive); this single step guts a series of interconnectivity.

They have followed by making Outlook have reduced (though not yet blocked) functionality.

It's like watching my entire toolbox slowly stop working.
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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: April 10, 2020 08:02PM
Quote
sekker
As I posted, 'depracated' DOES mean 'terminated'. They started by blocking OneDrive client on the Mac (which literally is not allowed to connect to OneDrive); this single step guts a series of interconnectivity...

They may not have done that deliberately.

I've had clients lose OneDrive after a server migration. Platform-support is enabled with a checkbox deep in the settings and by default it will not support Macs. Of course, getting someone from IT to update that setting is next to impossible. So, Mac users inevitably have to use the web app which is iffy under Safari. Chrome works pretty well, but it's... Chrome... so I can't recommend it.



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Re: Enterprise pros - explain to me the logic of modern device management
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 10, 2020 08:51PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
sekker
As I posted, 'depracated' DOES mean 'terminated'. They started by blocking OneDrive client on the Mac (which literally is not allowed to connect to OneDrive); this single step guts a series of interconnectivity...

They may not have done that deliberately.

I've had clients lose OneDrive after a server migration. Platform-support is enabled with a checkbox deep in the settings and by default it will not support Macs. Of course, getting someone from IT to update that setting is next to impossible. So, Mac users inevitably have to use the web app which is iffy under Safari. Chrome works pretty well, but it's... Chrome... so I can't recommend it.

Alas, I wish this were true. The shutoff is intentional and, in this case, deliberate due to 'security concerns'.

Those concerns are NOT shared by Microsoft, their support documents, or Apple.

But I digress. There could be a simple case of Hanlon's Razor.
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