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Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: June 02, 2020 08:40PM
This time we're talking eggs... these were delivered to me by Instacart, and unfortunately I didn't notice that, along with a few other items that I'm less worried about, they weren't in the same bags as with all the other stuff that required refrigeration ... so they sat out overnight.

Ordinarily, I might be adventurous, but most of the websites I've looked at say that, once the eggs are refrigerated, they have to stay that way. And having had salmonella once, I'm not sure I'd ever want to go through that again, but ... I'm curious what the forum expert(s) have to say. grinning smiley




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Acer
Date: June 02, 2020 08:47PM
I would not worry. If you have any concerns, just cook them thoroughly, rather than "dippy-do" as we say in these parts.
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: June 02, 2020 08:59PM
Since we're one of the only countries in the WORLD that refrigerate eggs, at all, ever... I wouldn't worry about it.
If there are any with cracks, ditch them. Keep the rest.



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: btfc
Date: June 02, 2020 09:03PM
(Link Deleted)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2020 10:39PM by btfc.
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 02, 2020 09:25PM
that's a link to hair loss shampoo. Anything you want to share with the class?



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Paul F.
Date: June 02, 2020 09:25PM
Quote
btfc
[www.medicaldaily.com]

Hair loss remedies have... what, exactly to do with whether to refrigerate eggs?



Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.

--

--

--
Eureka, CA
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: sekker
Date: June 02, 2020 09:28PM
Quote
Paul F.
Since we're one of the only countries in the WORLD that refrigerate eggs, at all, ever... I wouldn't worry about it.
If there are any with cracks, ditch them. Keep the rest.

Don’t tell my spouse. I cannot tell you the number of items that were safe at room temp in my youth (my family lived abroad) I now have to toss when left out a few hours...
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: June 02, 2020 10:01PM
I left some American store bought eggs on the counter because the fridge was full and I found two rotten ones. I don't remember how long they were there; at least a week.
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 02, 2020 10:08PM
Quote
Paul F.
Since we're one of the only countries in the WORLD that refrigerate eggs, at all, ever... I wouldn't worry about it.

We fridge eggs because our eggs are washed and abraded before they go to the supermarket.

This removes a natural antibacterial coating from the eggs. Without refrigeration, they turn into little white Petri dishes.



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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: June 02, 2020 10:12PM
Wow, are you really all sure about this??

Website after website (including stilltasty.com, which I think is pretty good) says it's a NO because of the fact that they were refrigerated to begin with, and then can grow bacteria at room temp.

[www.stilltasty.com]

"How long can raw eggs be left at room temperature? Bacteria grow rapidly at temperatures between 40°F and 140 °F; raw eggs should be discarded if left out for more than 2 hours at room temperature."

From the Egg Council (you'd think they know what they're talking about!):

[eggsafety.org]

"Marianne Gravely, who has been answering consumer food safety questions at the USDA for 27 years explains: 'Eggs shouldn’t be left at room temperature for more than two hours. There is no way to know if a shell egg is pathogen-free. Food poisoning bacteria don’t affect the taste, smell, or appearance of a food. You can’t tell if a chicken is infected with Salmonella, so any egg, whether it came from a grocery store, a farmers’ market, or from your neighbor’s backyard hens, could contain Salmonella.'"




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2020 10:13PM by PeterB.
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: btfc
Date: June 02, 2020 10:26PM
“ that's a link to hair loss shampoo.”

Sure is, sorry! I tried to link again, but it does the same thing. I’m only posting the below out of stubbornness.


“ Do Eggs Need To Be Refrigerated Or Can You Store Them At Room Temperature?
Sep 16, 2013 12:06 PM By Lizette Borreli @lizcelineb l.borreli@medicaldaily.com

The age-old debate of whether eggs need to be refrigerated or stored at room temperature has been cracked by British scientists. StaraBlazkova, CC BY-SA 3.0

There's a global divide on the age-old question as to whether eggs should be stored in the fridge or kept at room temperature: Americans generally tend to store their eggs in the refrigerator to increase shelf life and to prevent bacterial contamination. On the other hand, overseas, the British are the least likely people in Europe to store their eggs in the fridge, the Daily Mail reports. The disparity between the way in which Americans and the British store their eggs may be attributed to several factors, such as different marketing regulations from each country. To crack the egg age-old debate, the Daily Mail commissioned a scientific study to reveal which side is correct — “chill eggers” or “warm eggers.”

Why Americans Refrigerate Their Eggs

For Americans, storing eggs in the fridge isn't simply a matter of taste — it's done to prevent the spread of Salmonella. According to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), there are approximately 142,000 illnesses every year that are caused by consuming eggs contaminated with Salmonella. In the U.S., hens are not required to be vaccinated against Salmonella, with only one-third of farmers choosing to immunize their flocks.

Because of these immunization policies and practicies, it is imperative to keep eggs refrigerated.To minimize the risk of contamination and to extend shelf life, eggs should be stored in the case or carton in a refirgerator. If done so, they should last up to four to five weeks without a significant loss of quality, according to the American Egg Board.

Across the pond, on the other hand, British laws require that all egg hens be vaccinated for Salmonella. Since the UK eggs scare in 1988, the Department of Health has taken precautionary measures to prevent a Salmonella outbreak. The Salmonella National Control Programme (NCP) prevents egg operators and producers from marketing eggs infected with the bacteria or that have an “unknown health status” (in other words, not tested, according to the NCP standards). The same standards are in place in many European contries.

Nevertheless, Britons remain divided on whether to keep their eggs on the counter or store them in the fridge

Chill Eggers on the British Isle

Chill eggers strongly believe storing eggs at cooler temperatures will prevent Salmonella from multiplying. Chill eggers are also supported by Dr. Rosamund Baird and Dr. Janet Corry, two experts at Bristol University’s School of Veterinary Science who say that storing a contaminated egg at room temperature will only allow the bacteria to multiply.

Baird and Corry are aware that there are very few U.K.-produced eggs that contain Salmonella but their concern is rooted in the belief that “imported eggs are much more often positive for Salmonella.”

British Warm Eggers

Warm eggers in the UK are dumbfounded by the practice of storing eggs in the fridge. These advocates suggest that refrigerating eggs is useless in terms of safety and ruins their flavor, causing baking disasters, says the Daily Mail.

“A fresh, free-range egg should last beautifully at room temperature for at least a week,” said Tim Hayward, presenter of the Food Programme on BBC Radio 4 and restaurant columnist for the Financial Times. “The racks in the fridge door are the worst place to store eggs. The constant shaking thins the whites and the flavours of other foods can penetrate the shell."

Warm eggers stand their ground on the basis that supermarkets in continental Europe store their eggs at room temperature and not the fridge. In Europe, eggs are often sitting on an unrefrigerated shelf near the baking supplies. Eggs “should in general not be refrigerated before sale to the final consumer,” according to European Union (EU) law, Forbes reports. “Cold eggs left out at room temperature may become covered in condensation facilitating the growth of bacteria on the shell and probably their ingression into the egg,” reads the EU regulations.

The Resolution: Are Warm Eggs Safe?

To resolve the egg storage debate, the Daily Mail went to the West Yorkshire-based FoodTest Laboratories to compare Lion-branded British eggs bought from Tesco that were stored in the fridge to those that were kept at room temperature. FoodTest Laboratories provides government-approved laboratory analysis for the U.K. food and drink industry to observe the safety, quality, and legality of products.

One egg batch was kept at room temperature, generally between 68°F and 77°F, and the other was kept at typical fridge temperature at approximately 43°F. These samples were continuously tested for bacteria such as E. coli, Salmonella, and Listeria.

The results of the study showed that both batches of eggs were equally bacteria-free from the initial start of the study all the way to the end of the study — a span of two weeks. “There is no advantage in keeping the eggs refrigerated as opposed to storing them at ambient room temperature,” said Jay Tolley, the operations and quality manager at FoodTest.

The bottom line: because of the differences in hen vaccination policies, Americans are advised to store their eggs in the fridge, but Britons can rest assured that whichever storage method they choose is completely safe “



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2020 10:27PM by btfc.
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 02, 2020 10:44PM
[www.npr.org]

Why The U.S. Chills Its Eggs And Most Of The World Doesn't

So what's the deal with washing and refrigeration? Soon after eggs pop out of the chicken, American producers put them straight to a machine that shampoos them with soap and hot water. The steamy shower leaves the shells squeaky clean. But it also compromises them, by washing away a barely visible sheen that naturally envelops each egg.

"The egg is a marvel in terms of protecting itself, and one of the protections is this coating, which prevents them from being porous," says food writer Michael Ruhlman, author of Egg: A Culinary Exploration of the World's Most Versatile Ingredient.

The coating is like a little safety vest for the egg, keeping water and oxygen in and bad bacteria out. Washing can damage that layer and "increase the chances for bacterial invasion" into pores or hairline cracks in the shell, according to Yi Chen, a food scientist at Purdue University. So we spray eggs with oil to prevent bacteria from getting in, and refrigerate them to keep microorganisms at bay.

...In some European countries, egg-laying hens are vaccinated against salmonella. In the U.S., vaccination is not required, but eggs must be washed and refrigerated from farm to store, and producers must follow a host of other safety measures.

"They're different approaches to basically achieve the same result," says Vincent Guyonnet, a poultry veterinarian and scientific adviser to the International Egg Commission. "We don't have massive [food safety] issues on either side of the Atlantic. Both methods seem to work."

The important thing, he says, is to be consistent.

"Once you start refrigeration, you have to have it through the whole value chain, from farm to store. Because if you stop — if the eggs are cold and you put them in a warm environment — they're going to start sweating," says Guyonnet...



[ask.usda.gov]

What happens if eggs sweat?

After eggs are refrigerated, they need to remain in the refrigerator. A cold egg left out at room temperature can sweat (become wet on the outside), facilitating the growth of bacteria. Eggs should not be left out of the refrigerator more than 2 hours; 1 hour if the outside temperature is 90 °F (32.2 °F) or above.




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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: freeradical
Date: June 02, 2020 11:44PM
Time for some Carbonara.
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: pRICE cUBE
Date: June 02, 2020 11:58PM




Ways to improve web conference image and sound quality. [forums.macresource.com]


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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 03, 2020 03:36AM
I left a gallon of orange juice in the car trunk in 95º temps from Friday to Sunday. I then brought it into to the house refrigerated it and drank some, am I gonna die?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2020 03:37AM by RgrF.
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Michael
Date: June 03, 2020 05:19AM
My MIL used to leave the Thanksgiving turkey on the kitchen counter overnight and serve sandwiches the next day. She'd make sloppy joes and leave the stuff in the Crock Pot and reheat the next day. I did my best to, 1. not offend her and 2. not eat the stuff the next day. All of the children survived but one turned into a jerk. I blame the turkey!
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 03, 2020 06:23AM
Quote
RgrF
I left a gallon of orange juice in the car trunk in 95º temps from Friday to Sunday. I then brought it into to the house refrigerated it and drank some, am I gonna die?

you just made an all-in-one mimosa



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: June 03, 2020 09:29AM
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: dk62
Date: June 03, 2020 09:34AM
I am now living with someone from another part of the world, and she is leaving eggs out overnight from time to time (each box at least once), no bad consequences so far (I would say about 52 dozen consumed).
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 03, 2020 10:00AM
Quote
dk62
I am now living with someone from another part of the world, and she is leaving eggs out overnight from time to time (each box at least once), no bad consequences so far (I would say about 52 dozen consumed).

What Kardashians can tolerate may prove toxic to others.
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: btfc
Date: June 03, 2020 10:30AM
Quote
dk62
I am now living with someone from another part of the world, and she is leaving eggs out overnight from time to time (each box at least once), no bad consequences so far (I would say about 52 dozen consumed).


But do you still have your hair?? smiling smiley
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Grumpyguy
Date: June 03, 2020 11:00AM
when I was a teenager, we left eggs unrefrigerated at the grocery store. I think you are safe.



Bryan
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: JoeH
Date: June 03, 2020 12:25PM
Quote
Grumpyguy
when I was a teenager, we left eggs unrefrigerated at the grocery store. I think you are safe.

When you were a teenager eggs were handled differently here in the US. Now legal and regulatory requirements have all eggs sold in the US washed at the source before going into the distribution channels. Washing damages the normal coating on the exterior of the eggs, refrigeration is required at all steps in transport and sales. A store that leaves eggs out unrefrigerated will get shut down by health inspectors. Once home they also should stay refrigerated before use.

So this time he might be safe, but the next time a batch from somewhere else won't be fine after being out overnight.
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: June 03, 2020 01:09PM
When in doubt, throw it out.
Eggs are cheep.[sic]
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: PeterB
Date: June 03, 2020 01:25PM
Quote
S. Pupp
When in doubt, throw it out.
Eggs are cheep.[sic]

That's the direction I'm heading at the moment. You're talking maybe a $4 box of eggs versus the everlasting joy of Salmonella. And the problem is that even if you kill Salmonella by cooking, it's a nasty bug that produces toxins, etc., that might survive the cooking process. Just not worth it.

Truthfully, the U.S. should just do what the rest of the world does, and not wash the eggs to remove the coating, and then store/sell them at room temp. That of course would likely save everyone money (since you wouldn't need to wash/prep the eggs, nor store/transport them refrigerated), which I'm guessing is why we don't do it.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 03, 2020 06:05PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
S. Pupp
When in doubt, throw it out.
Eggs are cheep.[sic]

That's the direction I'm heading at the moment. You're talking maybe a $4 box of eggs versus the everlasting joy of Salmonella. And the problem is that even if you kill Salmonella by cooking, it's a nasty bug that produces toxins, etc., that might survive the cooking process. Just not worth it.

Truthfully, the U.S. should just do what the rest of the world does, and not wash the eggs to remove the coating, and then store/sell them at room temp. That of course would likely save everyone money (since you wouldn't need to wash/prep the eggs, nor store/transport them refrigerated), which I'm guessing is why we don't do it.

I'd still fridge my eggs. They last twice as long that way.

Same for bananas. They should be fridged. The whole Chiquita Banana "you should never put bananas in the refrigerator" thing was an ad campaign designed to encourage spoilage and sell more bananas. Bananas keep for weeks in the fridge, tho the skin will turn brown so they're not as attractive.



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Re: Paging Paul F.!
Posted by: DinerDave
Date: June 03, 2020 07:04PM
Back in the day, 1980's, I recall supermarkets would have displays of eggs in the middle of the dairy aisle, not refrigerated. I believe that stopped as consumers perceived that the eggs needed to be cold.
Had a conversation, also back in the day, when Massachusetts actually had a state egg inspector that would periodically inspect the eggs a t store level. They had a light to shine thru the looking for cracks.. In conversation we were talking about expiration codes, He stated that the eggs have a 6 week code on them for the consumer. If you keep the eggs cold, that will last 6 months. They are labeled 6 weeks because the consumer is afraid of code that goes that far out on "fresh" products. All that said, overnight at room temp should be fine.

Dave



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