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Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 21, 2020 09:39AM
Would it be better to do two 10 minute rowing sessions, one in the morning, one in the afternoon, or one longer 15-20 minute session once a day? As I get better, the time would increase, but not sure whether two workouts or one is better
My main goal is better fitness and a little weight loss.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: mikebw
Date: May 21, 2020 10:00AM
Being able to do a 20 minute session would require a higher level of overall fitness, but if unable to do that maybe doing two 10-min sessions would be better.
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: norse
Date: May 21, 2020 10:07AM
If you've never done these before, it's better to start slow. Otherwise,you'll get burned out and not do the exercise anymore. Increase the time and number of times per day as you progress.
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: May 21, 2020 10:13AM
A longer single session is higher intensity overall.

You're just getting started so its really whichever you enjoy more. If you're wiped out after 10 minutes I'd say that you're going to hard. There's a lot of value in maintaining a pace where you can still talk. It usually takes me about 20 minutes to warm up on the bike so if you're stopping after 10 minutes you're probably not properly warmed up yet.

As your fitness doctor, I prescribe 20 minutes at a nice maintainable pace, whatever that is for you.



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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 21, 2020 10:26AM
Thanks for the input so far.
Since rowing is new to me, I wanted to start out slow so I don’t pull something that hasn’t been used in a while.
Ten minutes gets me sweating a little and I can feel it. I am mostly having to get my butt used to the seat and position.
I have been trying out different things to pad the seat, and that is helping, but I don’t think I could do twenty minutes straight right now, mostly because of butt pain. Also, I have more lower body strength than upper, so the rowing should be helping me gradually build my upper.
The intensity is about 550-600 calories an hour, if that tells you anything.
I guess the main thing is to do it, whether one or two.
I have made it my goal to use the machine every day for a month. I have done it every day since I got it assembled, so seven days, I think. Fingers crossed.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: ztirffritz
Date: May 21, 2020 10:26AM
I was told that the benefit of exercise came from elevating one's heart rate a certain percentage above the resting rate and sustaining that for 30min. I don't recall what that percentage was unfortunately. Having said that, if you are just starting, any exercise that raises your heart rate for any length of time is the best option. Do what you can to sustain it for 10,20, or 30 minutes. After a few weeks increase the intensity to increase the benefit.

According to my Apple watch, my heart rate more than doubles when I'm mtn biking. It goes from 55bpm to around 130-150bpm.



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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: May 21, 2020 10:35AM
Do what you can. Something is better than nothing. You'll get better as you go.

We bought a rowing machine for Christmas. I've found that getting around 35 strokes per minute doesn't really wear me out enough. So I had to speed it up. Alternatively, I can adjust the resistance but right now it's set about in the middle I think. I averaged 39 strokes per minute for 30 minutes and that was a pretty good workout. I also hated the seat so I found a nice fat padded one on Amazon made for the machine. It just straps on. It was literally night and day. Makes a HUGE difference.




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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 21, 2020 10:54AM
Quote
bazookaman
Do what you can. Something is better than nothing. You'll get better as you go.

We bought a rowing machine for Christmas. I've found that getting around 35 strokes per minute doesn't really wear me out enough. So I had to speed it up. Alternatively, I can adjust the resistance but right now it's set about in the middle I think. I averaged 39 strokes per minute for 30 minutes and that was a pretty good workout. I also hated the seat so I found a nice fat padded one on Amazon made for the machine. It just straps on. It was literally night and day. Makes a HUGE difference.

I think I saw that seat. I was thinking about getting one.
Does the thickness throw off your form?
I could not believe how much the seat made my butt hurt.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 21, 2020 10:54AM
....well, some fitness people argue that shorter, more high intensity workouts [ that get your heart rate up ]......can work better than a longer one......



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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 21, 2020 10:56AM
Quote
NewtonMP2100
....well, some fitness people argue that shorter, more high intensity workouts [ that get your heart rate up ]......can work better than a longer one......

I think that because of the seat issue, I may have to try that for now.
If I can get a good pad, that should make it easier to sit longer.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: May 21, 2020 11:00AM
Quote
rgG
Quote
bazookaman
Do what you can. Something is better than nothing. You'll get better as you go.

We bought a rowing machine for Christmas. I've found that getting around 35 strokes per minute doesn't really wear me out enough. So I had to speed it up. Alternatively, I can adjust the resistance but right now it's set about in the middle I think. I averaged 39 strokes per minute for 30 minutes and that was a pretty good workout. I also hated the seat so I found a nice fat padded one on Amazon made for the machine. It just straps on. It was literally night and day. Makes a HUGE difference.

I think I saw that seat. I was thinking about getting one.
Does the thickness throw off your form?
I could not believe how much the seat made my butt hurt.

Haha. Yes. It looks REALLY thick. And it is. But it compresses a lot. So no, it does not affect your form. Just makes it more comfy. I'm telling you. Night and day.




__________________________________
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: Todd's keyboard
Date: May 21, 2020 11:06AM
In “Fit or Fat,” Covert Bailey claimed that it was important to exercise aerobically for a minimum of twelve minutes, once a day.

People don’t seem to talk much about Bailey’s ideas these days, so add his advice to items to be taken with grains and salts.

One of the best things I’ve found about exercising on a rowing machine is that it has been injury free for me for over ten years and 26 million meters. When I hear about how many times runners have to take breaks and bicyclists get injured in accidents, I’m happy to stick with rowing.

The bare seat on the Concept 2 was too hard for my wife and me. Fortunately, Concept 2 offers a special, cut-to-seat, foam pad with an adhesive backing on one side. They sent it to us for free after I had made an inquiry. I don’t know why they didn’t just ship it with the original order for the erg.

The pad made a huge difference at the beginning. Even though it’s been compressed after ten years, I never removed it.

It’s great to hear that you are using your new water rower. I imagine in a pinch, the agitator could be used as a makeshift washer for small items. :-)

Todd’s kinetic keyboard
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 21, 2020 11:56AM
Quote
bazookaman
Quote
rgG
Quote
bazookaman
Do what you can. Something is better than nothing. You'll get better as you go.

We bought a rowing machine for Christmas. I've found that getting around 35 strokes per minute doesn't really wear me out enough. So I had to speed it up. Alternatively, I can adjust the resistance but right now it's set about in the middle I think. I averaged 39 strokes per minute for 30 minutes and that was a pretty good workout. I also hated the seat so I found a nice fat padded one on Amazon made for the machine. It just straps on. It was literally night and day. Makes a HUGE difference.

I think I saw that seat. I was thinking about getting one.
Does the thickness throw off your form?
I could not believe how much the seat made my butt hurt.

Haha. Yes. It looks REALLY thick. And it is. But it compresses a lot. So no, it does not affect your form. Just makes it more comfy. I'm telling you. Night and day.

Thanks. I think I will be ordering a pad today.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: norse
Date: May 21, 2020 11:56AM
Quote
Todd's keyboard
In “Fit or Fat,” Covert Bailey claimed that it was important to exercise aerobically for a minimum of twelve minutes, once a day.

People don’t seem to talk much about Bailey’s ideas these days, so add his advice to items to be taken with grains and salts.

One of the best things I’ve found about exercising on a rowing machine is that it has been injury free for me for over ten years and 26 million meters. When I hear about how many times runners have to take breaks and bicyclists get injured in accidents, I’m happy to stick with rowing.

The bare seat on the Concept 2 was too hard for my wife and me. Fortunately, Concept 2 offers a special, cut-to-seat, foam pad with an adhesive backing on one side. They sent it to us for free after I had made an inquiry. I don’t know why they didn’t just ship it with the original order for the erg.

The pad made a huge difference at the beginning. Even though it’s been compressed after ten years, I never removed it.

It’s great to hear that you are using your new water rower. I imagine in a pinch, the agitator could be used as a makeshift washer for small items. :-)

Todd’s kinetic keyboard

No shoulder rotator cuff nor elbow problems?
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 21, 2020 11:59AM
Quote
Todd's keyboard
I imagine in a pinch, the agitator could be used as a makeshift washer for small items. :-)

Todd’s kinetic keyboard

Oooo, if only I could figure out how to get them in and out of the tiny fill hole. smiling smiley





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: May 21, 2020 12:18PM
My eyes glazed over after a bit, but I didn't see an answer to the two 10min vs one 20min workout question.

Getting in shape to do more is a foregone conclusion, as noted in 'As I get better...'

So once a level of tone above 'starting easy' is achieved, what then?

People how actually row (on water) would seem to do one session.

HIT regimens seem to be in vogue, as do 7min workout workout sessions. So maybe health benefits can be had with short sessions of rowing.

I have no physiotherapy background or training.

There are those who do that say a brisk 30min walk daily reduces the chance of a heart attack, and that the walk can be accumulative throughout the day.

I'd think rowing would be more rigorous, more intensive, even at a gentle pace. Rowers, what say you? If the affects of a brisk multi-segmented walk can be applied to rowing, then maybe the difference between the two options in minimal.

My preference would be to do one workout session of a desired period, if for no other reason to leave the rest of the day open.

I'd say until you get some vetted info, do what's comfortable and convenient. I need to shower after a workout and prefer to do that just once a day, if possible.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

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Two short or one longer?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 21, 2020 01:27PM
......most women (and some men) would prefer one longer......



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I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: Todd's keyboard
Date: May 21, 2020 01:34PM
Query in response to years-long rowing.

Quote
norse
No shoulder rotator cuff nor elbow problems?

Surprisingly, no. There was a short period some years back when my knees started hurting a bit. I changed shoes, and the problem went away.

To further clarify, I wear the same pair of shoes when exercising. These shoes never go outside, so I feel comfortable wearing them around the house. Since the shoes only get used for very specific purposes, they don't wear out quickly.

My goal has been to (virtually) row around the world. To meet that goal, I row a 10k 5-6 times per week. As I age, that 10k takes longer and longer. Currently, it usually takes a bit longer than an hour.

Well-meaning friends—when hearing about my schedule—try to convince me to try High Internal Training. My response is usually something along the lines of, "Why?"

I'm not rowing to compete. I'm not rowing to gain strength. I'm rowing for aerobic exercise. So far, it's been injury free and I'm accomplishing my goal. I can't imagine why I would want to change that.

On most days after rowing the 10K, my body just feels good walking down the street.

Not that I'm an expert, but I did take some PE and Kinesiology courses as part of my undergraduate work. A strong take-away from those courses was that there is no one best way to exercise, just as there is no one best car. (Is a station wagon the best car? Perhaps, if the driver has a large family. Not as much for a single person living in an urban area.) Questions about length and type of exercise need to be clarified. What is the person's goal?

I have no interest in competing. Had I an interest, I would start incorporating Fartlek and/or HIT training. (Never could figure out the differences and similarities.) I would also add more sessions to the day, and try to row at the same time as the scheduled race.

My interest is elevate my heart rate and to add kilometers to my goal every day. For my schedule, it works well early. After exercising, I take a shower and am ready for the day. It would be hard to break the routine into two sessions as I don't have a convenient way to take a second shower during the day.

Yesterday, I didn't have a chance to row. Had to take the iMac in to have the SSD and hard drive transferred to external cases. That adventure took up the time for rowing. Felt a slight sense of anxiety, as I knew I wouldn't make it up today, or ever.

Which routine is the best? Can't answer without more specifics about the individual's goals, current level, and schedule.

Todd's aerobically-pedantic keyboard
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: AllGold
Date: May 21, 2020 02:25PM
I have simple advice. The best way to exercise is to actually do it. wink smiley

As you start out, do whatever you're comfortable with; whatever keeps you doing it.



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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 21, 2020 02:36PM
Quote
AllGold
I have simple advice. The best way to exercise is to actually do it. wink smiley

As you start out, do whatever you're comfortable with; whatever keeps you doing it.

That is sort of what I am thinking. I want to start slow so that I get used to the routine and try to develop a decent form. 10 minutes at a pretty good clip seems like a good starting point.
Since the waterrower increases resistance automatically, the harder/faster you row, the more resistance you feel, it is pretty easy to adjust on the fly while exercising.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: norse
Date: May 21, 2020 05:06PM
Quote
rgG
Quote
AllGold
I have simple advice. The best way to exercise is to actually do it. wink smiley

As you start out, do whatever you're comfortable with; whatever keeps you doing it.

That is sort of what I am thinking. I want to start slow so that I get used to the routine and try to develop a decent form. 10 minutes at a pretty good clip seems like a good starting point.
Since the waterrower increases resistance automatically, the harder/faster you row, the more resistance you feel, it is pretty easy to adjust on the fly while exercising.

Which model Waterrower do you have? Any many major difference between the entry level to one or two steps up?

I looked at these several years ago but I wasn't sure I would use it.

I just need it for cardio.
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 21, 2020 05:40PM
I have the waterrower natural.
I think the main difference in the models is the electronics.
The read out on mine pretty basic, mine has the S4 display, I think.
If you want BT and more interactive stuff, that’s where it costs more.
I do not have a heart rate monitor attached to mine. You could always monitor HR with an Apple watch or Fitbit





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: May 21, 2020 06:09PM
I want to start slow so that I get used to the routine and try to develop a decent form. 10 minutes at a pretty good clip seems like a good starting point.


Given that qualifier, I'd say only once a day.

I've known a lot of workout enthusiasts (non-competitive, non-professional types) who subscribe to the no pain no gain mantra, and routinely bragged about their workout injuries.

For some, I think it was an excuse not to work out.

I don't consider a little ache or slight soreness as pain, merely weakness leaving the body and an indicator of sorts of progress. My NPNG days are long over with.

As far as I'm concerned, pain is your body saying 'You screwed up'.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: rgG
Date: May 21, 2020 09:28PM
Yeah, I am not into pain.
I am ok if I feel like I had a workout, but pain means I need to do something differently.
I did do an extra 10 minutes tonight, but mostly to relieve some stress. smiling smiley





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: Sam3
Date: May 22, 2020 04:07AM
Quote
bazookaman
Quote
rgG
Quote
bazookaman
Do what you can. Something is better than nothing. You'll get better as you go.

We bought a rowing machine for Christmas. I've found that getting around 35 strokes per minute doesn't really wear me out enough. So I had to speed it up. Alternatively, I can adjust the resistance but right now it's set about in the middle I think. I averaged 39 strokes per minute for 30 minutes and that was a pretty good workout. I also hated the seat so I found a nice fat padded one on Amazon made for the machine. It just straps on. It was literally night and day. Makes a HUGE difference.

I think I saw that seat. I was thinking about getting one.
Does the thickness throw off your form?
I could not believe how much the seat made my butt hurt.

Haha. Yes. It looks REALLY thick. And it is. But it compresses a lot. So no, it does not affect your form. Just makes it more comfy. I'm telling you. Night and day.

I would like to comment that if you are doing a 39 stroke rate, you aren't doing the stroke properly. When rowing, you primarily will use your leg muscles to get the explosiveness that gets the flywheel/paddles to come up to speed. A slower stroke rate allows the flywheel/paddles to slow down, meaning that you will expend more energy on the next stroke to get it back up to speed. I'll let Concept 2 explain it, they can do it better than me:

[www.concept2.com]

[www.concept2.com]

Quote
Concept2
An important notion to understand is that an increased stroke rate does not necessarily mean that you are working out with more intensity. Instead, the key to increasing intensity is knowing how and when to apply power. Focus on getting as much power as you can into each drive/pull. To focus on this power:

For rowing, think of using a ratio of one beat on each drive for every two beats on the recovery. In other words, don’t rush as you travel up the slide to take the next stroke. Instead, relax on the recovery as you prepare for the work of the next drive. See How to Row Harder for more information.

Essentially an average stroke rate for a decent workout should be between 24-28.

Quote
Concept2
24-28 spm - These stroke rates tend to be comfortable for steady state workouts. These rates are slow enough to allow for good, strong technique that can be maintained. This range is recommended for longer workouts.

Anecdotally, I can tell you that this information has been verified by my daughter, who is on her school's rowing team.

Here is an 8-week rowing plan for beginners. Though there is some cross-training involved, which you may or may not want to do. I'm posting it more for the actual rowing part.
[breakingmuscle.com]



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A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: May 22, 2020 09:54AM
I've watched a bunch of videos to make sure I was doing it right. Ultimately, I'd have to film myself doing it to compare. But looking at this, [www.concept2.com] it seems that it is exactly what I'm doing.

I just don't feel it at lower rates. Not as much anyway. And I went back and looked and it seems I misspoke. I average around 30-32 spm and sprint for 39. I'll have to get my daughter up there and watch since she is the rower in the family.




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Re: Workout question. Two short or one longer?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 22, 2020 11:43AM
....real rower.....or 'take a picture to buy your way into a college' rower [ just kidding ]......????



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