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LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: Buck
Date: May 21, 2020 11:28AM
My trusted 2010 Chrysler T&C keeps on going. I never expected the LED to go out. It's located on the "spoiler" at the top of the back hatch.

I found a youtube video to replace it, but would it be the light itself? I can't find anything about a fuse for it.
[www.youtube.com]

This it probably near the top of my mechanic abilities.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: Ammo
Date: May 21, 2020 11:32AM
I had an LED turn signal light go out, but the dealer had to replace the whole assembly, not just the LED itself YMMV.



Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass

Until you make your unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate. - Carl Jung
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 21, 2020 11:36AM
.....so guess they can....brake down.......



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: May 21, 2020 11:37AM
Looking at the install video...by the time you got far enough in to test the wiring or light, it's just one more step to replace the lamp assembly. The aftermarket version of the part is about $25...I would go for it.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2020 11:37AM by Markintosh.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: May 21, 2020 11:58AM
It's going to be either the lamp (LED assembly), wiring, or a fuse.

A fuse would be the easiest thing to check.

As LEDs draw so little current, it's probably on a fuse circuit with other lights or items. This means were it a fuse, there would probably be something else not working. You'd want to check your owner's manual for the fuse and location.

If it checks out, there's the wiring or the lamp. The wiring would be tough to check without opening up the lamp assembly. It doesn't seem like there's any movement involved as wit lights mounted in a trunk lid or rear hatch, so I'd guess it's ok.

LEDs use an electronic driver which is the part of an LED assembly that gets warm to hot. It's not unusual for it to die. And LEDs aren't forever, just rated to last much longer than an incandescent.

If the fuse it good and I'd guess that it is, then I'd proceed as though the lamp was bad.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: freeradical
Date: May 21, 2020 12:19PM
Have these things been proven to do anything besides raise the price of a car?
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: May 21, 2020 12:34PM
Quote
freeradical
Have these things been proven to do anything besides raise the price of a car?

LEDs are brighter and more energy efficient than incandescent bulbs, last much longer and are available in a much wider variety of shapes and sizes, giving designers greater flexibility in their designs.



It is what it is.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: May 21, 2020 01:14PM
.....brake me off a piece of that.......????



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: AllGold
Date: May 21, 2020 02:16PM
If it's not a wiring problem or a blown fuse and turns out to be the light assembly... As already mentioned, the actual LED bulbs are probably fine, and the controller is what failed.



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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 21, 2020 02:44PM
LEDs use much less power. This should cut down on how much copper is used in the car and cut the cost of lighting.

I watched four videos and none of them said anything about why the original stopped working. Manufacturers hate stocking $0.20 semiconductor parts, so they make lights a single $25 assembly rather than being able to repair different parts.

One video used 12 V strip lights to replace the original electronics, this is a half step up from trailer trash repairs of using duct tape to hold on a fender after an accident. It would not be an issue if FCA had done this in the first place.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 21, 2020 02:48PM
Quote
freeradical
Have these things been proven to do anything besides raise the price of a car?

Why, yes, they are excellent at letting drivers know a car is braking.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: Carm
Date: May 21, 2020 02:59PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
freeradical
Have these things been proven to do anything besides raise the price of a car?

Why, yes, they are excellent at letting drivers know a car is braking.
smiley-laughing001

If that’s the only light out, it’s not a fuse, it’s the controller/power supply or the LED (could have controller inside)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2020 03:06PM by Carm.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: Buck
Date: May 21, 2020 03:40PM
Major update: Toolbox ready, tester ready with new battery, so I started by wiggling the light while my wife stepped on brake, and voila, the light came on. I wonder for how long, but I'll leave it for now.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: May 21, 2020 04:26PM
Have these things been proven to do anything besides raise the price of a car?

Yes.


Why, yes, they are excellent at letting drivers know a car is braking.

This.


LEDs are brighter and more energy efficient than incandescent bulbs, last much longer and are available in a much wider variety of shapes and sizes, giving designers greater flexibility in their designs.

And this is why LEDs replaced incandescents in the CHMSL.


the LED (could have controller inside)

Most often the controller is integrated in the assembly and is on the circuit board. It could be as basic as a resistor in series with a group of LEDs. It's almost certainly not something that could be easily user replaced.


The CHMSL was spawned from a deceleration warning light designed initially for motorcycles. This proved effective enough that it was added to the CA vehicle code (CVC) as authorized lighting for all vehicles.

After a subsequent study done with a single brake light mounted at the leading edge of the trunk of SF taxi cabs, the CHMSL was born, effectively killing the market for deceleration warning lights and being part of federal law.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Not to be *too* pedantic...
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: May 21, 2020 04:51PM
An LED is a semiconductor/diode device that operates at a very low and/or current. It either has two leads (anode and cathode) or is an SMD- or surface mounted device. The latter have no leads and is soldered directly to a circuit board trace.

They can be used to create a light assembly of any size and shape. Manufacturers generally use brighter LEDs and denser configurations that most of the cheap aftermarket LED strips.

It usually needs a current limiting resistor to keep it from destroying itself. Depending on the application, one resistor make control one LED or a series of them. Sometimes voltage regulation is include, usually for an array. Either of these is often referred to as a driver or controller, the latter especially if the LEDs do sequential tricks or color changes.

An LED bulb includes a base and current limiting resistor so as to operate as plug in play in a specific application. It can also be an assembly of LEDs and driver/controller.

As LEDs have a very narrow angle for radiating light, maximum efficiency require the reflector and lens be designed to work with them. Assemblies designed for incandescents don't illuminate as well with LED bulbs. This is part of the reason why a whole car tail or brake light assembly is replaced instead of just a bulb, and that's usually pricey.




When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

Perfection is the enemy of progress. -Winston Churchill

-An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

Mister, that's a ten-gallon hat on a twenty-gallon head.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: Buzz
Date: May 21, 2020 05:29PM
LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever

The only thing that really  lasts forever is the love for your kids....
==
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: fauch
Date: May 21, 2020 05:55PM
I'd definitely check the wiring before I replaced that. I have had these go out on many cars and the bulbs were fine...
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: May 22, 2020 12:00AM
Quote
Buck
Major update: Toolbox ready, tester ready with new battery, so I started by wiggling the light while my wife stepped on brake, and voila, the light came on. I wonder for how long, but I'll leave it for now.

So, a loose connections somewhere, then.



It is what it is.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: Thrift Store Scott
Date: May 23, 2020 07:13AM
Quote
RAMd®d
The CHMSL was spawned from a deceleration warning light designed initially for motorcycles. This proved effective enough that it was added to the CA vehicle code (CVC) as authorized lighting for all vehicles.

After a subsequent study done with a single brake light mounted at the leading edge of the trunk of SF taxi cabs, the CHMSL was born, effectively killing the market for deceleration warning lights and being part of federal law.

Some here may remember the testing of various additional brake light configurations in police cars in the early 1980s, with different municipalities installing one of several possible setups. The City of Birmingham had dual additional brake lights in the rear window about three feet apart, which I liked because they repeated the turn signals as well, but the single center-mounted one proved most effective.

Quote
fauch
I'd definitely check the wiring before I replaced that. I have had these go out on many cars and the bulbs were fine...

I've had to replace the bulb in the one in my Escort twice in ten years. It's a weird and relatively expensive bulb that I've never seen used on anything else. They come in a two pack, and of course I could only find the leftover bulb from the first time after I had bought and installed one from a second two pack.



Lie to me if you must, but don't lie to me and insult my intelligence in the same sentence.

Resist the Thought Police: George Orwell's book 1984 was meant as a warning, not an instruction manual.

"Political correctness is just intellectual colonialism and psychological fascism for the creation of thought crime" - Steve Hughes
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: May 23, 2020 02:13PM
What is a CHMSL?



It is what it is.
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: JoeH
Date: May 24, 2020 07:17PM
Center High Mount Stop Light
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Re: LED third brake light - I thought they lasted forever
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: May 24, 2020 11:59PM
OK.... exactly what I thought, but I never would have arrived at that acronym.



It is what it is.
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